ADHD and Caffeine -

[Chardok]

Hi ebbydibby - so, when I was very young, I was diagnosed with what was then simply called "hey - your kid is hyperactive." (now known as ADHD) I had littler to no impulse control, was unfocused and generally a nuisance in school, unable to concentrate on an activity that I didn't find constantly engaging and stimulating (i.e. not video games or something like them) jumping off of things, running into the middle of the street with reckless abandon (one time, my mom apparently managed to snag my collar and jerk me back onto the sidewalk just as a car I failed to notice flew by.)

Anyhooz - Ritalin was promptly shoved down my gullet and I responded almost immediately and dramtically. my behavior in school took a 180, I won a freaking spelling bee, I sculpted a Triceratops out of clay for a science project that won first place among all the students in the school in kinder, 1st, and 2nd grade; I was placed into gifted classes within a few months, and I was just generally the perfect student. The problem and ultimately the reason I was taken off of ritalin is that when it wore off, I became quite emotional (my mother used the phrases "Cried at the drop of a hat" and "zombie-like"). So she stopped giving it to me.

30 years later, and I see the same ADHD signs in my son. Classic signs. It's like looking through a portal back to 1983. We're going to take him to a developmental pediatrician because he is absolutely uncontrollable at school and he is too close to kindergarten to allow this to continue. I'm not above medicating him to achieve success, either; zombie-kid or not. I will do whatever it takes to help ensure his academic success.

My question is this: I know Ritalin is a CNS stimulant - is there any information regarding using a different, perhaps safer, CNS stimulant to achieve the same sort of results? (I'm looking at you, caffeine)

[Napoleon the Clown]

You're aware that Ritalin is not the only medication used for ADHD, right? And they're always looking for more options for ADHD treatment. I don't know how many meds have approval for treatment of ADHD, but they've got enough these days that you have more choices than Ritalin or bust. Your kid's doctor will be able to give you more info on treatment options.

As far as caffeine is concerned, I know people who self-medicate with it and it seems to help them some. The plural of anecdote is not data, however. And caffeine usually comes packaged with a lot of sugar. The stuff a kid would like especially.

[sbvera13]

I normally lurk (since you used to have to make a cash donation to register) and registered just to answer this. Anyway, thanks, or I'd never have known they changed the rules.

I'm also ADHD, and have tried self-medicating with caffeine. It is partially effective; I find that it increases attention span, but no necessarily ability to concentrate on details (do math, etc). I use a strong English tea in the morning to get me through to lunch, when my body can properly recover from fasting all night. Caffeine combined with prescription stimulants causes pronounced drowsiness; I had to swear off caffeine totally while on it. Also, if using this, stay away from sugar sources (aka soda). The sugar crash will overpower the caffeine quickly and make your kid sleepy (ADD people seem to be more sensitive then normal to blood sugar levels). I currently adapt without medication because of the side effects (headache, daily crash, sleep irregularity). I use the natural stimulants the body produces produces during regular exercise instead. It requires more work on a daily basis but produces better long term results. Diet also has a noticeable effect, in particular long-release high-calorie-density food like whole grains.

My personal recomendation- and YMMV of course- is to keep your kid off of powerful stimulants until after puberty. Exercise, diet, caffeine, in that order, have worked for me to a large degree. If it's true ADD (The kind that doesn't "vanish" after high school. With a 5% medical incidence rate, and a 30+% diagnosis rate in school-age children, parents should be cautious) he needs a chance to get to know himself, understand the condition, and learn coping mechanisms. He should learn that the medication is a tool and be able to judge whether he needs it and if its worth the side effects so he can manage it properly once he's an adult. Also anecdotaly, I think it may impair adaptation when the brain gets used to it at a young age. Best of luck to you.

[Stark]

Caffiene is both habit-forming and has awful withdrawl symptoms. Its not life-destroyingly awful like ritalin, but it's hardly the cornerstone for emotional wellbeing either.

Projecting your own history onto your son is a fantastically terrible idea.

[Serafina]

Caffiene is both habit-forming and has awful withdrawl symptoms. Its not life-destroyingly awful like ritalin, but it's hardly the cornerstone for emotional wellbeing either.

