It is rather amusing to think that the British were desperatly trying to give the islands away prior to the Argit invasion, despite the opinion of the Falklanders.
I wonder what Peck's problem is though, did a Royal Marine beat him up and steal his girlfriend?
Obama Administration And the Falkland Islands Dispute
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
Re: Obama Administration And the Falkland Islands Dispute
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Re: Obama Administration And the Falkland Islands Dispute
I have a few questions for those arguing against the concept of some intergenerational entities?
1. Why do you argue that reparations paid by a government necessarily amounts to a tax on its citizens, ie YOU? Are you saying the government lacks the means to raise the money any other way? How the fuck did the US pay for its wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? I don't recall Bush ordering a tax rise.
2. I hear the UK only paid back its war debt to America a few years ago. Why should young UK tax payers (lets say Baby Boomers, downwards) be asked to pay back this debt? They weren't around when the Allies were fighting WWII. Is this generation debt a bad thing, only when its YOU who MIGHT have to pay? Does this mean that if America just drags its feet, future Americans can refuse to pay back its debt (on moral grounds if not economic ones), because you know, Generation Z certainly didn't borrow all that money from China and Japan.
In fact, I would say if paying off this "intergenerational debt" was so unjust, shouldn't you be protesting against the US Treasury 30 year bonds. Because its the kids born today who will be the tax payers of the future, and they might be the one paying off this debt.
3. There are various examples of what Stas calls intergenerational entities, who have paid off the debt of their predecessors.
For example Germany did it, and I know several Germans on this board are satisfied that their government did the right thing.
Again the debt owed between governments and other governments / individuals via bonds also occur.
Japan occasionally compensates some Chinese victims who stumble across left over WWII explosives. The current government certainly didn't put it there, yet they still compensate (too bad they won't compensate Rape of Nanking victims who are still alive, but thats another story).
Do you oppose such actions on moral grounds?
1. Why do you argue that reparations paid by a government necessarily amounts to a tax on its citizens, ie YOU? Are you saying the government lacks the means to raise the money any other way? How the fuck did the US pay for its wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? I don't recall Bush ordering a tax rise.
2. I hear the UK only paid back its war debt to America a few years ago. Why should young UK tax payers (lets say Baby Boomers, downwards) be asked to pay back this debt? They weren't around when the Allies were fighting WWII. Is this generation debt a bad thing, only when its YOU who MIGHT have to pay? Does this mean that if America just drags its feet, future Americans can refuse to pay back its debt (on moral grounds if not economic ones), because you know, Generation Z certainly didn't borrow all that money from China and Japan.
In fact, I would say if paying off this "intergenerational debt" was so unjust, shouldn't you be protesting against the US Treasury 30 year bonds. Because its the kids born today who will be the tax payers of the future, and they might be the one paying off this debt.
3. There are various examples of what Stas calls intergenerational entities, who have paid off the debt of their predecessors.
For example Germany did it, and I know several Germans on this board are satisfied that their government did the right thing.
Again the debt owed between governments and other governments / individuals via bonds also occur.
Japan occasionally compensates some Chinese victims who stumble across left over WWII explosives. The current government certainly didn't put it there, yet they still compensate (too bad they won't compensate Rape of Nanking victims who are still alive, but thats another story).
Do you oppose such actions on moral grounds?
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Re: Obama Administration And the Falkland Islands Dispute
What people are asking for is "how far back should you go". British WW2 debt, Japanese war cries against the Chinese are all well within the statute of "living memory".
Because again, those arguing in favor of the Falklands belonging to the Malvinas are talking about a time well before WW2. And in the estimation of many here, that's already too long.
Besides which, the whole statute of limitations argument is already largely moot, because the guiding principle in this case is the principle of self determination. The Falklanders want to stay British. End of story. Anything else is just useless whining by the Argentinians to distract their people from more pressing economic issues - that will totally not be solved by getting the Falklands.
Because again, those arguing in favor of the Falklands belonging to the Malvinas are talking about a time well before WW2. And in the estimation of many here, that's already too long.
Besides which, the whole statute of limitations argument is already largely moot, because the guiding principle in this case is the principle of self determination. The Falklanders want to stay British. End of story. Anything else is just useless whining by the Argentinians to distract their people from more pressing economic issues - that will totally not be solved by getting the Falklands.
