Dalek vs. Phase III Dark Trooper

[NecronLord]

The power-up thing from Dalek is obviously no

Effective range of heavy anti aircraft guns in that period is not more then about two thirds of max range. You also still needed about ten thousand rounds per kill in 1941.

Yes, I'm aware that to paraphrase one veteran, the thing AA guns were best for was civilian morale. But they don't say outside of engagement range, or effective range, they say out of range.

Of course, we see one engage a whole squadron of german planes at much shorter range later, where it wipes them out in three seconds flat, it is, at least at that range, much more accurate.

Does anyone know the crew complement of a Dalek saucer? If it's close to even force sizes then the troopers end up dead.

Depends on the size. We see one operating with one. The Second Doctor quotes two thousand. The Doctor Who Visual Dictionary states that the Emperor's saucer has a crew/passenger complement of over a million.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The Imperial Dalek mothership from Remembrance had a crew of 400 according to the Seventh Doctor.

In "Parting of the Ways" the Doctor IIRC remarks that with 200 ships there are nearly half a million Daleks, giving 2,500 Daleks per saucer.

[Captain Seafort]

In "Parting of the Ways" the Doctor IIRC remarks that with 200 ships there are nearly half a million Daleks, giving 2,500 Daleks per saucer.

He also specifically stated that each ship had a crew of 2000, suggesting they're either the same class or a similar one to the one that Two encountered. The extra 100k were probably on the flagship.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Damn, forgot that bit. Oh well, 2000 is still a lot of Daleks.

Even if it's an ISd with it's 9,700 strong Stormtrooper force thigns are going to be interesting. Expect a lot of body bags.

Of course, if these are the same Daleks we see from "Parting of the Ways" they could also use the cells from the dead Imps to grow more Daleks.

[ChosenOne54]

Yeah, any boarding action is gonna turn out really badly.

I also doubt a couple shots from an ion cannon would disable a Dalek saucer that easily; it is my understanding that they have shields strong enough to tank supernovae quite easily.

[Batman]

Ion cannon essentially work on magic technobabble so whether or not they'd work is completely up for grabs.

And technically, tanking a supernova is pathetically easy. Just be far enough away from it and you're fine. So how close to that supernova were those Dalek ships allegedly tanking it?

[ChosenOne54]

Ion cannon essentially work on magic technobabble so whether or not they'd work is completely up for grabs.

And technically, tanking a supernova is pathetically easy. Just be far enough away from it and you're fine. So how close to that supernova were those Dalek ships allegedly tanking it?

Well it's basically conjecture, but the Doctor's Tardis could tank supernovae very easily (not sure of the distance, but I believe the Doctor would ride on the shockwaves of supernovae for fun or something), and fly out of black holes and the like (I've read). And the Doctor's Tardis was horrendously outdated by the Time War, considered practically ancient by both the Daleks and Time Lords. Dalek saucers have weapons that were expected to one-shot the Doctor's tardis, and I think it's safe to assume that Dalek saucers have shields at least on par with the tardis.

[Batman]

So essentially, you don't know beans. Give me some numbers and then we'll talk.

[ChosenOne54]

Hm? How do I not know anything?

They ride on the shockwaves of supernovae. That should tell you something about their shields. What is the TNT equivalent of a supernova?

Dalek ship weaponry can melt entire continents and shatter planets. What amount of TNT is required to shatter a planet?

[Big Orange]

The Dalek saucer from "Victory of the Daleks", a lone and battered survivor from the Crucible's flotilla of small warships, demonstrated that it had a effector beam that could turn on all the lights in a major city, with no way to turn the lights off through hitting switches or shutting down grids (insinuating it was perhaps the Dalek beam that was inputting the power directly into the lights from the Dalek ship).

[ChosenOne54]

Hey, well I just found this. About 4 minutes in, the Doctor presses a few buttons and just creates a Supernova.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0cyxb2k ... 0cyxb2kG9E

[Batman]

Hm? How do I not know anything?
They ride on the shockwaves of supernovae. That should tell you something about their shields.

If we knew the distance at which they do this it would. That distance being?

What is the TNT equivalent of a supernova?[/i]
Irrelevant, actually, as virtually none of it will hit the Dalek ship. Omnidirectional events tend to be that way.