Projecting your own history onto your son is a fantastically terrible idea.

Quite.

Furthermore, caffeine can also have a shitload of side effects in children - so i wouldn't use it as a "treatment".


Besides, WHY are you asking us? If you need concrete medical information, ALWAYS ask a medical professional, NOT a bunch of people on the Internet.

Seriously, what would you have done if someone here would have posted some information (maybe a study, maybe not) that caffeine does help with ADHD? Would you have skipped all those tedious visits to the doctor and just give your son a can of coffee every morning?
If so, you really need to slap yourself.

If you just wanted general information and would have cleared that information with your doctor, that's fine. I'm actually doing that myself with regards to my hormone treatment - but regardless what any source on the Internet tells me, in the end i always listen to my doctor. At most i bring up a suggestion, and that's it.

[eion]

I have Type 1 (Inattentive) ADHD. Paired with Dyspraxia and Dyscalculia it made for a very difficult time in school. I was diagnosed in 1999. Ritalin was tried but found to have no effect on my behavior so they moved me up to Adderall, which is really just prescription speed

While I was able to focus on and complete my assignments, I also lost my appetite to the point I had to set a timer on my watch to remind me to eat. I also learned very quickly that whatever activity I was engaged in 20 minutes after I took my pill would be what I would want to do for the next 3 - 5 hours. Whether that was homework, cleaning my room, or jacking off. Amphetamines and a teenage libido are not a good combination.

The drugs really helped me, but in the same way a crutch is helpful to a man with a twisted ankle. He needs it now, but eventually he'll be able to put more and more weight on it until he doesn't need them anymore. While I might get some benefit from still taking the drugs, in my current occupation (massage therapist), I think they'd really be more of a hindrance. Nervousness and twitchiness are not sought after qualities in a massage therapist.

As for the problem of your son. The best advice I can give is to seek out as many different expert opinions as possible. There are LOTS of experts out there about ADHD (Here's a link to the guy who helped me 12 years ago, he knows his shit. I'd most assuredly be in FAR worse shape had I never met him) and the therapies have come a long way from the days of simple Ritalin regimens. Whatever drugs you put him on, he should be in therapy (preferably group therapy, but maybe wait for that until he's older) so he can talk about any problems he's facing and have someone help him to find solutions.

I don't mean any once a month visits to the psychiatrist to adjust his dosages; I spent maybe 5 minutes with my pill prescriber once a month and he basically asked if I felt my dosage was appropriate and that was all, but then again I was going to group therapy every week. He'll need a real rapport with his therapist if it's going to help him, and you should go to therapy too so you can talk about the problems you're having with your son's progress. I was in therapy the entire time I was on the medication, and it helped as much, if not more, than the drugs. The emotional effects can be addressed with anything from an antidepressant (I was on citalopram, though if I went back on an antidepressant today I'd want mirtazapine to avoid any sexual side effects) to therapy strategies like journaling and active listening. Even at his young age therapy can really help him develop.

Best of luck.

[Versac]

I'm also ADHD, and have tried self-medicating with caffeine. It is partially effective; I find that it increases attention span, but no necessarily ability to concentrate on details (do math, etc). I use a strong English tea in the morning to get me through to lunch, when my body can properly recover from fasting all night. Caffeine combined with prescription stimulants causes pronounced drowsiness; I had to swear off caffeine totally while on it. Also, if using this, stay away from sugar sources (aka soda). The sugar crash will overpower the caffeine quickly and make your kid sleepy (ADD people seem to be more sensitive then normal to blood sugar levels). I currently adapt without medication because of the side effects (headache, daily crash, sleep irregularity). I use the natural stimulants the body produces produces during regular exercise instead. It requires more work on a daily basis but produces better long term results. Diet also has a noticeable effect, in particular long-release high-calorie-density food like whole grains.

My personal recomendation- and YMMV of course- is to keep your kid off of powerful stimulants until after puberty. Exercise, diet, caffeine, in that order, have worked for me to a large degree. If it's true ADD (The kind that doesn't "vanish" after high school. With a 5% medical incidence rate, and a 30+% diagnosis rate in school-age children, parents should be cautious) he needs a chance to get to know himself, understand the condition, and learn coping mechanisms. He should learn that the medication is a tool and be able to judge whether he needs it and if its worth the side effects so he can manage it properly once he's an adult. Also anecdotaly, I think it may impair adaptation when the brain gets used to it at a young age. Best of luck to you.

