Dreanaught (40K) question

[Imperial Overlord]

Genestealer cults still exist, they just don't have an army list.

Early era Orks were roughly human size. The really huge nobs and bosses came later. They were still built like strategically shaved gorillas though. A large number of Orks are still in the human size range, they just get bigger and stronger the more they fight. A Callidus isn't going to be able to pass as a Warboss, but would be able to pass as a comparative youngster.

[Black Admiral]

Presumably similar implants could be made for an ork on a suitably sized human. Remember also this comes from an era when orks weren't the lumbering hulks they are now, but far smaller.

Why are they larger?

I think it really depends on the Ork. Far as I know, the average height of your standard Ork is about that of a tall bloke, so around six feet tall or so - would be taller if they stood fully upright rather than hunched over - and nearly as broad across the shoulders. Of course, there are larger examples; per Gunheads, the Orks inhabiting the planet Golgotha are larger and stronger than the norm, and then there's the Dreadnought-sized warbosses, like Ghazgkhull Thraka, or Urzog Mag Kull (second-in-command of the horde that hit and nearly destroyed the Crimson Fists).

[Elheru Aran]

Whiskey144: Sure you don't mean Nemesis, rather than Flight of the Eisenstein? As I recall, the Assassins didn't appear in Eisenstein...

I see no reason an Assassin or anybody else couldn't operate a Dreadnought, as observed it's mainly a matter of fitting them into a sarcophagus and then sticking said sarc' into the chassis.

The main issue is how they get the chassis in the first place, and how honestly useful it would be to them. Presumably they're optimized for Space Marine use, and I don't find it inconceivable that, for example, an Iron Snakes Dreadnought may operate with an Ithakan language interface rather than Gothic.

Speaking of which, do they in fact still manufacture Dreadnought chassis, or is it another 'lost tech' bullshit like the Terminator armours? Considering the case of the Arcadius ancestor, I imagine it's possible...

[Black Admiral]

As far as I'm aware, modern Dreadnought chassis and the modern marks of Terminator armour are well within the Imperium's capabilities to replicate. Which is hardly surprising; the rate at which those tend to be lost would be unsustainable if as is sometimes asserted they can't be reproduced.

(certainly, the Wolves don't seem to've been inconvenienced by the destruction of 2/3rds of the Dreadnoughts they had at the time during the Thousand Sons' attack on the Fang in M32)

[Kojiro]

Genestealer cults still exist, they just don't have an army list.

Well they damn well should. I loved those fat old 'stealers.

Early era Orks were roughly human size. The really huge nobs and bosses came later. They were still built like strategically shaved gorillas though. A large number of Orks are still in the human size range, they just get bigger and stronger the more they fight. A Callidus isn't going to be able to pass as a Warboss, but would be able to pass as a comparative youngster.

It's the 'really huge nobz and bosses' I dislike. It smacks of 'we don't know how to be creative so we'll make it bigger!' to me. GW had such and amazing IP and it's slowly being eroded into the lastest whizzbang codex of powah.

[Simon_Jester]

I don't know; I think the way size increases as a function of combat experience and success in lording it over other orks, and authority within ork society increases as a function of size, is a very consistent part of the orks' style. They're supposed to be an exceedingly warlike and belligerent race, how else are they going to do it?

[Whiskey144]

Whiskey144: Sure you don't mean Nemesis, rather than Flight of the Eisenstein? As I recall, the Assassins didn't appear in Eisenstein...

Ah crap. I got the two mixed up; Nemesis is the novel I meant to be referring to, not Eisenstein.

[Kojiro]

I don't know; I think the way size increases as a function of combat experience and success in lording it over other orks, and authority within ork society increases as a function of size, is a very consistent part of the orks' style. They're supposed to be an exceedingly warlike and belligerent race, how else are they going to do it?

It's consistent with their current style yes. Now they're a bunch of psychically powered reality warping mushrooms yes. I know this isn't a recent change, it's just one I loathe particularly badly. The old Orks of 'Ere We Go and Waargh the Orks were better all round, in my opinion.

[Simon_Jester]

I don't know; I think the way size increases as a function of combat experience and success in lording it over other orks, and authority within ork society increases as a function of size, is a very consistent part of the orks' style. They're supposed to be an exceedingly warlike and belligerent race, how else are they going to do it?