Dalek ship weaponry can melt entire continents and shatter planets. What amount of TNT is required to shatter a planet?

Entirely depends on the damage mechanism and completely irrelevant to their shield resilience.

The Dalek saucer from "Victory of the Daleks", a lone and battered survivor from the Crucible's flotilla of small warships, demonstrated that it had a effector beam that could turn on all the lights in a major city, with no way to turn the lights off through hitting switches or shutting down grids (insinuating it was perhaps the Dalek beam that was inputting the power directly into the lights from the Dalek ship).

Which amounts to what, a couple GW high end?

[ChosenOne54]

In the video I just posted, about 4 minutes in the Doctor uses his tardis (once again, practically ancient tech compared to Time War level) to generate a supernova to cancel out a black hole from pretty much the very centre of the blast. So... yeah.

[Batman]

Which tells us...nothing. The ability to trigger a supernova has jack all to do with the ability to survive a supernova at a distance of...oh wait, you can't seem to be arsed to provided that information.

[ChosenOne54]

The Tardis generates it. Which means they have to be near the centre of the blast, as the whole point of doing it was to cancel out the black hole they were in.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Even pre-Time War Dalek ships carry planet busting weapons. The ship from Remembance was stated by the Doctor as capabale of "Cracking open this planet like an egg." Now that gives you a lower limit of the 1e32 J figure for actually destroying a world from the main site.

[mr friendly guy]

Even pre-Time War Dalek ships carry planet busting weapons. The ship from Remembance was stated by the Doctor as capabale of "Cracking open this planet like an egg." Now that gives you a lower limit of the 1e32 J figure for actually destroying a world from the main site.

That is dialogue only. However IIRC Dalek Empire had them destroying planets quite easily. NL can most probably tell you more since I only remember bits and pieces of it. Hey since Dalek Empire is an audio, does this come under the dialogue vs visual rules.

[Eternal_Freedom]

True, it's only dialogue. In the same episode he says the ship is capable of "eradicating this planet from space"...but they won't, to avoid the damage to the timeline.

Still, it is dialogue given in the series itself rather than novels, so it carries more weight.

There is also the "Death to the Daleks" vessel which carries "Plague Missiles" that can kill everything on a planet, and that this is not apparently considered an extreme action by the Daleks. Sounds analagous to the virus bombs used in 40K Exterminatus.

[Shroom Man 777]

Even pre-Time War Dalek ships carry planet busting weapons. The ship from Remembance was stated by the Doctor as capabale of "Cracking open this planet like an egg." Now that gives you a lower limit of the 1e32 J figure for actually destroying a world from the main site.

No. Cracking an egg implies that only the hard outer layer has been damaged while the liquidy inner mass (yolk and egg whites) remains intact. If the Earth is an egg, then the crust is the shell and the egg white is the mantle and the yolk is the core, and that Dalek ship only has the firepower to crack the eggshell open but otherwise not damage the egg white mantle or the yolk core - unless the Doctor stated that the Daleks ships could also fry the egg yolk and egg white like a frying pan, or scramble it like an egg beater. Again, sloppy dialogues and metaphors, just like all those samples of dialogue Trekkies bring up. Concession accepted.

More seriously. In Journey's End, did the Daleks move those planets with their ships or with the Crucible? IF they did it with their saucers, that would mean their should could do great feats requiring god knows how much energy.

How much energy would it take to drag a planet like Earth, anyway? Assuming that the Earth is a spherical mass of iron. We saw visuals of the TARDIS dragging the Earth too.

[NecronLord]

More seriously. In Journey's End, did the Daleks move those planets with their ships or with the Crucible? IF they did it with their saucers, that would mean their should could do great feats requiring god knows how much energy.

They used their Magnetron (the Time Lords also had one of these in the old series), we see it in operation here.

[NecronLord]

That is dialogue only. However IIRC Dalek Empire had them destroying planets quite easily. NL can most probably tell you more since I only remember bits and pieces of it.

A single dalek trans-solar disk could blast a planet's atmosphere away, I don't recall many planets being directly destroyed in the stories, though later daleks scan a large number of asteroid fields and determine that their own weapons did the deed.