After physical maturity, experimentation to find a personal solution is a good thing - find something that works and use it. Just don't try something with a risk of catastrophic failure, and keep it legal. Talk to a psychiatrist for specific recommendations. But before puberty, definitely be extra wary of any pharmacological solutions. Good solutions do exist, but that's where psychiatrists earn their keep.

Caffiene is both habit-forming and has awful withdrawl symptoms. Its not life-destroyingly awful like ritalin, but it's hardly the cornerstone for emotional wellbeing either.

Projecting your own history onto your son is a fantastically terrible idea.

Reality check - caffeine withdrawal is mild enough that the conscious decision was made to exclude it from the DSM IV. It'll give you a nasty few days, but you'll live. There's much worse out there.

Family histories are of critical importance when discussing psychological stuff, and can hint towards particular quirks in otherwise similar cases. Just keep in mind that the same thing in different people will do different things, and should be treated accordingly.

Go talk to a psychiatrist. This question is literally what they get paid for.

Besides, WHY are you asking us? If you need concrete medical information, ALWAYS ask a medical professional, NOT a bunch of people on the Internet.

Seriously, what would you have done if someone here would have posted some information (maybe a study, maybe not) that caffeine does help with ADHD? Would you have skipped all those tedious visits to the doctor and just give your son a can of coffee every morning?
If so, you really need to slap yourself.

If you just wanted general information and would have cleared that information with your doctor, that's fine. I'm actually doing that myself with regards to my hormone treatment - but regardless what any source on the Internet tells me, in the end i always listen to my doctor. At most i bring up a suggestion, and that's it.

Talk to a psychiatrist. Tell them your concerns. Bring up your own history, but be fully prepared for a different diagnostic. Tell them your concerns regarding more powerful medications. Express your interest in alternate possibilities. Maybe even get a second opinion from a psychologist, or another psychiatrist. Follow up over time, if the medication used has unacceptable side effects, keep trying other options.

Above all else, talk to a professional.

[Versac]

The drugs really helped me, but in the same way a crutch is helpful to a man with a twisted ankle. He needs it now, but eventually he'll be able to put more and more weight on it until he doesn't need them anymore. While I might get some benefit from still taking the drugs, in my current occupation (massage therapist), I think they'd really be more of a hindrance. Nervousness and twitchiness are not sought after qualities in a massage therapist.

Lovely metaphor. I was also on an amphetamine blend (Ritalin was avoided after some unpleasant gastric effects), but I never saw any real negative effects. I just noticed one day after missing my medication that there was no significant difference, talked to my doctor, and went cold turkey.

As for the problem of your son. The best advice I can give is to seek out as many different expert opinions as possible. There are LOTS of experts out there about ADHD (Here's a link to the guy who helped me 12 years ago, he knows his shit. I'd most assuredly be in FAR worse shape had I never met him) and the therapies have come a long way from the days of simple Ritalin regimens. Whatever drugs you put him on, he should be in therapy (preferably group therapy, but maybe wait for that until he's older) so he can talk about any problems he's facing and have someone help him to find solutions.

I'm always a fan of cognitive solutions for long-term, but there's good history for pharmacological treatment of ADHD until adulthood. Seriously, talk to a psychiatrist.

I don't mean any once a month visits to the psychiatrist to adjust his dosages; I spent maybe 5 minutes with my pill prescriber once a month and he basically asked if I felt my dosage was appropriate and that was all, but then again I was going to group therapy every week. He'll need a real rapport with his therapist if it's going to help him, and you should go to therapy too so you can talk about the problems you're having with your son's progress. I was in therapy the entire time I was on the medication, and it helped as much, if not more, than the drugs. The emotional effects can be addressed with anything from an antidepressant (I was on citalopram, though if I went back on an antidepressant today I'd want mirtazapine to avoid any sexual side effects) to therapy strategies like journaling and active listening. Even at his young age therapy can really help him develop.

