Galactic Federation (Metroid) vs. Galactic Empire

[ChosenOne54]

This is a battle that has been on my mind for quite a while recently. It pits the Galactic Federation, from the Metroid series, against the Galactic Empire, from Star Wars (obviously). Now, we don't know too much about the GFed from Metroid I will admit, but what we do know portrays them as a pretty powerful organization.

Things we know:
-They are a large organization, encompassing ~140,000 member systems (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Galactic_Federation ; bottom of page)
-They have FTL speeds fast enough to travel to other galaxies in a matter of months (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Tetra_Galaxy)
-They have bombs capable of vaporizing planets. Said bombs are equipped on their space stations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ErIS8cDIA#t=4m5s)
-They have an unhealthy obsession with bio-weapons, such as Metroids
-They constantly employ the use of bounty hunters, such as Samus Aran
-Certain Metroid handheld weapons operate in the terawatt range (http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Volt_Driver)

So, what I want to know is how well they fare in a fight against the Galactic Empire. Win, loss, tie?

[ChosenOne54]

Any takers?

[Batman]

Not without a fuckton more of information.
1. 140,000 member systems. Doesn't tell us beans without knowing their Tech level or industrial capacity.
2. Travel to another galaxy in a matter of months. Doesn't tell us beans without knowing the distances involved.
3. I very much suspect those visuals are incompatible with brute force vaporization, but even if they are, planetary (or even theater) shields are bound to be a problem for deploying that.
4. Wattage doesn't tell us beans about actual firepower without a time figure. 1 TW for a billionth of a second gives us all of a KJ. Not particularly impressive even by modern day standards, leave alone compared to Wars.
5. Do they have shields, and if so, how do they work and what's their resilience?
6. How does their armour compare? What's their ship firepower? STL acceleration/FTL speed? Do they have FTL sensors, and if so, what's their performance?

And that's only the tip of the iceberg. With the information given by you, the only possible answer is 'insufficient data'.

Well, technically, that's a lie, there's an infinite number of possible answers, but the one most accurately answering the actual question would be 'insufficient data'.

[ChosenOne54]

Well, for the fleets, here is some info:
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Federation_Fleet

Not much, I know.

[Batman]

More like 'nothing whatsoever'. That link doesn't give us anything. Nevermind reactor output, firepower, defense resilience, acceleration etc, it doesn't even give ship dimensions. This provides exactly zero useful information.

[ChosenOne54]

So... inconclusive I guess.

[Batman]

I'm afraid so.

[ChosenOne54]

Against the UFP from Star Trek would it be any different? I mean, still not a lot of information, but right off the bat the Galactic Federation outnumbers the UFP by almost a thousand times (150 systems vs. 140 000 systems).

[Batman]

Firepower? Stardrive speed? STL performance? Defense resilience? Industrial capacity? Population base? 140,000 systems doesn't tell us anything besides that there's...140,000 systems. Is it 140,000 agrarian backwater colonies a la Firefly, is it 140,000 equipped with high tech but negligible population base colonies a la TNG, is it Wars level backwaters like Tattooine, is it Wars level Core Worlds?

[ChosenOne54]

Well, no accurate estimates on firepower, except for possible planet busting bombs. I think I read also that Metroid handheld weapons, being in the terawatt range, release several gigajoules of energy per shot, but I don't have the link handy... either way, Metroid ship-to-ship weapons are likely to be far superior to their grounds weapons, especially when you consider things like this:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... T04_17.jpg

It is Space pirate technology, not Galactic Federation tech, but basically it is a ship almost the size of a moon, which can consume entire planets at a time by generating micro black holes.

There's also this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUAeGySUTm4#t=2m

That space station is at least several kilometres long.

And this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwR1MO_O9oE#t=2m28s

The planetary defense beam vaporized that leviathan seed (again, several kilometres long), which previously tanked an entire fleets worth of firepower. No accurate numbers though.

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Galactic_Federation
Well for industrial might and population, they apparently have interstellar traffic numbering in the thousands.

In regards to the 140 000 systems, the source said 'permanent member systems,' so I doubt they are simple colonies.

[Srelex]

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... T04_17.jpg

It is Space pirate technology, not Galactic Federation tech, but basically it is a ship almost the size of a moon, which can consume entire planets at a time by generating micro black holes.

