Phasers vs. Vader

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-02-28 03:41am

Sea Skimmer wrote:No need for the novel. In the movie we see a great many fist sized chunks blown out of the Death Star walls. Not to mention equipment being destroyed and one Stormtrooper killed by a hit on the wall behind his neck.

Twas a detention guard, not a stormtrooper. Although I'm pretty sure you probably knew that, just mixed them up, I don't want anybody jumping the gun saying "Aha! So shrapnel can penetrate stormie armor!"

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-28 04:12am

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Howedar wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Using the Force, however, Vader would be able to absorb the beam and deflect it.
Have we ever seen Vader block anything but Solo's shot? I'm not saying that its not possible, but I think its a bit hasty to wave your hand and just say that Vader would deflect it.
Well it's hardly a large leap in logic, consider:
1) A phaser beam has been described as particle beam(nadions), a blaster is a particle beam of sorts
2) Both distinctly travel at sub c velocites, at shorter ranges phasers are a bit faster

So there's not that much of a difference here.

Well, I should have said "would probably be able to", but I digress.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-02-28 04:34am

Yeah well, we understand, translation difficulties, it's probably not easy to translate from Dolphin to English

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-28 05:50am

Stas Bush wrote:Vader's metallic hand has nothing to do with the ability to deflect shots, IMHO. Luke's hand did not deflect the blast at Jabba's. So Vader did it with the Force. He took no damage whatsoever.
And, while phasers are no good against metal (thanks for pointing that out!), blasters ARE good In AHN novel, which is canon, blaster shots make pieces of melted metal fly over Luke and Leia's heads.

Actually it depends on the metal. Phasers don't work well against dense metals, however they are NOT useless against dense metals. The only material they are useless against are those made of neutronium.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-02-28 08:55am

Kamakazie Sith

Phasers don't work well against dense metals, however they are NOT useless against dense metals. The only material they are useless against are those made of neutronium.

Well, they are not absolutely useless agains metal, I just said "no good".
But still, Vader's ability to deflect the shot had nothing or little to do with his metal hands. They would be blasted like Luke's arm was. Also Solo shot not once (so we can say Vader was lucky).

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-28 11:12am

Stas Bush wrote:Vader's metallic hand has nothing to do with the ability to deflect shots, IMHO. Luke's hand did not deflect the blast at Jabba's. So Vader did it with the Force. He took no damage whatsoever.

I wasn't talking about Vader deflecting blaster bolts. I was simply pointing out that phasers have almost no effect on metal. Blasters weren't even part of my argument. Of COURSE Vader used the force to deflect the blaster bolts. I was simply pointing out that because phasers have extremely low effects on metal, it would be MUCH EASIER for Vader to shrug off a phaser than a blaster, and that BECAUSE of phaser's extremely limited effectiveness against metal, the force might not even be necessary.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2003-02-28 08:20pm

A metal pot was vaporised in ST:6

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2003-02-28 08:21pm

And by vaporised, I mean disintegerated ST style, not literally vaporised.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-28 08:38pm

Yeah, but that was just a cooking pot.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-28 08:43pm

Stas Bush wrote:Kamakazie Sith
Phasers don't work well against dense metals, however they are NOT useless against dense metals. The only material they are useless against are those made of neutronium.
Well, they are not absolutely useless agains metal, I just said "no good".
But still, Vader's ability to deflect the shot had nothing or little to do with his metal hands. They would be blasted like Luke's arm was. Also Solo shot not once (so we can say Vader was lucky).

What does "no good" mean in your vocabulary? No good to me means that it's not effective, but phasers are effective against metals. The only material that they have been stated to be ineffective against is neutronium.