Out of purely personal curiosity, what kind of therapy? If you feel it's too personal, feel free to not elaborate, but comparison of approaches is something I find interesting.

[AMT]

Hi ebbydibby - so, when I was very young, I was diagnosed with what was then simply called "hey - your kid is hyperactive." (now known as ADHD) I had littler to no impulse control, was unfocused and generally a nuisance in school, unable to concentrate on an activity that I didn't find constantly engaging and stimulating (i.e. not video games or something like them) jumping off of things, running into the middle of the street with reckless abandon (one time, my mom apparently managed to snag my collar and jerk me back onto the sidewalk just as a car I failed to notice flew by.)

Anyhooz - Ritalin was promptly shoved down my gullet and I responded almost immediately and dramtically. my behavior in school took a 180, I won a freaking spelling bee, I sculpted a Triceratops out of clay for a science project that won first place among all the students in the school in kinder, 1st, and 2nd grade; I was placed into gifted classes within a few months, and I was just generally the perfect student. The problem and ultimately the reason I was taken off of ritalin is that when it wore off, I became quite emotional (my mother used the phrases "Cried at the drop of a hat" and "zombie-like"). So she stopped giving it to me.

30 years later, and I see the same ADHD signs in my son. Classic signs. It's like looking through a portal back to 1983. We're going to take him to a developmental pediatrician because he is absolutely uncontrollable at school and he is too close to kindergarten to allow this to continue. I'm not above medicating him to achieve success, either; zombie-kid or not. I will do whatever it takes to help ensure his academic success.

My question is this: I know Ritalin is a CNS stimulant - is there any information regarding using a different, perhaps safer, CNS stimulant to achieve the same sort of results? (I'm looking at you, caffeine)

I'm basically you, down to the Ritalin increasing my performance and my mom taking me off due to being "zombie-like" (her own words as well. Weird), except I'm a little younger.

Take this with a grain of salt since you know, personal anecdote, but caffeine helped a little in calming me down. However, the real side effect I found when using pure caffeine (black coffee, 5 hour energy, etc.) was that it made me tired. Not energy drink crash tired, but sleepy. That's why I can't use them to stay awake when I'm on a long road trip or the like. It calms me down, but it also makes me feel the exhaustion.

So, yeah, you could self medicate with caffeine, but from my personal experience, I'd recommend against it. There are medications out there besides Ritalin that can work just fine, though I myself use Ritalin again after being off it for over 20 years and it seems to work. These days they're a lot more conscious on the effect it may have on a person, as well as alternatives besides it.

[Chardok]

Okay - my question was

I know Ritalin is a CNS stimulant - is there any information regarding using a different, perhaps safer, CNS stimulant to achieve the same sort of results? (I'm looking at you, caffeine)

I also mentioned

We're going to take him to a developmental pediatrician because he is absolutely uncontrollable at school and he is too close to kindergarten to allow this to continue.

In fact, his appointment is tomorrow. I asked because based on what I see, he is suffering from the same condition I did (do?) and I have to think his response to medication would be similar. That said, if the doctor recommends some sort of medication (Ritalin, Adderall, Crapasin, Blankatol, Placebicaine, Anal-Benzine, Zilchatone, to name a few), I wanted to be armed with questions to ask regarding alternatives as well as information to support asserting a milder, more "natural" treatment. I have since had some time to check some junk on teh internets and apparently I'm not the only one to ask the question and there are some studies published showing that caffeine has little no effect on the performance of normally functioning, non ADHD children (and rats), but a measurable improvement in those that do have the condition.

That said, it will be interesting to note what the pediatrician's findings are. I suspect that there will be a strong hereditary component and there will be a lot of occupational therapy and behavior modification. Perhaps as a parent I'm simply "doing it wrong". I just don't see how I could be doing it so wrong that his behavior is so far and away the worst in the class to the point that he is (sometimes as often as twice a week) sent home because he is so disruptive to the class and uncontrollable by the teachers.

