LOGH: Yang without Lohengramm *spoilers*

[MaiazuruX]

I've always wondered how those two geniuses would have fared without the other. However, its simpler for Reinhard: his life would have been way easier for his plans of conquest. Yang, however, is more interesting.

Without Reinhard, the war's status quo would have been maintained through Yang's life, in my opinion. What I'm wondering is how far Yang would have gone. He made it to Commander by himself without Reinhard being an adversary, and was highly valued by Admiral Greenhill for his strategic and tactical abilities. So I don't see him being all that small of a military figure. Because Julian would wish to be a soldier and would enlist, Yang would likely feel compelled to stay longer than he might have otherwise.

How far do you guys think Yang would have gone without Reinhard, with him not having the ambition nor the feeling to be a great man?

[Vympel]

Well, without Reinhard, Yang would've have gotten a chance to distinguish himself at either the 6th Battle of Iserlohn, 4th Battle of Tiamat or Battle of Astarte. His career may well have been significantly slower - i.e. he may never have even made Commodore as soon as he did (he got that out of recognition for 6th Iserlohn).

Its even possible that at best he would live a life of minor celebrity due to El Facil, but wouldn't become a legend or have a major impact on the conduct of the war - he'd likely retire as soon as his pension was ready.

[Simon_Jester]

I think he would have eventually gotten tasked to take Iserlohn- that was the single big military goal for the Alliance, and the FPA brass was starting to consciously cultivate Yang fairly early on. There were senior officers who could refuse to accept his resignation until they felt the time was right, and there was no way that would happen while Iserlohn was still in Imperial hands.

What would happen after the fall of Iserlohn is hard to say. The Alliance offensive would probably proceed anyway, but without Reinhard masterminding the naval strategy to oppose it it might get farther before bogging down, and avoid the catastrophic and arguably decisive defeat at Amlitzer.

And past that point, without Reinhard, the Imperial Civil War could get a lot uglier and more destructive, or at least more complicated. There would be no corresponding FPA civil war, because Reinhard organized that. In essence... I think Yang might if nothing else wind up tipping the balance of the war in the Alliance's favor, to the point where the Empire was placed on the back foot during a period of relatively weak leadership.

Someone else might emerge to take power- but it's hard to say, because the obvious figures had destinies closely tied with Reinhard's. Oberstein might well have been utterly ruined (if not executed) over the fall of Iserlohn if not for Reinhard; Mittermeyer and Reuental would have had a much slower and riskier rise to prominence, and so on.

[Vympel]

I think he would have eventually gotten tasked to take Iserlohn- that was the single big military goal for the Alliance, and the FPA brass was starting to consciously cultivate Yang fairly early on. There were senior officers who could refuse to accept his resignation until they felt the time was right, and there was no way that would happen while Iserlohn was still in Imperial hands.

I don't know about that. IIRC before Yang had done anything significant with his career since Facil, he began to be known as "Good for Nothing Yang". 6th Iserlohn was where he got noticed for having an actual achievement since El Facil - and that was a situation entirely created by Reinhard.

EDIT: heck, Yang was so unpopular, when he submitted his plan to deal with guy-who-he-didn't-know-was-Reinhard, he had Greenhill submit it under his name, because he was loathe to put his own name to it out of fear it'd get rejected by that worthless walrus asshole, Lobos.

[MaiazuruX]

I don't know about that. IIRC before Yang had done anything significant with his career since Facil, he began to be known as "Good for Nothing Yang". 6th Iserlohn was where he got noticed for having an actual achievement since El Facil - and that was a situation entirely created by Reinhard.

EDIT: heck, Yang was so unpopular, when he submitted his plan to deal with guy-who-he-didn't-know-was-Reinhard, he had Greenhill submit it under his name, because he was loathe to put his own name to it out of fear it'd get rejected by that worthless walrus asshole, Lobos.

