Blagojevich convicted

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
SCRawl
Has a bad feeling about this.
Posts: 4191
Joined: 2002-12-24 03:11pm
Location: Burlington, Canada

Blagojevich convicted

Post by SCRawl »

I didn't see anyone posting this, so here it is.
Yahoo news wrote:CHICAGO – Rod Blagojevich, who won two terms as Illinois governor before scandal made him a national punch line, was convicted Monday of a wide range of corruption charges, including trying to sell President Barack Obama's Senate seat.

The verdict, coming after his first trial ended last year with the jury deadlocked on most charges, was a bitter defeat for Blagojevich, who spent 2 1/2 years professing his innocence on reality TV shows and later on the witness stand. His defense team insisted that hours of FBI wiretap recordings were just the ramblings of a politician who liked to think out loud.

Blagojevich becomes the second straight Illinois governor convicted of corruption. His predecessor, George Ryan, is now serving 6 1/2 years in federal prison.

When sentenced later this year, Blagojevich is virtually certain to get a significant prison term that experts said could be 10 to 15 years.
There's more if you click the link, but I didn't think it necessary to quote the entire article here.

As for my opinion: good, another crooked politician gets what's coming to him. We should hold our elected officials to a higher standard than just an ordinary schmoe, if only because their ability harm people by abusing the power we give them is that much greater.
73% of all statistics are made up, including this one.

I'm waiting as fast as I can.
User avatar
Mr Bean
Lord of Irony
Posts: 22465
Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am

Re: Blagojevich convicted

Post by Mr Bean »

SCRawl wrote:I didn't see anyone posting this, so

As for my opinion: good, another crooked politician gets what's coming to him. We should hold our elected officials to a higher standard than just an ordinary schmoe, if only because their ability harm people by abusing the power we give them is that much greater.
Dude I don't know if you know this but Blago was from Chicago They kind of have a history there

The reason people joke about having a "Governors wing" in Illinois prison is not exaggeration but because most of their Governors end up there The ones that don't end up there (Like Jim Edgar) only do so because they managed to win in court or have yet to be charged with anything yet (Quinn the current governor). Sure there have been two or three in a row who were not charged with anything during their entire time in office but if you ask anyone from Chicago who's lived their long enough they will tell you that's because they were better crooks than the others and never got caught.

Influence peddling is widely practiced art in Chicago not a Federal Offense (It's that too)

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
User avatar
SCRawl
Has a bad feeling about this.
Posts: 4191
Joined: 2002-12-24 03:11pm
Location: Burlington, Canada

Re: Blagojevich convicted

Post by SCRawl »

Yes, I'm familiar with the subset of the black arts known as "Chicago politics". It drives me crazy that this is tolerated, but it's the way things are there, and there's little chance that they'll be changing any time soon.
73% of all statistics are made up, including this one.

I'm waiting as fast as I can.
User avatar
Mr Bean
Lord of Irony
Posts: 22465
Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am

Re: Blagojevich convicted

Post by Mr Bean »

SCRawl wrote:Yes, I'm familiar with the subset of the black arts known as "Chicago politics". It drives me crazy that this is tolerated, but it's the way things are there, and there's little chance that they'll be changing any time soon.
Once is a Tragedy, Twice is an Irony, three times? That's Tradition!

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
User avatar
Covenant
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4451
Joined: 2006-04-11 07:43am

Re: Blagojevich convicted

Post by Covenant »

It's also an entirely different culture of corruption than most outsiders may think. I can understand why they're confused about it, but it isn't the sort of thing you'd experience as a local and think "Wow that's horribly corrupt!" At least, nine times out of ten. We know they're all crooks anyway, we just want them to do some glad-handing and keep their promises. If only Governors could be as effective as Mayors...

Influence peddling and the alderman system we have in here contributes to a very unique kind of influence to peddle. It's still corrupt, but it's corrupt in a kind of way that the average voter doesn't really feel the sting of often, so we don't really have the same kind of horrified reaction to it that other people might. Lining your pockets is one thing, but trading Thanksgiving Turkeys for votes, or making sure your street gets plowed, that kind of stuff doesn't really bug people as much.

The real reason we drop the Governors so hard is because they're not doing as much local stuff. It's not favors and handouts, it's more like high-end "if you want to see me, do X" or such things. If they were out there making sure the buses arrived on time, I doubt people would care to invest so much energy in escorting them to the slammer.

I actually heard an interesting BBC story about it once. Listened to it on my way to and from my job right in downtown right in the middle of construction season.
User avatar
Tiriol
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2038
Joined: 2005-09-15 11:31am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Blagojevich convicted

Post by Tiriol »

This one was actually reported by Finnish news agencies as well. I don't know if it has any connection to the fact that in recent years political corruption and Good Old Boys' (and Girls', as well) Networks have come under increased scrutiny.

A question to those more familiar with Chicago political establishment: is there actually any chance of getting it to be less corrupt or will the politicians continue to play Berlusconi Roulette until the Judgment Day and the trumpet sounds?
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti; beatae Mariae semper Virgini; beato Michaeli Archangelo; sanctis Apostolis, omnibus sanctis... Tibit Pater, quia peccavi nimis, cogitatione, verbo et opere, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Kyrie Eleison!

The Imperial Senate (defunct) * Knights Astrum Clades * The Mess
User avatar
Covenant
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4451
Joined: 2006-04-11 07:43am

Re: Blagojevich convicted

Post by Covenant »

I don't think Berlusconi would survive in Chicago politics. What you need to do is make sure you're kicking back to the people who got you there, but not just donors and such, but like neighborhoods and small-time officials and contractors and such. Think of normal "Hey, if you make it big, help my kid find a job" kind of stuff that friends do for other friends. Now apply that to webs of influence and politics. Bam! You got some Chicago-style Corruption. No ketchup and sport peppers on a greased-palm. You gotta give something back to the neighborhoods or they'll find someone they like better.

