Accurate portrayals of the Ptolemies

[Setzer]

It seems every movie, TV show, or video game I've seen shows the Ptolemies having the exact same design aesthetic as extras from the Mummy Returns. Is there any popular culture source out there which shows Hellenistic Egypt as, well, Hellenist?

[TC Pilot]

The movie "Alexander," I suppose.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Rome dialled down the stereotypical ancient-Egyptian aesthetic a little bit. It's still obviously Egypt, but the kohl is used in moderation.

[fgalkin]

It seems every movie, TV show, or video game I've seen shows the Ptolemies having the exact same design aesthetic as extras from the Mummy Returns. Is there any popular culture source out there which shows Hellenistic Egypt as, well, Hellenist?

Elizabeth Taylor's Cleopatra?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Big Orange]

In both Cleopatra and Rome, why did the guards/soldiers directly serving the Ptolemaic Dynasty look more similar to the Egyptian warriors from the New Kingdom and less like the soldiers from contemporary powers around the 3rd to 1st century BC that the Ptolemies often interacted with, such as the Seleucid Dynasty and Roman Republic? The Ptolemaic Kingdom routinely hired Gallic mercenaries and the Hellenistic armies around the Eastern Mediterranean also adopted a Gallic derived shield known as the thureos (related to Rome's much more iconic scutum).

Alexandria (here's a map) had meticulous grid street planning, warehouses and artificial harbours, with the Ptolemaic palace compound itself having a curious mixture of Hellenistic and Egypt architecture (judging from the statues and such being dredged up from the sea). The temples to native Egyptian relgious sects that survived the Persian occupation must've been still relevant if they were exempt from Ptolemaic tax.

[Carinthium]

Query out of curiousity- what elements of Egypt under the Ptolemies made it stand out from the perspective of other civilisations of the time? How much of a difference would a traveller to the area notice?

[Elheru Aran]

Mostly their claim to being the latest heirs of a kingdom that was honestly millennia old at the time. Sort of like how Britain is seen in some circles-- the oldest country that was still kickin' around. Not only that, it was also a remnant of Alexander the Great's empire; we're talking about a dude who was being worshipped as a god in places, there's a definite cachet of elitism going on there. Not only were they heirs to the glories of ancient Egypt, they were also heirs to the supposed high point of Greek dominion over the world, the Seleucids and other post-Alexandrian rulers being gone by the time Rome showed up on the world scene.

That, and while its military power had declined considerably, it was still considered a power in the Mediterranean alongside Carthage and later Rome.

[Big Orange]

Not only were they heirs to the glories of ancient Egypt, they were also heirs to the supposed high point of Greek dominion over the world, the Seleucids and other post-Alexandrian rulers being gone by the time Rome showed up on the world scene.

The Seleucid Dynasty under King Antiochus the 3rd reached its maximum extent in the Near East by the 2nd century BC and had a larger land empire than the Roman Republic did at the time when Rome had become more than a local power when it defeated Hannibal and was expanding into the Eastern Mediterranean region. The Seleucids and Romans fought each other from 192 to 189 BC, with the Roman navy tipping the balance and Ptolemaic Egypt fighting as an ally of Rome. After that the Seleucid Empire went into a steady decline for the rest of the 2nd century BC (its territory rolled up like a carpet by the Parthians from Iran) and then rendered totally defunct by 64 BC.

Ptolemaic Egypt remained an economic prize, but in that period of Seleucid decline and Roman ascendancy, the political automony and military potency of Ptolemaic Egypt was slowly eroded and the Ptolemaic Dynasty was also rendered defunct around 30 BC with the establishment of the Roman Principate. Although shortly before that it must've been a big enough power base for Mark Anthony to launch major campaigns against the Parthian Empire and his rival, Octavian/Augustus.

[Elheru Aran]

Thank you for the correction... I'm weak on my history between the two periods of Alexander and Rome, and honestly there's not much out there on the Seleucids. So for the education, thank you...

[Big Orange]

Here's an image of what could be Greco-Gallic mercenaries serving the Ptolemaic regime in the famous Nile mosaic of Palestrina from around 100 BC:



They look similar to Roman legionaries (if they were not intended to be legionaries). Either way it's a far cry from what the Ptolemaic soldiers looked like in Cleopatra and Rome.

[Elheru Aran]

Based upon the scorpion logo on those shields, weren't those identified as Praetorian Guard by... hold on, lemme grab my source... Dr. Boris Rankov, in Osprey Military "Elite Series" #50, 'Praetorian Guard', page 19? He specifically refers to the monument of M. Pompeius Asper, a sestertius coin of Caligula addressing the Praetorians, and motifs on the helmets of Praetorians on the Trajan Column frieze as corrobating evidence.

Of course, those troopers could be other soldiers using a scorpion emblem. Wikipedia does suggest that the Barberini Palestrina mosaic may date from the time of Sulla, which would definitely be pre-Praetorian...

[Big Orange]

Although taken with a pinch of salt, artist's impressions of Praetorians often show some of them bearing shields with four scorpions embellished on them, although like cherubs, lions, celestial bodies and birds of prey, scorpions would've doubtlessly been used as emblems in other Near Eastern factions outside of the Romans.

One reason why the Ptolemies was the last major Hellenistic nation state standing before the rise of the Principate is firstly because Ptolemy II signed a treaty of friendship with Rome as early as 273 BC when Rome was a comparative backwater in relation to the realms of the Ptolemies and Seleucids, so leading to strong geo-political alliances from there, and secondly because the Hellenistic monarchs and warlords in Macedonia were obviously in a more direct position to unwisely provoke the Roman Republic.