Something beneath the South Pacific

[SpaceMarine93]

From Wikipedia, articles talked about a series of sounds that had been recorded in the South Pacific:

The Bloop:

The sound, traced to somewhere around 50° S 100° W (a remote point in the south Pacific Ocean west of the southern tip of South America), was detected several times by the Equatorial Pacific Ocean autonomous hydrophone array, which uses U.S. Navy equipment originally designed to detect Soviet submarines.

According to the NOAA description, it "rises rapidly in frequency over about one minute and was of sufficient amplitude to be heard on multiple sensors, at a range of over 5,000 km." The NOAA's Dr. Christopher Fox does not believe its origin is man-made, such as a submarine or bomb, or familiar geological events such as volcanoes or earthquakes. While the audio profile of the Bloop does resemble that of a living creature, the source is a mystery both because it is different from known sounds and because it was several times louder than the loudest known animal, the blue whale.

Dr. Christopher Fox of the NOAA speculated that the Bloop may be ice calving in Antarctica. A year later Dr. Fox was paraphrased speculating it was likely animal in origin.

Five other significant unexplained sounds have been named by NOAA: Julia, Train, Slow Down, Whistle and Upsweep. Three include:

Julia:

"Julia" is a sound recorded on March 1, 1999 by the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). NOAA said the source of the sound was unknown, but sufficiently loud to be heard over the entire Equatorial Pacific Ocean autonomous hydrophone array. It lasted for about 15 seconds, and its origin was in the equatorial Pacific Ocean at approximately 15° S 98° W.

Slowdown:

The name was given because the sound slowly decreases in frequency over about 7 minutes. The sound was detected at 15°S 115°W. It was recorded using an autonomous hydrophone array.[1] The sound has been picked up several times each year since 1997. One of the hypotheses on the origin of the sound is moving ice in Antarctica. Sound spectrograms of friction closely resemble the spectrogram of the Slow Down. This suggests the source of the sound could be a friction phenomenon of ice rubbing over land.

Upsweep:

This sound was present when PMEL began recording SOSUS in August, 1991. It consists of a long train of narrow-band upsweeping sounds of several seconds duration each. The source level is high enough to be recorded throughout the Pacific. It appears to be seasonal, generally reaching peaks in spring and fall, but it is unclear whether this is due to changes in the source or seasonal changes in the propagation environment. The source can be roughly located at 54o S, 140oW, near the location of inferred volcanic seismicity, but the origin of the sound is unresolved. The overall source level has been declining since 1991 but the sounds can still be detected on NOAA's equatorial autonomous hydrophone arrays.

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Here's the kicker: all of these mysterious noises originates from roughly the same area of the South Pacific Ocean near Patagonia, Easter Island and other parts of the ocean nearby. All of which are unidentified, and above all, most likely of organic origin, albeit very large ones. I am not starting any conspiracy theories here or am I crazy, but these in my point of view suggests that there is something underneath the waves in that area of the South Pacific, the question is, what?

Its likely that apart from the Bloop, all the other ones are merely something murdane and natural. Though personally I wish that there is something interesting down there to find out. Who knows? We might actually find R'lyeh and Cthulhu.

[LaCroix]

Slowdown and Upsweep are most likely geologic, so I doubt it's Cthulhu snoring.

'Known' origins of maybe organic sounds:
Bloop: 50°S 100°W
Julia: 15°S 98°W

It might be that Cthulhu is frickin huge and one was a fart and the other a burp, but I wouldn't count on it.

Don't get you hopes up... you will get devoured last...

[doom3607]

Well, that's actually not that far off where R'lyeh was supposed to be- the location Lovecraft gave was 47°9′S 126°43′W. Maybe it is Cthulhu snoring. Maybe the stars are becoming right.

[Hawkwings]

I thought of Terror From the Deep, actually. Wrong location, but eh, minor details.

Does investigating this phenomenon worth sticking some more microphones and sensors in the area? Or is it simply a curiosity and not worth the effort?

[Thanas]

doom, Hawkwings, you better shape up fast. Spammy posts like these will not be tolerated.

[madd0ct0r]

well the entire thread is a bit silly really.

i don't think it can be organic: you have one julia and 'several' bloops over 50 years?

A single mating cry every 3 years?

seems pretty unlikely.

[Iroscato]

well the entire thread is a bit silly really.

i don't think it can be organic: you have one julia and 'several' bloops over 50 years?