If it's not GF, why is it factoring in here at all?

There's also this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUAeGySUTm4#t=2m

That space station is at least several kilometres long.

It's an obvious chain reaction. Even then, without knowing things like the mass of the station, it's meaningless.

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Galactic_Federation
Well for industrial might and population, they apparently have interstellar traffic numbering in the thousands.

Which is a fraction of what would come in and out of Coruscant in a single day.

In regards to the 140 000 systems, the source said 'permanent member systems,' so I doubt they are simple colonies.

Said quote still means nothing at all. You're grasping at straws here.

[ChosenOne54]

If it's not GF, why is it factoring in here at all?

Well, the GF managed to destroy it (somehow, not explained).

Which is a fraction of what would come in and out of Coruscant in a single day.

Oh, I thought the debate was switched to GF vs. UFP.

Said quote still means nothing at all. You're grasping at straws here.

It means they have ~140 000 solar systems. We get a glimpse of one solar system in Corruption, and it has a fairly well equipped fleet defending it.

[avatarxprime]

It means they have ~140 000 solar systems. We get a glimpse of one solar system in Corruption, and it has a fairly well equipped fleet defending it.

Yes but we have no idea if that is indicative of all the systems in the GF. Take for example Naboo and Coruscant, both are systems in the Old Republic/Empire yet they are incredibly different as far as level of industrialization goes. Or, if you want to remain with the UFP, take a look at the Betazoid system (pretty much just the planet) vs Sol, with Earth, which just so happens to have one of the few shipyards in the entire Federation. Obviously not every system is uniformly developed.

Take a gander at this thread for some attempts at quantification of the Metroid-verse. It deals with just Samus (more or less), but you can get an idea from there. Samus' equipment is pretty much the high end for the Metroid universe just by her lonesome. Well, high end for single fighter type weaponry.

[ChosenOne54]

Hm, kiloton level super missiles. That's pretty impressive, for handheld weapons. Ship weapons are likely much higher, but, again, no exact numbers.

I'd just like to point out that by Fusion, the Galactic Federation was able to pretty much recreate Samus' power and Varia suit, as well as Plasma and Ice beam, missiles, super missiles, ice and diffusion missiles, and power bombs.

[Batman]

Which tells us-nothing, essentially, without knowing the numbers. And while KT level infantry weapons are certainly not something we ever see the UFP deploy, given that a 1KT photon grenade would require all of 10 milligrams of M/AM I'm not at all sure that the absence of those is due to technological limitations rather than the perfectly sensible aspect of 'what the hell would they need those for?' given that nobody in Trek seems to have ground forces worth mentioning.

So far, the situation remains unchanged, regardless whether it is vs the UFP, the Wars Empire, B5, or even modern day Earth-we essentially know nothing quantifiable about the Metroid universe, at least as presented in the links you provided.

[ChosenOne54]

If the Metroid universe has kiloton level handheld weapons, I think it stands to reason that Metroid ship-to-ship weaponry is far more powerful. Kiloton level handheld weaponry in Metroid seemingly does not damage fighters or other ships on the interior or exterior at all. At the same time, Metroid ship weaponry can destroy barriers and turrets that your handheld wepaons can't even touch (which is probably to be expected).

Like so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmU7uztsITo

We actually probably do have more information than I'm posting, but it's hard to summarize that or find and explain it all to somebody who hasn't played most of the games.

Unless you HAVE played some of the Metroid games. Have you?

EDIT: That video also gives a glimpse of the planetary energy shield protecting the Pirate homeworld, suggesting that Metroid DOES have planetary defense shields.

[Batman]

If the Metroid universe has kiloton level handheld weapons, I think it stands to reason that Metroid ship-to-ship weaponry is far more powerful.

That would be the logical conclusion if we were talking about something happening in the real world. Unfortunately, we're talking about a computer game series. So, actual numbers on ship firepower?

Kiloton level handheld weaponry in Metroid seemingly does not damage fighters or other ships on the interior or exterior at all. At the same time, Metroid ship weaponry can destroy barriers and turrets that your handheld weapons can't even touch (which is probably to be expected).

Which, unfortunately, doesn't tell us much of anything other than ship weapons can hurt targets hand weapons can not.