Re: Obama Administration And the Falkland Islands Dispute
How could I miss this?Stas Bush wrote:If Bavaria would so desire, why not? Because Germany doesn't want it to happen? Tough luck. However, Bavaria doesn't seem to object being a part of the "German empire". Also, there's no German empire. The German government exists from 1945 and it has utterly repudiated any imperial and imperialistic character it might have had. It repudiated the concept of territorial conquest, it is antifascist and anti-militarist from inception and it only claims continuancy from the government formed in 1945.ChaserGrey wrote:Bavaria, for one example, was independent from the 8th Century A.D. until it was absorbed by Prussia in the formation of the German Empire. Should those states be independent?
This is completely wrong. In fact, Germany not only claims continuity, it claims that it is the same state. See here for a german explanation. Germany, is for all intents and purposes, the same state as the German Empire (otherwise we would not be obligated to pay reparations for the Third Reich, btw) and maintains claims to all its former territories except those claims that were given up by treaty.
Das Grundgesetz - nicht nur eine These der Völkerrechtslehre und der Staatsrechtslehre! - geht davon aus, daß das Deutsche Reich den Zusammenbruch 1945 überdauert hat und weder mit der Kapitulation noch durch Ausübung fremder Staatsgewalt in Deutschland durch die alliierten Okkupationsmächte noch später untergegangen ist; das ergibt sich aus der Präambel, aus Art. 16, Art. 23, Art. 116 und Art. 146 GG. Das entspricht auch der ständigen Rechtsprechung des Bundesverfassungsgerichts, an der der Senat festhält. Das Deutsche Reich existiert fort (BVerfGE 2, 266 [277]; 3, 288 [319 f.]; 5, 85 [126]; 6, 309 [336, 363]), besitzt nach wie vor Rechtsfähigkeit, ist allerdings als Gesamtstaat mangels Organisation, insbesondere mangels institutionalisierter Organe selbst nicht handlungsfähig. Im Grundgesetz ist auch die Auffassung vom gesamtdeutschen Staatsvolk und von der gesamtdeutschen Staatsgewalt "verankert" (BVerfGE 2, 266 [277]). Verantwortung für "Deutschland als Ganzes" tragen - auch - die vier Mächte (BVerfGE 1, 351 [362 f., 367]).
Mit der Errichtung der Bundesrepublik Deutschland wurde nicht ein neuer westdeutscher Staat gegründet, sondern ein Teil Deutschlands neu organisiert (vgl. Carlo Schmid in der 6. Sitzung des Parlamentarischen Rates - StenBer. S. 70). Die Bundesrepublik Deutschland ist also nicht "Rechtsnachfolger" des Deutschen Reiches, sondern als Staat identisch mit dem Staat "Deutsches Reich", - in bezug auf seine räumliche Ausdehnung allerdings "teilidentisch", so daß insoweit die Identität keine Ausschließlichkeit beansprucht. Die Bundesrepublik umfaßt also, was ihr Staatsvolk und ihr Staatsgebiet anlangt, nicht das ganze Deutschland, unbeschadet dessen, daß sie ein einheitliches Staatsvolk des Völkerrechtssubjekts "Deutschland" (Deutsches Reich), zu dem die eigene Bevölkerung als untrennbarer Teil gehört, und ein einheitliches Staatsgebiet "Deutschland" (Deutsches Reich), zu dem ihr eigenes Staatsgebiet als ebenfalls nicht abtrennbarer Teil gehört, anerkennt. Sie beschränkt staatsrechtlich ihre Hoheitsgewalt auf den "Geltungsbereich des Grundgesetzes" (vgl. BVerfGE 3, 288 [319 f.]; 6, 309 [338, 363]), fühlt sich aber auch verantwortlich für das ganze Deutschland (vgl. Präambel des Grundgesetzes). BVerfGE 36, 1 (16)BVerfGE 36, 1 (17)Derzeit besteht die Bundesrepublik aus den in Art. 23 GG genannten Ländern, einschließlich Berlin; der Status des Landes Berlin der Bundesrepublik Deutschland ist nur gemindert und belastet durch den sog. Vorbehalt der Gouverneure der Westmächte (BVerfGE 7, 1 [7 ff.]; 19, 377 [388]; 20, 257 [266]). Die Deutsche Demokratische Republik gehört zu Deutschland und kann im Verhältnis zur Bundesrepublik Deutschland nicht als Ausland angesehen werden (BVerfGE 11, 150 [158]). Deshalb war z.B. der Interzonenhandel und ist der ihm entsprechende innerdeutsche Handel nicht Außenhandel (BVerfGE 18, 353 [354]).
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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