Games Workshop's Latest Price Insanity

[Lord Relvenous]

Because you Aussies get ass raped by GW for no reason at all. All my prices are US prices. And I think you might have totalled everything when I was still doing 6 boxes of Grey Knights.

[Norade]

That 585 list was one of the few 1,500 point GK lists I could find simply because of the more common 1,750 and 2,000 point tournaments. When you start adding henchmen and Chimeras, needed for most high end GK lists, things tend to start costing more.

EDIT: Also my prices are from Canada and considering our dollar bests the US by a bit should be cheaper. Yet another reason to avoid GW and their bullshit.

[Gandalf]

I'd like to play FoW, but my hands just aren't precise enough. Which is a shame, because I'd love to have a US rifle company.

Here in the deep south of OZ, that same army would be... AUD682. :/

I'd be willing to bet that FoW would be cheaper for you then.

I did a check on the official website. It came to less than $350, plus whatever shipping would be.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I'd like to play FoW, but my hands just aren't precise enough. Which is a shame, because I'd love to have a US rifle company.

Do you just mean general clumsiness, or a more serious condition? Because if it's the former, I wouldn't be too discouraged. I have minor hand tremors and rather poor coordination, and I do just fine. Most of it just comes down to practice, patience and persistence, like most anything else. A lot of people think painting miniatures is much harder than it actually is.

[Lord Relvenous]

First of all, it's lacking Paladins? Sure it is. Oh wait! There's 10 terminators there! That can make a unit of terminators and a unit of Paladins! Amazing.

So let's modify it so that it has all that "fun" stuff. (Seeing as how some players find a Dreadknight fun, I find that argument hilarious).

Draig- $27 IIRC
6 boxes of Grey Knights (hey look, I can make fun Purifiers) $132
2 boxes of Terminators (a unit of terminators and Paladins? Or just all Paladins! Madness!) $100
3 Rhinos $99

So we've now increased the price to $358, but in doing so gave the player 30 Grey Knights to use as they will, 10 Terminators that could be scoring Paladins as well, and 3 Rhinos. And it's easily 1500 points. Does that meet your oh so important guidelines for fun?

Wow, you still have a bad list that costs more than a top end FoW list that was running at a higher points cost. I'm also not sure where you're at, but when I ring up that list I get a much higher cost of $505.50 which is crazy for such an awful list.

Draig- $30
6 boxes of Grey Knights (hey look, I can make fun Purifiers) $39.50 each ($237 total)
2 boxes of Terminators (a unit of terminators and Paladins? Or just all Paladins! Madness!) $60 each ($120 total)
3 Rhinos $39.50 each ($118.50 total)

Where as the cost even an expensive list in other systems won't come close to that.

First of all, you caught eme before the edit in which I fixed my numbers, as I changed how many Grey Knights boxes I was getting.

Secondly, you said you wanted Purifiers, Paladins, and Rhinos. That list has those. There's only so much you can put in 1500. Now if you want to play around with it , that's easy as it still is much lower than the target of $585. I'm just throwing out models to show just how much $585 can get you.. Of course it's gonna need tweaking for an actualy list

Thirdly, the Canada to US thing changes a lot. I pay little attention to locations, so did not even think of Canadian dollars until you mentioned it. With that in mind, $585 Canadian isn't as ridiculously high as my originial understanding of $585 USD. I'd suggest throwing a CAD in your post next time you talk about prices, as Americans are going to automatically assume USD when they see a dollar sign.

[Kojiro]

Because you Aussies get ass raped by GW for no reason at all. All my prices are US prices. And I think you might have totalled everything when I was still doing 6 boxes of Grey Knights.

And THAT is why I say PP is an excellent alternative to all the wargamers I meet- incidentally they happen to all be in Australia.

Re run your prices in AU. At $55 for 5 man squad of Grey Knights you're already $15 over the $40 box of 6 Stormblades. Adding an Incinerator or Stormgunner to each will run you $26 and $11 respectively.

Say what you want but if you're looking for value PP is miles ahead here. That makes them a viable alternative.

[Norade]

First of all, it's lacking Paladins? Sure it is. Oh wait! There's 10 terminators there! That can make a unit of terminators and a unit of Paladins! Amazing.

So let's modify it so that it has all that "fun" stuff. (Seeing as how some players find a Dreadknight fun, I find that argument hilarious).

Draig- $27 IIRC
6 boxes of Grey Knights (hey look, I can make fun Purifiers) $132
2 boxes of Terminators (a unit of terminators and Paladins? Or just all Paladins! Madness!) $100
3 Rhinos $99

So we've now increased the price to $358, but in doing so gave the player 30 Grey Knights to use as they will, 10 Terminators that could be scoring Paladins as well, and 3 Rhinos. And it's easily 1500 points. Does that meet your oh so important guidelines for fun?

Wow, you still have a bad list that costs more than a top end FoW list that was running at a higher points cost. I'm also not sure where you're at, but when I ring up that list I get a much higher cost of $505.50 which is crazy for such an awful list.