[AMT]

There really isn't a mild, "natural" treatment. There's medication and there's self control through training. However, training can only go so far. This isn't a behavioral issue. This is a biological issue. And just like you can't fully treat say... bipolar disorder, with training alone, the same holds true for ADD/ADHD.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

One thing that has been really understated in this thread is that ADHD is not just one single disorder. In my son's case, he was diagnosed with ADHD-Primarily Inattentive, and for that, stimulants such as Ritalin don't work. He's on Stratera, and it has made a world of difference; his ability to focus in class has increased dramatically so that the amount of homework has decreased. He's been in group therapy too. He was in a 12-week program on dealing with high-anxiety and is now in another 12-week program on developing social skills (these sessions also have a parental component; they're much more effective if the parents fully participate in that). He's also had individual therapy with psychologists.

So my son's experience seems to mirror eion's experience. My advice: use all the tools you can. A competent psychiatrist should be able to offer appropriate medications plus recommend appropriate group and/or individual therapy.

[Versac]

There really isn't a mild, "natural" treatment. There's medication and there's self control through training. However, training can only go so far. This isn't a behavioral issue. This is a biological issue. And just like you can't fully treat say... bipolar disorder, with training alone, the same holds true for ADD/ADHD.

This. Cognitive-behavioral treatments are measured in a span of years for a reason. Most people do 'grow out of' ADHD to some degree, so the massive time investment isn't optimal. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to put up with, say, another two years of reduced functionality to avoid a treatment that would only be for a limited period anyway.

Purely mental/behavioral treatments DO have their place. They're pretty much the only effective way of treating stuff like phobias and OCD, but the rule of thumb is that they work best on specific undesired actions or thoughts. More general behavioral or anxiety issues usually end up requiring medical supplementation anyway, so it's easier on everyone to start there and address specific issues that resist the chosen treatment.

[Formless]

One thing that has been really understated in this thread is that ADHD is not just one single disorder.

To expand for reference; there is Inattentive type, Hyperactive type, and Mixed type (both hyperactive and inattentive symptoms). I was diagnosed as predominately Inattentive, but I have my moments where I might seem energetic to the point of annoying those around me. Likewise...

In my son's case, he was diagnosed with ADHD-Primarily Inattentive, and for that, stimulants such as Ritalin don't work.

Stimulants worked for me despite being predominately inattentive, and I would probably still use them if I had not found out the hard way that I'm susceptible to seizures. Keep in mind, the exact cause of attention problems aren't fully known beyond "has biological origins" and "correlated with heredity". Everyone is going to react to medication slightly differently, and working with your doctor is a must.

This. Cognitive-behavioral treatments are measured in a span of years for a reason. Most people do 'grow out of' ADHD to some degree, so the massive time investment isn't optimal.

No, this is a cultural myth. In fact, 60% of kids diagnosed with the disorder continue to have symptoms as an adult (link) but adults display them differently due to changes in social circumstances, maturity, and learned behavior. So someone who liked to bounce off walls as a kid will instead find physically sedentary tasks (like office work) boring as an adult. Same disorder, different appearance. To the degree that it seems to go away can be attributed to the fact that an adult has had time to adapt and learn coping mechanisms even without professional help.

If you only invest in medication, you're not learning how to cope with the disorder in the long run, and eventually your body will build up a tolerance towards Ritalin and other stimulants (what I suspect happened to you when you went cold turkey). Medication is only a tool, and you know what they say about hammers and nails.

[eion]

I'm always a fan of cognitive solutions for long-term, but there's good history for pharmacological treatment of ADHD until adulthood. Seriously, talk to a psychiatrist.

I agree that at some point a psychiatrist will be involved in Chardoks son's treatment. I was referred to my psychiatrist by my therapist who felt that I needed to be evaluated and prescribed drugs to help me finish my homework and help with my depression. As soon as the psych found out my parent's had tried me on Ritalin before he recommended Adderall and chose Citalopram over other SSRIs because people tended to gain weight on them and I was already heavy enough.

But as the methods of talk therapists are far more varied than the methods of pharmacological prescription I feel it is more important to have a therapist who's style matches your needs and have them refer you to a psychiatrist. Some psychiatrists even work solely off the referrals of talk therapists so they can focus more on helping those who clearly have a need and worry less about being gatekeepers to the Schedule-II drugs.