It would have made his carreer slower, but wouldn't have stopped it. Greenhill certainly recognized the young man's genius and would push to see it used. And Sitolet had noticed him already, too. Since those two were looking for talent, not flamboyance.

You know one thing which could have happened? That Greenhill or Sitolet got Yang assigned to Bucock's staff as an advisor. It might still slow his carreer somewhat, since Bucock isn't the type to mess up or make stupid decisions. He'd have a commander who actually listens and isn't the type to throw away advice that goes outside the bounds of his thinking. My take? The 5th Fleet would be a force to be reckoned with with those two at the same spot. This is one commander Yang would genuinely respect, no?

[Vympel]

Yeah, Bucock or perhaps Ulanhu (10th Fleet) would've been solid choices, the latter was no fool either. He had a good chance of survivng the Black Lancers until that last second worst-unlucky-shot-ever blew up his ship.

[MaiazuruX]

Yeah, Bucock or perhaps Ulanhu (10th Fleet) would've been solid choices, the latter was no fool either. He had a good chance of survivng the Black Lancers until that last second worst-unlucky-shot-ever blew up his ship.

Although working with either of them might well have convinced Yang to stick around a bit more than he intended - especially with Julian worryingly wanting to be a soldier, likely prompting Yang to remain out of concern - would this have had an effect on Yang's carreer? Its practically certain either Bucock or Ulanhu would have agreed with Greenhill and Sitolet's assessment of Yang's mind, but could they have done anything about it?

[Simon_Jester]

My impression is that Yang's attempts to retire* didn't have to be accepted- that they didn't have to let him go, and that a fair chunk of the FPA's senior officers knew better than to let him. And I don't think Yang's record of making suggestions that drew attention from the FPA brass depended entirely on Reinhard; he would still have been making good plans even if Reinhard did not exist.

*(ridiculously early- what kind of navy permits a serving officer with no black marks on their record to 'retire' in their thirties in the middle of a shooting war?)

[Uraniun235]

*(ridiculously early- what kind of navy permits a serving officer with no black marks on their record to 'retire' in their thirties in the middle of a shooting war?)

The FPA and Empire have been "at war" for over a hundred years, but it hasn't been pitched fighting the entire time. Yang, as well as several senior admirals, thought that taking Iserlohn would be the beginning of a quiet period in the war: an opportunity for the FPA to wind down a little and put its economy in order, while they were shielded from Imperial invasion by Iserlohn. Unfortunately for them, the civilian leadership instead saw it as an opportunity to double down on the war.

[Simon_Jester]

True- and until Iserlohn fell, the war was still running hot and I find it impossible to believe Yang would have been, or should have been, permitted to retire.

I haven't actually watched the series up to the point where he does retire- though I don't give a damn about spoilers, as I researched the main characters' lives from start to finish for ulterior reasons well before even finishing the Gaidens. But my point is, I cannot imagine a rational military policy in which Yang wouldn't have tremendous trouble getting out of the armed forces without being jerked back in by a stop-loss order.

[Nephtys]

Without Lohengramm, Reunthal may not have been a factor at all. After all, he was in a cell about to be killed if not for Mittermeyer going to Lohengramm/then-Musel for help. Which may also have severely tanked Mittermeyer's career as well.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

WHAT SERIES ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???

Please mention it in the title of the thread or in the opening post. Seriously, stop being a bunch of Dennis Millers.

[Nephtys]

WHAT SERIES ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???

Please mention it in the title of the thread or in the opening post. Seriously, stop being a bunch of Dennis Millers.

Legend of the Galactic Heroes. A sci-fi space opera about a war between two nations. Opera in all senses of the word, considering how damn long it is. It's apparently got a big following here.

[Vympel]

Without Lohengramm, Reunthal may not have been a factor at all. After all, he was in a cell about to be killed if not for Mittermeyer going to Lohengramm/then-Musel for help. Which may also have severely tanked Mittermeyer's career as well.

It was Reuenthal going to Lohengramm/Musel for help about Mittermeyer in the cell, actually

Edited the thread title.