A single mating cry every 3 years?

seems pretty unlikely.

Okay, if there is something there, and I'm not saying I believe in this, but a mating cry heard over 5000 km would more than likely get heard by...whatever it was aimed at. Also, a creature large enough to emit a cry that loud would have an incredibly slow metabolism, surely?
Disclaimer: I'm a 17 year old college student, and I really am not claiming to know much at all about biology, it's just a bit of harmless theorising.

[Thanas]

Okay. Here is how it goes.

This thread stays locked until somebody PMs me (or any other SLAM moderator) a good contribution to it.

[Thanas]

Thread reopened in light of a PM from our resident mad scientist.

[madd0ct0r]

damint. Thans, could you delete the above post, missed the editing deadline despite having the window open.

Roight, there are one thing obvious in this thread, and one thing missing.

the obvious thing is wishful thinking.

Okay, if there is something there, and I'm not saying I believe in this, but a mating cry heard over 5000 km would more than likely get heard by...whatever it was aimed at. Also, a creature large enough to emit a cry that loud would have an incredibly slow metabolism, surely?
Disclaimer: I'm a 17 year old college student, and I really am not claiming to know much at all about biology, it's just a bit of harmless theorising.

Harmless theorising will always lead to the conclusion 'there's summat big down there' because that's the result we'd quite like (as nerds who wonder at the universe).
If the same number of bloops had been detected all over the place, Spacemarine93 might be talking about some huge creature that is clearly nomadic or migratory, with the sounds possibly representing 'meeting and mating' places along the route.

Basically I'm saying no matter how hard I try and debunk this, you'll all want to believe it anyway. I'm not any better, giant unknown animals are cool and it's a relatively harmless belief. But this is SLAM, not the sci-fi forum and we should be a bit more rigorous with our statements.

Going back to my opening statement, there is also something missing. That is examination of how friggen loud the sound (espcially bloop and julia). 'Bloop is several times louder then the loudest known animal, the blue whale.'
Lets put that into perspective.
Volcanic Eruption: 275 decibels
Blue Whale (max): 188 decibels
Jet plane: 140 decibels
Human pain threshold: 120 decibels
Ciccada (max): 120 decibels.

Remember that decibels are also logarithmic, so he might mean several times more energy or several times the decibel level. Since he wasn't speaking rigorously, i'll assume the latter.
Just for fun, lets try an upper and lower size for a hypothetical animal. I'll assume several = 3x.
Blue Whale Monster: 10^3*25m: 25km long. That's pretty damn big. infeasibly big.
Aquatic Cicada Monster: 10^3*5cm: 50m long. Twice as big as a blue whale. That might even be possible.

NB. decibels in air and water are set to different ratios, so to convert the cicada you have to add 62 Db, conveniently making it the same as a blue whale.

So: the napkin calculation above suggests (to my surprise) that the size might be plausible but it only makes a single short call every few years and clearly doesn't have many friends otherwise we'd have found more evidence by now (see giant squid). The cicada's call is a highly evolved mating mechanism. To achieve similar efficiency, it'd have to be equally important to the monster. So why are 'bloops' so rare?


So what else could it be?

well, nature can be bloody loud:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_sand , http://www.sonicwonders.org/?p=1025
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum , espcially the final segment about colliding ocean waves
ice berg calving: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fGHlEBvKYw


Rememberer that sounds travels much faster in water, so a familiar sound will be 'compressed' into a shorter time span. so the sound of the iceberg hitting the water would be a much more solid thump. See also the difference in decibels. Also remember that water blocks high frequency sound much better then low frequency. What we're hearing is only part of the original sound. (yes, I'm aware that undermines my argument that the sound is too infrequent to be organic)

there's also the usual volcanic stuff, but that's been ruled out. That's not to say it couldn't be an unusual volcanic event though. The sheer energy contained in the sound requires something really quite powerful going on. I've been considering vortice shedding from occasional currents passing over rock formations, but it's hard to prove the energy levels are capable.

Anybody fancy calculating how much krill you'd have to eat to be able to produce such sounds? Linear guesswork from the blue whale seems reasonable.

there's also falling meteorites, although i don't think it applies. included mostly because of fond childhood memories. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4quxN02-Rwo

[Thanas]

DP deleted upon request of author.

[Iroscato]

damint. Thans, could you delete the above post, missed the editing deadline despite having the window open.