Out of purely personal curiosity, what kind of therapy? If you feel it's too personal, feel free to not elaborate, but comparison of approaches is something I find interesting.

I was in group therapy once a week in addition to private sessions as needed. The group was composed entirely of gifted and talented kids with learning disabilities, and the majority of us were also dealing with sexual orientation acceptance issues. I am gay and the group actually helped me hugely in my coming out.

The biggest help was that as we kids were having our session talking about the problems of our week with school, parents, and other stuff our parents (mostly the moms if I'm honest) were just across the hall having their group therapy session talking about their problems of the week with us and themselves. That double-barreled approach was extremely helpful. The method of talk therapy was eclectic, but included all the basics like active listening and scenario exploration. When I entered the group I was a chronic liar and so having a group of kids (and a therapist) who could easily recognize my bullshit and make me account for it was very helpful.

My therapist also helped me and my parents with negotiations with the school for accommodations for my learning disabilities. It was also important that my therapist was both gay and GTLD, and so served as really my first role model for what I could become as a person.

Obviously talk therapy for a 6 year old will be very different from talk therapy for a 13-17 year old, and will doubtless include more framing activities like play therapy, though even we damaged teenagers broke out of the traditional circle for some games of Wally-Ball.

[sbvera13]

That said, if the doctor recommends some sort of medication (Ritalin, Adderall, Crapasin, Blankatol, Placebicaine, Anal-Benzine, Zilchatone, to name a few), I wanted to be armed with questions to ask regarding alternatives as well as information to support asserting a milder, more "natural" treatment.

Foremast, ask about any studies on the long-term effects of these drugs on developing children. I don't have the science to back it up, but I personally believe in NOT using psychoactive medication until after physical maturity. This is based on sharing information with friends with ADHD, since I wasn't medicated until college age, and they universally agree that it impeded their long term coping with the condition. In particular, they were completely un-prepared to manage themselves when the medication was phased out after high school/when starting college. Side effects and anything else have all taken second place to this issue among everyone I've talked to with firsthand experience. Whether this has a medical source, or is simply a result of using the drugs as a crutch and never learning true self-management skills, I do not know. You should be aware of the issue though, and discuss it at length with a specialist regarding your son's particular case before giving him any medication.

Also, investigate options with your school district. ADD/HD is classified as a spectrum disorder and disability, and your son may qualify for classroom assistance. I work as a substitute in exactly these kind of aid positions and see kids across a vast range of function and ability; don't be shy about the special education stigma and see what is available. The focus these days is on ILS (independent living skills) and social integration, and many special programs have little or no disruption and run in a normal classroom. A supervised environment may be just what he needs to learn impulse control and to manage himself as he grows up. It is, at least, a non-medical option you can ask about.

[Versac]

This. Cognitive-behavioral treatments are measured in a span of years for a reason. Most people do 'grow out of' ADHD to some degree, so the massive time investment isn't optimal.

No, this is a cultural myth. In fact, 60% of kids diagnosed with the disorder continue to have symptoms as an adult (link) but adults display them differently due to changes in social circumstances, maturity, and learned behavior. So someone who liked to bounce off walls as a kid will instead find physically sedentary tasks (like office work) boring as an adult. Same disorder, different appearance. To the degree that it seems to go away can be attributed to the fact that an adult has had time to adapt and learn coping mechanisms even without professional help.

If you only invest in medication, you're not learning how to cope with the disorder in the long run, and eventually your body will build up a tolerance towards Ritalin and other stimulants (what I suspect happened to you when you went cold turkey). Medication is only a tool, and you know what they say about hammers and nails.

You read that number wrong. It says "ADHD may exist in up to 60% of adults, whose first symptoms appeared before they were seven years old." This seems a much stronger statement than the one you claim... until you realize it conflicts with the American Journal of Psychiatry by over an order of magnitude. That makes your statistical claim dubious, to put it mildly.

But more to the point, cognitive-behavioral is the method of (my) choice for long term, but it simply isn't powerful or quick enough for the desired solution in this case. Which also has an extensive, largely successful history of pharmacological solutions. So... yeah.