Draig- $30
6 boxes of Grey Knights (hey look, I can make fun Purifiers) $39.50 each ($237 total)
2 boxes of Terminators (a unit of terminators and Paladins? Or just all Paladins! Madness!) $60 each ($120 total)
3 Rhinos $39.50 each ($118.50 total)

Where as the cost even an expensive list in other systems won't come close to that.

First of all, you caught eme before the edit in which I fixed my numbers, as I changed how many Grey Knights boxes I was getting.

Secondly, you said you wanted Purifiers, Paladins, and Rhinos. That list has those. There's only so much you can put in 1500. Now if you want to play around with it , that's easy as it still is much lower than the target of $585. I'm just throwing out models to show just how much $585 can get you.. Of course it's gonna need tweaking for an actualy list

Thirdly, the Canada to US thing changes a lot. I pay little attention to locations, so did not even think of Canadian dollars until you mentioned it. With that in mind, $585 Canadian isn't as ridiculously high as my originial understanding of $585 USD. I'd suggest throwing a CAD in your post next time you talk about prices, as Americans are going to automatically assume USD when they see a dollar sign.

Except that the Candian dollar is about 2 cents higher than the American one so I'd fully expect my purchase to cost less. For things like FoW they do, for shit from GW, it suddenly doesn't work that way. Yet another reason why I'll keep on pirating their books and proxying their models.

[defanatic]

And I think you might have totalled everything when I was still doing 6 boxes of Grey Knights.

Totalled everything? I'm sorry. I can't honestly figure out what this sentence means. :/

EDIT: Oh, right. You changed the number.

EDIT2: With that in mind, it's down to "only" AUD572, or USD614 (according to google as of posting).

[Lord Relvenous]

Because you Aussies get ass raped by GW for no reason at all. All my prices are US prices. And I think you might have totalled everything when I was still doing 6 boxes of Grey Knights.

And THAT is why I say PP is an excellent alternative to all the wargamers I meet- incidentally they happen to all be in Australia.

Re run your prices in AU. At $55 for 5 man squad of Grey Knights you're already $15 over the $40 box of 6 Stormblades. Adding an Incinerator or Stormgunner to each will run you $26 and $11 respectively.

Say what you want but if you're looking for value PP is miles ahead here. That makes them a viable alternative.

Yeah, GW has ridiculous prices for AU. I honestly have no idea why.

Also quality of product is higher on the GW end, I'd say. Better detail, posable minis, and extra bits. However, that does not make up for their ridiculous pricing. For an American gamer like myself it is a consideration, though.

@Defanatic: GW has weird ass pricing issues when it comes to Aussieland. You can't just plug your price into a converter to get the USD price. It's actually closer to half of that number.

For anyone living in upside-down world, GW is ridiculously priced. You can argue the USD prices. The AU prices are pants on head retarded, and I fully understand any player from the AU choosing other systems.

Edit: Reworded some sentences for clarity.

[defanatic]

Given that's apparently what this thread is about. I'm just providing a comparison of US prices and AU prices using a similar currency.

In general, I order most things from overseas. GW miniatures especially so.

[Lord Relvenous]

Fair enough. I see what you're getting at.

And before anyone thinks I'm trying to say GW's USD prices are reasonable, I'll point out again that I no longer purchase their models due to price hikes.

[Stark]

Guys, for items like GW miniatures (which are more 'statues' than 'kits'), do they cast the resin?

[Gandalf]

I'd like to play FoW, but my hands just aren't precise enough. Which is a shame, because I'd love to have a US rifle company.

Do you just mean general clumsiness, or a more serious condition? Because if it's the former, I wouldn't be too discouraged. I have minor hand tremors and rather poor coordination, and I do just fine. Most of it just comes down to practice, patience and persistence, like most anything else. A lot of people think painting miniatures is much harder than it actually is.

Myoclonic epilepsy. The more precise I try to be, the more shaky I get.

I used to have GW LOTR minis, and I could barely paint faces on figures four or so centimetres tall. The scale of FoW is a bit intimidating as a result.

[Serafina]

I have a similar problem, basically i just lack the ability to train my fine motor skills, probably due to an oxygen shortage shortly after my premature birth.

There are several dry-brush and similar "quick&dirty" techniques that you can use even if your fine motor skills are crap. Your models will not look that good up-close and you won't win any contests, but they'll look just fine at a tabletop. With some practice in these techniques most people won't even see the difference until they get really up close.


Alternatively, find someone who is training for painting tournaments. Supply him with models and pain he can use to practice and you'll get well-painted miniatures in return. Just make sure that this person is training for a specific style and isn't experimenting with completely new techniques.
You won't get yourself a well-painted army for that, but it's perfect for special models - leaders, unique monsters, war machines and such.

[weemadando]

I'd like to play FoW, but my hands just aren't precise enough. Which is a shame, because I'd love to have a US rifle company.

