FIFA screws over iranian female athletes

[Skgoa]

By Thomas Erdbrink,

TEHRAN — Not participating in the 2012 London Olympics is a nightmare for every serious athlete, but for the Iranian women’s soccer team the defeat was extra bitter after they were disqualified right before a crucial qualifying match because they wore Islamic headscarves.

Ready to play a crucial Olympic qualifying match with Jordan in Amman on Friday, the Iranian team was dismissed by officials of the international football association, FIFA. The officials decided just before the kickoff that the tight headscarves the Iranian players were wearing to cover their hair broke the association’s dress code, FIFA said on Monday.

After Jordan was awarded a 3-0 victory, Iran’s players took to the field crying, Press TV, Iranian state TV’s English-language outlet, reported.

In the Islamic Republic of Iran all women are obliged to cover their hair, neck, arms and legs according to the state’s interpretation of Shiite Islamic tenets. Female athletes who compete internationally have to obey the country’s dress code. Iranian women athletes have excelled during international events in sports such as karate and volleyball, but are notably absent from sports such as swimming and gymnastics.

“This ruling means that women soccer in Iran is over,” said Shahrzad Mozafar, the team’s former head coach. She said that now that FIFA is no longer allowing Iranian women to wear scarves, the Iranian government will no longer send them abroad for competitions. “Headscarves are simply what we wear in Iran,” she said.

In April 2010 FIFA announced that it was planning to ban headscarves and other religious outings during the 2012 Olympics. Following the ruling, Iran’s team designed special headscarves that players wrapped tightly around their heads and necks. The team said they were in line with guidelines set by the football association.

FIFA did not agree and told the Associated Press on Monday that its officials had been right to stop the Iranian women from playing the qualifier. Iranian officials were “informed thoroughly” before Friday's match against Jordan that the headscarf covering a woman’s neck is banned for safety reasons, an unidentified FIFA official said.

The Iranian football organization, which is lead by allies of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is planning to protest the ruling.

Mozafar said the ruling killed professional athletic ambitions of Iranian women.

“When a serious women athlete can’t participate internationally, which ambitions are left for her?” she said.

Special correspondent Kay Armin Serjoie contributed to this report.

The fuck? I understand trying to be unoffensive, but banning people from the olympics for their traditional style of clothing is going a little far. And using saftey as an excuse to discriminate is just plain bad.

[Sarevok]

If FIFA let them play with headscarves people would be complaining FIFA is siding with Iran and it's attitudes towards women.

If FIFA does not let them play they are bigots who nitpick over clothing.

There is no appeasing everyone here.

[Serafina]

It's still the FIFAs fault. Well, they're well-known for their sexism anyway, but consider this:
They were fully aware that the Iranians women could not possibly play without covering their hair. They could have assisted them in finding a proper compromise (assuming that this one wasn't). Instead they screwed them over and banned them from playing without the women having done anything wrong.

Furthermore, what's worse: the women playing with a somewhat suppressive headscarf, or them not playing at all?
Keep in mind that playing sports, particularly football (or soccer), is empowering those women. Certainly more than wearing a piece of clothing disempowers them.

In the end it boils down to two things:
- Either the women wanted to wear the headscarves. In this case the FIFA banned them because the women wore something the FIFA didn't like and deemed inappropriate.
- Or the women didn't want to wear the headscarves and only did so due to outside pressure. In that case the FIFA only supported their oppression, rather than helping them to fight against that pressure by altering the headscarves.

Sorry, but i see no one at fault here but the FIFA and perhaps religion.

[Block]

Fifa isn't at fault because they gave clear warning and have clear uniform standards for everyone. They disqualified the Nigerian men's team I think it was a while back because they wore a non-standard accessory during a qualifying match.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

If women are allowed to run around in public wearing the clothes they choose to, the terrorists win.

[Serafina]

Fifa isn't at fault because they gave clear warning and have clear uniform standards for everyone. They disqualified the Nigerian men's team I think it was a while back because they wore a non-standard accessory during a qualifying match.

So if you erect a standard that keeps a certain group of people (who just happens to be suppressed) out of your group, you're not to blame?