It's consistent with their current style yes. Now they're a bunch of psychically powered reality warping mushrooms yes. I know this isn't a recent change, it's just one I loathe particularly badly. The old Orks of 'Ere We Go and Waargh the Orks were better all round, in my opinion.

Ah, I'm sorry; I didn't get into the fluff until relatively recently. Could you expand on what you mean at greater length, for the benefit of the nongrognards in the audience?

[Purple]

I don't know; I think the way size increases as a function of combat experience and success in lording it over other orks, and authority within ork society increases as a function of size, is a very consistent part of the orks' style. They're supposed to be an exceedingly warlike and belligerent race, how else are they going to do it?

It's consistent with their current style yes. Now they're a bunch of psychically powered reality warping mushrooms yes. I know this isn't a recent change, it's just one I loathe particularly badly. The old Orks of 'Ere We Go and Waargh the Orks were better all round, in my opinion.

Ah, I'm sorry; I didn't get into the fluff until relatively recently. Could you expand on what you mean at greater length, for the benefit of the nongrognards in the audience?

Well, in lay mans terms (and if I recall correctly) the orks of the Rogue Trader days were not the genetically engineered super warrior race that they are today. Instead, they were more like rather brutish football hooligans built like rugby players who get drunk and go out to bash some heads in for lolz.

[Simon_Jester]

In and of itself, this is not incompatible with rule by biggest and most testosterone-poisoned ork.

[andrewgpaul]

Actually, per the original "Ork trilogy" (Waaargh! The Orks, 'Ere We Go and Freebooterz), the Orks were "genetically engineered killing machines". The concept of the Brain Boyz was introduced here - basically, an ancient race created the Gretchin as the servant caste and the Orks as the warriors. Then, a galaxy-wide plague wiped out the fungus that was vital to their intelligence, and they devolved, their empire being taken over by the Orks. The devolved remnants of what once were the ruling Brain Boyz are now the Snotlings. As for "psychically powered reality warping mushrooms", again, that's all in the RT-era sourcebooks. The Orks have symbiotic algae and fungus in their skin - resulting in the leathery green hide. The details may have changed, but the idea was there almost from the start. The only thing added later on in 3rd edition was that Orks reproduce by sporing; in the RT books, Orks of a certain age go off into the wilderness to become feral and reproduce . The resultant offspring wander around in the wilderness for a while, forming primitive warbands, until discovered by a settlement and introduced to the ways of Orky "Kultur".

Oh, and one other obvious change is that Orks now look like extras from Mad Max, not ramshackle Nazis.

[Ahriman238]

Isn't there a Daemonhunter army Inquisitor who rides around in a rig that's pretty much a Dreadnaught with the sarcophagus replaced with a marble throne?

[Tritio]

Read Diary of a Space Marine. It will answer all your WH40k questions.

Day 22

I think that this is the real reason marines turn to Chaos. They aren't known for having lots of paper work.

Day23

Turns out there are fewer letters than we thought. Some idiot buried a Dread. It's the only time they can be stealthy.

[andrewgpaul]

Isn't there a Daemonhunter army Inquisitor who rides around in a rig that's pretty much a Dreadnaught with the sarcophagus replaced with a marble throne?

Yes, Inquisitor Karamazov.

[Elheru Aran]

Isn't there a Daemonhunter army Inquisitor who rides around in a rig that's pretty much a Dreadnaught with the sarcophagus replaced with a marble throne?

There are a number of these; a Witch Hunter has one, as well, IIRC. The point of them is basically to go "look, your judge is here, now cower and tremble!". Protection is not as good as a proper Dreadnought, as they tend to use shields rather than armour. Could say the same about the Penitent Engines, too...

[Ahriman238]

There are a number of these; a Witch Hunter has one, as well, IIRC. The point of them is basically to go "look, your judge is here, now cower and tremble!". Protection is not as good as a proper Dreadnought, as they tend to use shields rather than armour. Could say the same about the Penitent Engines, too...

And the new DreadKnight. At least a space marine is already wearing armor...

[Andras]

In the old red cover 40K Compendium for Rogue Trader you could build a 'piloted' dreadnought that had a cockpit that one sat in and ran the 'nought (PS- buy the pilot a rad suit!). If you paid for the upgrade to 'wired-in' it got better stats.