[Formless]

You read that number wrong. It says "ADHD may exist in up to 60% of adults, whose first symptoms appeared before they were seven years old." This seems a much stronger statement than the one you claim... until you realize it conflicts with the American Journal of Psychiatry by over an order of magnitude. That makes your statistical claim dubious, to put it mildly.

1) Link to the source so I can see it in context, please. Just shoving a table in my face and forcing me to try and find out where the hell it came from based on the URL is a fucking headache I don't need, and hardly a good way of presenting evidence to boot. I'm not playing that game.

2) You read that sentence wrong-- you are quibbling over a grammar error in an abstract to a paper originally written in Spanish. If we interpret it to mean "up to 60% of the adult population has had ADHD since childhood" then the writer fucked up and did a classic comma splice. On the other hand I've seen plenty of people, pubmed abstracts, and even myself mistakenly throw commas into long sentences thinking that that was an appropriate way of breaking up the sentence. Obviously its not, but you still see it happen a lot. If that's the case, then the sentence parses to "up to 60% of adults who had ADHD as a child [whether diagnosed or not] may [still] have ADHD". Still bad grammar, but it fits in context better than your interpretation.

Think about it: that number, according to your interpretation, would be trivially disproved by looking at prevalence of ADHD in children. Do you really think the peer review board would fail to think of that? Or are you just another imbecile who thinks their personal judgment is better than peer review?

But more to the point, cognitive-behavioral is the method of (my) choice for long term, but it simply isn't powerful or quick enough for the desired solution in this case. Which also has an extensive, largely successful history of pharmacological solutions. So... yeah.

Pharmacological tools put me on a regiment of 6 500mg tablets of keppra (an anti-convulsant) per day just in case the seizures come back. Again, I mean; its been 6 months since the last attack but if you have seizures when you haven't even been taking the shit for half a year you know something has been permanently broken in your brain. That should tell you how much respect I have for the pill-popping mentality. When you say the gains are short term, no fucking shit, the stuff lasts for only a few hours. That's not a solution, that's a bandaid. I don't know what exactly you worked out with your doctor, but don't be surprised that so few of us share your enthusiasm for stimulants over other forms of treatment.

[Chardok]

Well, we had the eval done. At least the initial one, and it seems pretty conclusive. We had to leave the room for most of the assessment, and after returning to the room, and my kid getting down off of the eval table thingo, we asked him, "What do you say?" to which he replied "Thank you." (the correct answer). the Dr. then said "Oh, he is very very polite...and distractable, and extremely impulsive." Anyway, long story short, he is now taking about 1.5mg/day of Tenex. It doesn't turn him into a perfect little soldier, to use the Dr.'s words, but I saw an almost immediate difference. he seems to be more malleable(?) in his behaviors, and more able to "Put the brakes on" the impulsivity. Less "Ready, fire, aim" as it were. We will go back later this month to complete the evaluation (they were unable to because he was soooo distracted constantly. They still need to do the verbal IQ test as well.) and I was also recommended a book "The Explosive Child" - which I will be checking out.


and actually the most interesting parts of the appointment were she used almost the exact words someone in this thread did "It's not behavioral, it's biological." and also "Dad - you should probably be on medication as well."
She said that I talk, move, act, and react like someone suffering from ADHD (and that being on medication would help me to be more patient with my son and would only help my relationship with my wife, as well. I suppose that I've developed mechanisms for coping over the years, but after thinking about it a bit - yeah...

[AMT]

That was me. And yeah, trust me, I was in the same boat. You can control it... a little, with behavior, but it won't completely fix it. If you start using meds responsibly you'll see a big difference. I hope everything works out for you and yours!

[sbvera13]

and also "Dad - you should probably be on medication as well."

I can relate to that statement... well, except for the "dad" part. Hope it all works out for ya.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

and also "Dad - you should probably be on medication as well."

I, too, can relate. After my son was diagnosed with ADHD-PI last fall, my wife had me read the literature given to her by the psychiatrist; after reading it, she asked what I thought. My response. . .it sounds just like me. I have an appointment for later this month for an assessment (free health care in Canada is great, but sometimes there are long waiting lists).