Do you just mean general clumsiness, or a more serious condition? Because if it's the former, I wouldn't be too discouraged. I have minor hand tremors and rather poor coordination, and I do just fine. Most of it just comes down to practice, patience and persistence, like most anything else. A lot of people think painting miniatures is much harder than it actually is.

Myoclonic epilepsy. The more precise I try to be, the more shaky I get.

I used to have GW LOTR minis, and I could barely paint faces on figures four or so centimetres tall. The scale of FoW is a bit intimidating as a result.

My armies have always been unpainted or barely painted. I used to play until friends get annoyed and painted them for me.

It's not that I have a physical impediment to painting, I just sucked at it.

Modelling/converting was fine. Painting, not so much.

But anyhoo - FoW is the kind of game where giving them an OD Green basecoat followed by pink splodges for faces and brown/metal splodges in the hands will do.

This is even a bit more than is strictly necessary in my eyes.


This is just WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU? DON'T YOU HAVE A JOB?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hy6R9asHd3M/S ... mm+063.JPG

[Stravo]

Apparently this price increase coupled with the embargo to our friends down under has really struck a chord with many fans. Yes there was a price increase last year at this time and another the year before that but in a recent Beasts of War Turn 8 videocast they extrapolated what the price increases will mean in just 2-3 more years if they keep up at this same pace and it is not good at all for those of us who want to continue in this hobby. (The discussion begins around the hour and 20 minute mark) They also point out that emails from GW to the retailers refer to this increase as "The annual price increase" meaning that this is not just some reaction to the costs of materials or fuel but a corporate plan in place to increase prices on an annual basis come rain or shine.

As an aside I wanted to purchase a Finecast figure from the GW website, first time I would ever purchase from them directly, and the lone figure I wanted was $22.00. I can buy a tac squad for around that price on Ebay with some luck not to mention other non-hobby related things I can buy for that price. What the hell? So no thanks on that purchase.

In any event there is this video I stumbled across from Miniwargaming Store where they publish an open letter from them to GW that essentially is telling them to stop the madness. There is only so much abuse you can heap on independent retailers and the fanbase before they start to defect.

Long term podcasts like Eternal Warriors and PodHammer have basically said Fuck you to GW and I do believe the Podhammer team is actually thinking of shutting down the podcast.

I have not seen this kind of widespread rippling reaction across the hobby before and certainly not during the last price increase though I will admit I am new to this but I still find it telling.

BTW if anyone is interested in an alternative to WH Fantasy a company called Mantic has been making some very nice fantasy models. Their undead line is particulalry awesome looking and they have a rule set out for free on their website. They are also looking to start up a sci-fi line as well. Even if you don't want to use their rule set those figures can easily be substituted for GW models and you can still play WH Fantasy.

[Stark]

Isn't this kind of backlash missing the point, that GW may actually need to jack prices to generate profit? While they might be doing better now than in 2007 they're still a pretty poor ROI, and if they held prices where they are I imagine they'd quickly fall back into the shit.

I'm still interested in how profitable their individual stores are; there seem to be far 'too many' stores in Brisbane, when they could get away with 1 or 3.

[Artemas]

yeah, well if you're right and t most of their cash comes from impulse sales, then having a larger, convenient network of stores supports that

[Stark]

Assuming I'm right is a dangerous place to be. But the guys here talking about the hobby talk a lot about the sort of thing kids do in stores... even though they always seem empty... I dunno. The southside store in particular is in a pretty crap spot and directly next to a 10m bus ride direct to the city store; but then I guess the 100% markup in AU pays for that.

I should go through their financials again and see how much their rents add up to and how much their retail staff costs them. I wonder if they get free/cheaper GW products?

[Artemas]

the ones here are all in malls, in the suburbs mostly, and are also pretty empty

i imagine their retail staff get paid poorly, assuming that because they're hobbyists they'll work for less

most people who are balls-in to the hobby go to a third party outlet that sells all GW stuff and a ton more

[Stark]

The stores here are relatively recent; pretty much everyone used generic hobby stores when I was a kid. Having stores is probably helping them compete with importers? They chase low rents; the city store moves every few years and the southside store is across the road from the mall they can't afford to be in anymore.

[Artemas]

i guess the GW stores also sort of sell a social network for games and tournements and shit? thats about the only time i've ever seen more than 2 people in a store. it'd be pretty convenient for people who don't already/are afraid of developing their own gaming group.

wait, didnt people already go over this?

[Stark]

Sure, but why so many? Are there really enough idiots paying $200 a dragon in Brisbane to run 5 tournaments?

[Artemas]

how expensive are tournaments to run? might already be sunk costs? or cornering the market that doesnt want to travel far to the third party retailer or whatever.

[Lord Relvenous]

Tournaments really don't cost anything to run. It just ties up store tables. I suppose the employee running it has his pay, but that's a pittance compared to the business that a tournament brings in. Unless GW doesn't do entry fees, their product costs for the prizes are covered by buy-ins.