Roight, there are one thing obvious in this thread, and one thing missing.

the obvious thing is wishful thinking.

Okay, if there is something there, and I'm not saying I believe in this, but a mating cry heard over 5000 km would more than likely get heard by...whatever it was aimed at. Also, a creature large enough to emit a cry that loud would have an incredibly slow metabolism, surely?
Disclaimer: I'm a 17 year old college student, and I really am not claiming to know much at all about biology, it's just a bit of harmless theorising.

Harmless theorising will always lead to the conclusion 'there's summat big down there' because that's the result we'd quite like (as nerds who wonder at the universe).
If the same number of bloops had been detected all over the place, Spacemarine93 might be talking about some huge creature that is clearly nomadic or migratory, with the sounds possibly representing 'meeting and mating' places along the route.

Basically I'm saying no matter how hard I try and debunk this, you'll all want to believe it anyway. I'm not any better, giant unknown animals are cool and it's a relatively harmless belief. But this is SLAM, not the sci-fi forum and we should be a bit more rigorous with our statements.

Going back to my opening statement, there is also something missing. That is examination of how friggen loud the sound (espcially bloop and julia). 'Bloop is several times louder then the loudest known animal, the blue whale.'
Lets put that into perspective.
Volcanic Eruption: 275 decibels
Blue Whale (max): 188 decibels
Jet plane: 140 decibels
Human pain threshold: 120 decibels
Ciccada (max): 120 decibels.

Remember that decibels are also logarithmic, so he might mean several times more energy or several times the decibel level. Since he wasn't speaking rigorously, i'll assume the latter.
Just for fun, lets try an upper and lower size for a hypothetical animal. I'll assume several = 3x.
Blue Whale Monster: 10^3*25m: 25km long. That's pretty damn big. infeasibly big.
Aquatic Cicada Monster: 10^3*5cm: 50m long. Twice as big as a blue whale. That might even be possible.

NB. decibels in air and water are set to different ratios, so to convert the cicada you have to add 62 Db, conveniently making it the same as a blue whale.

So: the napkin calculation above suggests (to my surprise) that the size might be plausible but it only makes a single short call every few years and clearly doesn't have many friends otherwise we'd have found more evidence by now (see giant squid). The cicada's call is a highly evolved mating mechanism. To achieve similar efficiency, it'd have to be equally important to the monster. So why are 'bloops' so rare?


So what else could it be?

well, nature can be bloody loud:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_sand , http://www.sonicwonders.org/?p=1025
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum , espcially the final segment about colliding ocean waves
ice berg calving: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fGHlEBvKYw


Rememberer that sounds travels much faster in water, so a familiar sound will be 'compressed' into a shorter time span. so the sound of the iceberg hitting the water would be a much more solid thump. See also the difference in decibels. Also remember that water blocks high frequency sound much better then low frequency. What we're hearing is only part of the original sound. (yes, I'm aware that undermines my argument that the sound is too infrequent to be organic)

there's also the usual volcanic stuff, but that's been ruled out. That's not to say it couldn't be an unusual volcanic event though. The sheer energy contained in the sound requires something really quite powerful going on. I've been considering vortice shedding from occasional currents passing over rock formations, but it's hard to prove the energy levels are capable.

Anybody fancy calculating how much krill you'd have to eat to be able to produce such sounds? Linear guesswork from the blue whale seems reasonable.

there's also falling meteorites, although i don't think it applies. included mostly because of fond childhood memories. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4quxN02-Rwo

Thanks for clearing it up, I was just throwing it out there and you caught it and ate it alive.

[Ahriman238]

I agree it's unlikely to be biological, which only raises questions of what it could be.

On the one hand, I find it comforting that the world still holds mysteries. On the other hand, I find it terrifying that the world sitll holds mysteries. No one (well, almost no one. Well, few people) ever died from a danger they foresaw.

[HMS Sophia]

No one (well, almost no one. Well, few people) ever died from a danger they foresaw.

I'm pretty damn sure the boys at the Somme foresaw the danger of walking towards machine-guns...

[Ahriman238]

I'm pretty damn sure the boys at the Somme foresaw the danger of walking towards machine-guns...

Fair point. Plus we seem to going that way regarding global warning.

But you can understand why I'd think strange things not yet explainable by science could be very, very, bad?

[HMS Sophia]

But you can understand why I'd think strange things not yet explainable by science could be very, very, bad?

Oh I do
I was just rectifying a... strange choice of phrase