We actually probably do have more information than I'm posting, but it's hard to summarize that or find it all to somebody who hasn't played most of the games.
Unless you HAVE played some of the Metroid games. Have you?

Not that I can remember at any rate. Irrelevant as providing the important information on the Metroid side of the debate is your job.

EDIT: That video also gives a glimpse of the planetary energy shield protecting the Pirate homeworld, suggesting that Metroid DOES have planetary defense shields.

Of completely undetermined resilience, but, yes, that answers my question of wether or not Metroid has shields to begin with, so thank you.

[ChosenOne54]

That would be the logical conclusion if we were talking about something happening in the real world. Unfortunately, we're talking about a computer game series. So, actual numbers on ship firepower?

Which, unfortunately, doesn't tell us much of anything other than ship weapons can hurt targets hand weapons can not.

Well, all we know is that they ramp up pretty quickly.

Basic fighters and capital ships/frigates are totally unharmed by hand weapons (which have a couple kilotons of punch behind them).
Capital ships, are pretty much unharmed by fighters.
A GF Frigate got one-shotted by a Space Pirate Destroyer, but the Olympus (the GF’s biggest ship) took relatively little damage from extended bombardments from multiple Destroyers and they have a decent rate of fire too.
Then the GF’s orbatial defense system wiped out the Leviathan (that tanked the firepower of an entire fleet) in a single shot, and it was a continuous beam.

At any rate, the GF still has a speed and numbers advantage. Even if 1/100th of the Galactic Federation's 140 000 solar systems had a fleet, they would still outnumber the UFP's 150 systems. And doesn't it take the UFP DECADES to cross a single galaxy?

[Batman]

That would be the logical conclusion if we were talking about something happening in the real world. Unfortunately, we're talking about a computer game series. So, actual numbers on ship firepower?

Which, unfortunately, doesn't tell us much of anything other than ship weapons can hurt targets hand weapons can not.

Well, all we know is that they ramp up pretty quickly.
Basic fighters and capital ships/frigates are totally unharmed by hand weapons (which have a couple kilotons of punch behind them).

Which, at best, means they're unharmed by single figure KT weapons.

Capital ships, are pretty much unharmed by fighters.

Which means they're unharmed by weapons somewhere above single figure KT.

A GF Frigate got one-shotted by a Space Pirate Destroyer, but the Olympus (the GF’s biggest ship) took relatively little damage from extended bombardments from multiple Destroyers and they have a decent rate of fire too.

Which in turn doesn't tell us all that much other than it being above single-figure KT range.

At any rate, the GF still has a speed and numbers advantage. Even if 1/100th of the Galactic Federation's 140 000 solar systems had a fleet, they would still outnumber the UFP's 150 systems. And doesn't it take the UFP DECADES to cross a single galaxy?

No. It took VOY with no resources other than the ones they could scrounge locally decades to do so. Peak Warp drive could have them cross the Milky Way in under a decade.
Your evidence for ANYBODY in the GF having any fleets worth mentioning, I'm afraid, is so far completely absent. As are any firepower, shield (if applicable) resilience or speed figures.

[ChosenOne54]

Right, so we pretty much just ran into a wall in terms of information.

Again, inconclusive I guess.

Though traveling across a single galaxy in under a decade doesn't seem as impressive as traveling to another galaxy in under six months.

[Batman]

Traveling to another galaxy in a universe modeled on the real world certainly would be. Heck, getting to the Magellanic Clouds would take several years at what peak Warp seems to amount to. Unfortunately, at least so far, we have no clue what distances were actually involved.

[ChosenOne54]

Metroid takes place in the Milky Way. But even if the Tetra galaxy was literally right next to the milky way, and assuming it's the same diameter, that's still 200 000 light years crossed in less than 6 months.

[Batman]

30,000, actually. Earth is nowhere near the center of the Milky Way and if we assume those two galaxies actually are next to each other reaching it merely means getting to its outer fringes. 200,000ly means they'd have to traverse the entire with of both galaxies (and blithely assumes Tetra is the same size as the Milky Way). How about no? Evidence for the distances involved.

[ChosenOne54]

How long would it take the UFP to cross 30 000 light years?

And the tetra galaxy probably isn't right next to the milky way anyway, that was just as an example.

[Batman]

So how far away is the Tetra galaxy?