BTW Vader was not by any stretch of the imagination lucky. Solo, Chewie, and Leia were lucky. They were lucky that Vader had other plans for them instead of death.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-28 08:47pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:Vader's metallic hand has nothing to do with the ability to deflect shots, IMHO. Luke's hand did not deflect the blast at Jabba's. So Vader did it with the Force. He took no damage whatsoever.
I wasn't talking about Vader deflecting blaster bolts. I was simply pointing out that phasers have almost no effect on metal. Blasters weren't even part of my argument. Of COURSE Vader used the force to deflect the blaster bolts. I was simply pointing out that because phasers have extremely low effects on metal, it would be MUCH EASIER for Vader to shrug off a phaser than a blaster, and that BECAUSE of phaser's extremely limited effectiveness against metal, the force might not even be necessary.

Could you name those episodes that phasers have had almost no effect on metal?

This is of course assuming that both parties were trying to kill each other. IE stun setting doesn't count.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-28 09:12pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Could you name those episodes that phasers have had almost no effect on metal?

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... Beam1.html

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-02-28 09:52pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Yeah, but that was just a cooking pot.

I dare say that a cooking pot is better armor than a vinyl glove.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-28 09:55pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:Could you name those episodes that phasers have had almost no effect on metal?
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... Beam1.html

Ahh I see....you were trying to say phasers aren't as effective against metals as they are against rock.

The page you showed and the episodes it mentions clearly show phasers are effective against metals....just not anywhere near as effective as they are against rock. Agreed?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-28 10:02pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:What does "no good" mean in your vocabulary? No good to me means that it's not effective, but phasers are effective against metals. The only material that they have been stated to be ineffective against is neutronium.

Magnesite can cause serious problems too.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-02-28 10:08pm

I'm sure there's plenty of episodes of Trek where phasers have struck the walls of the Enterprise (or DS9, or Voyager) and, aside a shower of sparks, have done no damage. Also, the metal crates our heroes are always ducking behind to avoid fire seems to absorb the beam well. One would imagine if a phaser had the power to blow through them they would, and then shoot their victims, but alas it isn't so. We can therefor conclude that hand phasers do relativley poorly against metals.

But that is all beside the point. I already said that Vader's glove would be far too thin to be able to absorb a phaser blast. And Vader was using the Force to deflect the bolts anyways, not the metal of his hand.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-28 10:09pm

Darth Servo wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:What does "no good" mean in your vocabulary? No good to me means that it's not effective, but phasers are effective against metals. The only material that they have been stated to be ineffective against is neutronium.
Magnesite can cause serious problems too.

Yes, but that could have been because the phasers were specifically setup for a specifc job.

And the whole frequency thing is ridiculous.......

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-28 10:21pm

Howedar wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Yeah, but that was just a cooking pot.
I dare say that a cooking pot is better armor than a vinyl glove.

That wasn't my argument.

What I meant was that I doubt that the use of a phaser to vapourise an ordinary steel cooking pot is hardly demonstrative of a strengh against metals.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-28 11:18pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Howedar wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Yeah, but that was just a cooking pot.
I dare say that a cooking pot is better armor than a vinyl glove.
That wasn't my argument.

What I meant was that I doubt that the use of a phaser to vapourise an ordinary steel cooking pot is hardly demonstrative of a strengh against metals.

Would vaporizing a pickup truck be a good demonstration? IIRC I think phaser did that in one of Voyagers time travel episodes.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-02-28 11:24pm

Well "thinking" it might have isn't really what I'm looking for. Have a name in paticular? That would help.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-28 11:44pm

Was it by any chance, Future's End?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-03-01 12:30am

neoolong wrote:Was it by any chance, Future's End?

Yeah that's the episode. However, it was not a phaser but a 29th Century weapon.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-03-01 01:00am

No, Paris fired a shuttle's phaser against a semi and NDF'd it.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-01 01:15am

Howedar wrote:No, Paris fired a shuttle's phaser against a semi and NDF'd it.

From Future's End? I remember the part Kamakazie Sith is talking about, and it was a 29th century type weapon that vaporized the vehicle Paris was hiding behind.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-03-01 02:02am

In one of the idiotic Voyager time travel episodes, a shuttle from Voyager fires on a semi and NDF's it.

I thought...