Look, i get safety standards. I get that they want to ensure that the teams are playing with similar equipment and so on.
In this case they are however not serving any of those goals. The only goal served is that of misogyny.

It's not like those scarves were something the women can just discard at will. If they do so, they'll essentially be outcasts in their own society. It's not an option for them.


Analogy:
Suppose there was an exclusively black team from a country with segregation which simultaneously fields a white team. (I know this didn't happen, it's hypothetical). Whose goal are you serving if you keep the black team from competing in an international competition? Hmm, maybe the goal of the Segregationists?
And in that case there would be a MUCH stronger argument for banning the black team - after all why should we allow a country to have two separate teams? (Tough we do, see Britain).

The same is happening here. The only one who is winning here is the Iranian patriarchy.4
Unless you can present a strong reason why headscarves should be banned (safety reasons or to maintain competitive fairness), this it at best a refusal of the FIFA to stand for minority rights (gee, what a surprise) and at worst an active act of misogyny.

[Big Phil]

Perhaps you should direct your outrage toward the Iranian government that forces women to wear headscarves. Oh but that's right... they don't give a shit about your outrage...

[Serafina]

Perhaps you should direct your outrage toward the Iranian government that forces women to wear headscarves. Oh but that's right... they don't give a shit about your outrage...

So by your logic, if i discuss the fault of one agency to which the topic relates (the FIFA), i should also discuss the fault of another group who is at fault, but unrelated to the topic (the Iranian government)?

But it's nice to see that you can't actually say anything in defense of the FIFA.

[Block]

So if you erect a standard that keeps a certain group of people (who just happens to be suppressed) out of your group, you're not to blame?

That standard has been in place for a long time, they didn't suddenly put it in place to punish Iranian women.

Look, i get safety standards. I get that they want to ensure that the teams are playing with similar equipment and so on.
In this case they are however not serving any of those goals. The only goal served is that of misogyny.

It's not misogyny from FIFA if the standards are applied equally to men and women. The thing you should be complaining about is the Iranians forcing women to go through this.

[Serafina]

That standard has been in place for a long time, they didn't suddenly put it in place to punish Iranian women.

Except that this part of the standards ("do not wear headscarves") does nothing but punish Iranian women.
It is unrelated to safety or fairness concerns and is by itself arbitrary. There is absolutely no reason to keep it except unwillingness to make an exception.

It's not misogyny from FIFA if the standards are applied equally to men and women. The thing you should be complaining about is the Iranians forcing women to go through this.

Yes, because islamic men are totally forced to wear headscarves By your logic, it would not be misogynistic to enforce standards against bras equally amongst men and women The item we are talking is gender-specific, unless you are so dumb that you do not realize that the clothing standards of the FIFA are not one indivisible entity.


If the FIFA actually cared about standing in for minorities, it would make an exception in this case, because there is no reason not to make one. As it is, it chose to stand by it's own traditions for traditions sake and aid another tradition in suppressing women.
Oh, and it's nice to see that Iranian officials chose to protest this. I guess they are more liberal than the FIFA.

[Phantasee]

More would have been done for their rights in Iran if they had been able to play in the Olympics. Remember, one of the benefits of international sporting competitions is the exposure to different ways of thinking and lifestyles that all the athletes experience. There's a reason many athletes go on to become very politically active and agitate to improve conditions in their home countries.

[Serafina]

More would have been done for their rights in Iran if they had been able to play in the Olympics. Remember, one of the benefits of international sporting competitions is the exposure to different ways of thinking and lifestyles that all the athletes experience. There's a reason many athletes go on to become very politically active and agitate to improve conditions in their home countries.

Quite.
Minorities only have two ways to gain their rights and actual equality:
Visibility or Courts
They obviously do not have the support of the latter in Iran, so their only option is pretty much social change trough the former. You can not have an effective political protest without visibility, after all. Furthermore, being recognized as varied human beings is also essential for equality.

[Simon_Jester]

I don't think FIFA is being misogynistic. I just think they're being obnoxious, stupid, and probably there's a dash of religious bigotry thrown in there.

The practice of banning headscarves seems to have a lot to do with the idea of suppressing fundamentalist Islam by preventing female Muslims from wearing its symbols. That can be pitched as an attempt to forcibly liberate Muslim women from fundamentalist strictures... but only in situations where you can prevent Muslim men from saying "if our women can't go out in public with a headscarf on, they won't go out at all." That is obviously not possible here- Iran can easily prevent its sports teams from playing internationally "to preserve the modesty" of its athletes

What this boils down to is:
-The FIFA officials trying to ban headscarves view Muslim strictures on permitted clothing as less valid than those found elsewhere. You can argue for that view if you like, but it's not always a virtue for an international organization to pooh-pooh the customs of its more conservative members. Doing so tends to isolate those members, just as Iran is now isolated from the rest of the world in the field of women's sports.
-The FIFA officials trying to ban headscarves are being obnoxious: they are depriving Iranian athletes of the opportunity to play for purely superficial reasons, which do not in any way affect the Iranian women's sportsmanship, skill, or fair play.
-The FIFA officials trying to ban headscarves are being stupid: the only logical reason to ban headscarves is to force Muslim countries to let their women play internationally without wearing headscarves. But simple common sense tells us that instead of doing what FIFA wants them to do, the Muslim countries in question (Iran, and possibly others) will simply withdraw their women's sports teams from international competition.

However, I'm pretty sure the FIFA officials are not misogynistic: they don't hate women, and don't hate Iranian women more than any other women. What they hate is a religious practice, which they find irrational and oppressive and thus try to ban within their field of authority... with bad consequences for everyone involved.

[Big Phil]

Perhaps you should direct your outrage toward the Iranian government that forces women to wear headscarves. Oh but that's right... they don't give a shit about your outrage...

So by your logic, if i discuss the fault of one agency to which the topic relates (the FIFA), i should also discuss the fault of another group who is at fault, but unrelated to the topic (the Iranian government)?

No, I'm saying that your nerd-rage is misdirected, and should be aimed at the government of Iran. FIFA may be a bunch of dicks, but they're always a bunch of dicks. The 2022 World Cup is going to Qatar simply because they bribed enough voters - that's a far bigger deal in my mind.

But it's nice to see that you can't actually say anything in defense of the FIFA.

You're outraged because FIFA didn't provide rules that are "sensitive" towards the bullshit demands of a country that treats women like cattle? Your outrage is misdirected, especially your expectations that FIFA take responsibility for encouraging social change in Iran; that's not FIFA's job.

For fucks sake, if you think it's that fucking important to promote social change in Iran, then you fucking go there and do what you need to do to make the social change happen. But of course, you're not willing to do that... instead you sit safely behind your computer and scream impotent rage at FIFA for not championing the cause of women in Iran. That's just silly.

[Simon_Jester]

Sanchez, there's a difference between "not doing anything about" the problems of women in Iran and deliberately making those problems worse through some kind of bizarre misguided dickishness.

You are not necessarily under an obligation to save a drowning man. You are, however, under an obligation not to throw him an anchor when he needs a life preserver.

FIFA is making the Iranian women athletes' problems worse, by imposing an arbitrary and unnecessary restriction that guarantees their government will forbid them to play in international competitions. They should not do that, because it hurts some people and helps no one, and the only reasons for doing it don't make any damn sense.

*And how ridiculous is it that you demand everyone who has an opinion on this go to Iran and attempt some kind of farcical intervention in that country, with its xenophobic and intolerant government?

[Big Phil]

Sanchez, there's a difference between "not doing anything about" the problems of women in Iran and deliberately making those problems worse through some kind of bizarre misguided dickishness.

You are not necessarily under an obligation to save a drowning man. You are, however, under an obligation not to throw him an anchor when he needs a life preserver.

FIFA is making the Iranian women athletes' problems worse, by imposing an arbitrary and unnecessary restriction that guarantees their government will forbid them to play in international competitions. They should not do that, because it hurts some people and helps no one, and the only reasons for doing it don't make any damn sense.

Can you (or someone else) please PROVE the assertion that FIFA's headscarf ban is making things worse for Iranian women? That's a really inflammatory claim and I don't see any objective evidence supporting it.

*And how ridiculous is it that you demand everyone who has an opinion on this go to Iran and attempt some kind of farcical intervention in that country, with its xenophobic and intolerant government?

Is it any more farcical than Serafina's argument that:

Or the women didn't want to wear the headscarves and only did so due to outside pressure. In that case the FIFA only supported their oppression, rather than helping them to fight against that pressure by altering the headscarves.

[Serafina]

Can you (or someone else) please PROVE the assertion that FIFA's headscarf ban is making things worse for Iranian women? That's a really inflammatory claim and I don't see any objective evidence supporting it.

Seriously? Yeez you're a dumb one.

They are robbed of female icons. You know, women who actually transgress into a male domain (sports) and are successful independent of men? You know, those women who were just banned by the FIFA?
That's not just a lack of improvement, that's taking away an improvement.
It's not a catastrophic impact, but it's clearly negative.

*And how ridiculous is it that you demand everyone who has an opinion on this go to Iran and attempt some kind of farcical intervention in that country, with its xenophobic and intolerant government?

Is it any more farcical than Serafina's argument that:

Or the women didn't want to wear the headscarves and only did so due to outside pressure. In that case the FIFA only supported their oppression, rather than helping them to fight against that pressure by altering the headscarves.

Yeez, i don't know. Let's compare, shall we?
Your statement boils down to "you don't get to complain unless you try what i demand you do against it".
Mine boils down to "Banning women from playing sports supports patriarchy and misogyny regardless of the reason for the ban".

Do you understand that? Even if the FIFA had the best possible reasons or intentions, the ban of the Iranian womens football team ultimately supports the Iranian patriarchy. It's only result is that the womens team is no longer allowed to play - it won't help them gain any more independence and it will not force the Iranian society or government to give them any more rights.

Your statement boils down to "you do not get to complain about anything unless you meet some arbitrarily high standard". You know what? By that standard, this is also invalid:

No, I'm saying that your nerd-rage is misdirected, and should be aimed at the government of Iran. FIFA may be a bunch of dicks, but they're always a bunch of dicks. The 2022 World Cup is going to Qatar simply because they bribed enough voters - that's a far bigger deal in my mind.

Unless you moved to Qatar and did everything possible to stop such bribery. Or tried to become the head of the FIFA or something. Bit of a double standard, don't you think?

[TheHammer]

Sanchez, there's a difference between "not doing anything about" the problems of women in Iran and deliberately making those problems worse through some kind of bizarre misguided dickishness.

You are not necessarily under an obligation to save a drowning man. You are, however, under an obligation not to throw him an anchor when he needs a life preserver.

FIFA is making the Iranian women athletes' problems worse, by imposing an arbitrary and unnecessary restriction that guarantees their government will forbid them to play in international competitions. They should not do that, because it hurts some people and helps no one, and the only reasons for doing it don't make any damn sense.

Can you (or someone else) please PROVE the assertion that FIFA's headscarf ban is making things worse for Iranian women? That's a really inflammatory claim and I don't see any objective evidence supporting it.

By including an arbitrary requirement that essentially guarantees they will be barred from international competition makes things worse for Iranian women. Exclusion from the international community helps to promote the backward isolationist policies Iran already has in place. I'm sure there are many "old school" Iranians who are happy that this ruling happened. That way their women can get back to "doing what they are supposed to do".

[Thanas]

Just a note - I edited the title so that people with word filters on work PCs can read it.

[Big Phil]

Can you (or someone else) please PROVE the assertion that FIFA's headscarf ban is making things worse for Iranian women? That's a really inflammatory claim and I don't see any objective evidence supporting it.

Let me paraphrase your entire post:

SNIP - emotional whining - SNIP. You didn't prove a damned thing... you just restated your opinion.

FIFA didn't ban women - FIFA banned headscarves, something which doesn't affect women from any country other than Iran and similarly backwards Muslim states. But no, please continue the tirade.

By including an arbitrary requirement that essentially guarantees they will be barred from international competition makes things worse for Iranian women. Exclusion from the international community helps to promote the backward isolationist policies Iran already has in place. I'm sure there are many "old school" Iranians who are happy that this ruling happened. That way their women can get back to "doing what they are supposed to do".

And here's someone else expecting FIFA to take responsibility for Iran's mistreatment of its women. That's not FIFA's responsibility

[Big Phil]

By including an arbitrary requirement that essentially guarantees they will be barred from international competition makes things worse for Iranian women. Exclusion from the international community helps to promote the backward isolationist policies Iran already has in place. I'm sure there are many "old school" Iranians who are happy that this ruling happened. That way their women can get back to "doing what they are supposed to do".

By the way, here is the link to FIFA's Equipment Regulations: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournam ... 010_en.pdf

If you're so inclined, I'd encourage you to read through this and try and find the non-arbitrary requirements. The argument that a headscarf ban is arbitrary doesn't really apply, since NEARLY EVERY SINGLE ONE of FIFA's equipment requirements is arbitrary.

[Serafina]

And here's someone else expecting FIFA to take responsibility for Iran's mistreatment of its women. That's not FIFA's responsibility

Did anyone say it was their direct responsibility?

Their OWN actions are, of course, their OWN responsibility. The consequences of their actions are clear: They damage Iranian women.

FIFA didn't ban women - FIFA banned headscarves, something which doesn't affect women from any country other than Iran and similarly backwards Muslim states. But no, please continue the tirade.

The FIFA banned the Iranian womens team, did they not?
Unless you want to tell me that there is some realistic way for them them to ever play in any other international competition ever again. Unless there is, this is a clear ban.

By the way, this was a giant strawman. I never complained that "FIFA banned women". I DID complain that they banned the Iranian womens football team. Since there is no possibility for them to circumvent the (pointless) "ban of headscarves", they are for all practical purposes banned. Everything else is just pointless hairsplitting.


So Sanchez. Do you have anything to add other than "hurfdurf you're just emotional"?

[Thanas]

Hey guys - did none of the people who go "rargh, Fifa so stupid" ever think about the reason such rules exist? Because Football is supposed to be neutral, free from politics and religion? Does that count so little to you that you demand that Fifa now should allow religious symbols? Can you imagine the troubles that could cause on the field, if, say, Israel and Saudi-Arabia meet?

[Serafina]

By including an arbitrary requirement that essentially guarantees they will be barred from international competition makes things worse for Iranian women. Exclusion from the international community helps to promote the backward isolationist policies Iran already has in place. I'm sure there are many "old school" Iranians who are happy that this ruling happened. That way their women can get back to "doing what they are supposed to do".

By the way, here is the link to FIFA's Equipment Regulations: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournam ... 010_en.pdf

If you're so inclined, I'd encourage you to read through this and try and find the non-arbitrary requirements. The argument that a headscarf ban is arbitrary doesn't really apply, since NEARLY EVERY SINGLE ONE of FIFA's equipment requirements is arbitrary.

So what if every other rule is arbitrary? Since when are arbitrary rules a necessity?
And since the rule is arbitrary by your own admission, the ban of the Iranian womens team is ALSO arbitrary. Why defend it then?

Fact is that the actions of the FIFA hinder Iranian women. That it is done for arbitrary reasons doesn't make it any better - rather the opposite.

[Serafina]

Hey guys - did none of the people who go "rargh, Fifa so stupid" ever think about the reason such rules exist? Because Football is supposed to be neutral, free from politics and religion? Does that count so little to you that you demand that Fifa now should allow religious symbols? Can you imagine the troubles that could cause on the field, if, say, Israel and Saudi-Arabia meet?

I'd agree, except that the players specifically designed a compromise in order to avoid this problem and still be allowed to compete by their country and the FIFA.

In the end, this does nothing to discourage such traditions. In fact the women somewhat challenged the tradition, but when hardliners meet hardliners you can hardly expect acceptance for a compromise.


Also, a headscarf might be a type of religious symbol, but it is NOT comparable to an iconographic symbol such as a cross - or a star of David, which is right on Israels flag. Does the FIFA demand that religious icons are removed from the teams flag? Or christian crosses from other flags? After all those flags are worn on every players shirt.
If not, then your complaint is invalid, unless you are fine with such hypocrisy.