That's why you see so much patronage, money-fudgery, and influence peddling without it being the kind of thing that grinds the state to a halt. 99% of Illinois is not Chicago in the slightest. When people talk about "Chicago Politics" the Governor is not the best example--which is partially why they always fail to stay out of trouble. That's why it's very much a different kind of "corrupt" than other forms of corruption. It's more like "corrupt" the way HR Departments are corrupt. You get 99 applicants, but hey Joe know this one and says he's a good guy, so let's bring him in. That's how I got my job, and I'd call that pretty corrupt and unfair.

When Blago was complaining that he was busting his ass for people and not getting anything for it, he meant it pretty much literally that he felt he was doing his side of the deal and wasn't getting the support that those free bus rides and parades and stuff. It's politics at it's most basic popularity-contest roots, and I personally like the idea of having a noose around your leader's neck to make sure they're on their toes, but corruption is corruption and it's never good for the system. So I'll stop short of defending it.

That said, I don't think it'll ever stop until you change the "help each other out" culture to politics, which would be hard to do. It's hard to pass up actual face-to-face "I'm gonna help you out" style vote-buying. It doesn't even FEEL like corruption.
User avatar
ChaserGrey
Jedi Knight
Posts: 501
Joined: 2010-10-17 11:04pm

Re: Blagojevich convicted

Post by ChaserGrey »

CNN says Blago is "stunned" by his conviction.

Well, I guess someone has to be... :D
Lt. Brown, Mr. Grey, and Comrade Syeriy on Let's Play BARIS
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28846
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Blagojevich convicted

Post by Broomstick »

Image

For those not clear on the reference - in the US most vehicle license plates are made by convicts in prison.

In theory, Blago and another former Illinois governor, Ryan, could become cellmates.

Covenant has a pretty good grasp on the corruption angle. Something like 1,000 government officials from Illinois since 1970 have gone to jail, the bulk from Chicago though with four convicted governors the taint is certainly not limited to Chicago.

Chicago corruption actually comes in several flavors. For example, Covenant got his job by "knowing someone", that usually falls under patronage. Patronage is also rewarding your troops after a successful election by getting them jobs.

There is nepotism, the promotion of relatives. Cook County Board of Commissers President Todd Stroger, son of John Stroger, Jr. is the most recent blatant example of this. He got the job because of who his daddy was, and proceeded to enrich his extended family.

There is authoritarianism, which is "strong-man" rule. Both mayors Daley have been referred to as "King Daley", and both committed acts which were frankly illegal with no consequences. Mayor in Chicago really can be above the law, at least the local law. The Feds have been cracking down on this, but corruption is so entrenched it's a long battle.

There is bribery - at one point Chicago actually published a schedule of bribes in an official manner (back in the 1920's). OK, get this - for many (though not all) locals in the Chicago area there outrage not because of bribery from Blago's office, but because the perception is Blago didn't deliver. Hence this t-shit:
Image

And last, but definitely not least, there's the back-and-forth between elected officials and the elected, which Covenant also alluded to. Political donors in Chicago not only donate money, but time, effort, and material goods. For example, political office space at low or no rent. Donation of food, catering, security, space, etc for rallies and fundraisers. For the low-level flunkies, lots of working the neighborhood on foot, putting out signs for their guy, frank stealing of campaign signs of the opposition, and so forth. In return, the elected official is supposed to give pay back - in one Northwest Indiana suburb of Chicago everyone who worked on the winning mayor's campaign got a new sidewalk and driveway, paid for out of city funds that went to the contractor(s) that supported the mayor's campaign. Nothing unusual, but it all went pear-shaped when the contractor got a little carried away, repaved the sidewalks/driveways of people unconnected to the mayor and politics, who got suspicious, and the bill for all the concrete vastly exceed the mayor's estimates and couldn't be buried by shady accounting, so at first the mayor tried to pay the original agreed upon sum, which pissed off the contractor, and then the mayor enlisted some of the city council to try cover the cost... something like 8-10 people went to jail by the time the dust settled.

This sort of shit goes on all the time in the Chicago area, but doesn't always result in convictions. Other forms of payback included guaranteed jobs for campaign workers - in some cases making them "ghost workers" who are employed by the city on paper but never actually show up, often having another job that is their actual job while collecting a city paycheck. And that is why corruption is so incredibly widespread and entrenched in the area - the little people benefit, too. The lowest level campaign worker can gain materially and fiscally by his/her participation in this. I had a co-worker once who, as a 20 year old, was paid thousands of dollars in cash to simply steal the competition's campaign signs during an election (it was to "compensate" her for the use of her car). When her alderman won he helped her get a scholarship to the city colleges of Chicago, and her cash paid for the first year of schooling there. That was just one flunky from one election. Even the little people profit from the corruption, and they've been doing it so long they regard it as business as usual and no longer see anything wrong with it.

I've been told time and again by native Chicagoans that the tales of corruption are greatly exaggerated, and that it's exactly the same everywhere else. No, it's not. They just can't see it. The level of corruption in Chicago far exceeds anything I've seen anywhere else, to the point it's become the normal way of doing business. Getting rid of corruption in Chicago means completely reformulating how both government and much private business operates from the ground up, basically reconstructing the entire system, which isn't likely to happen because so many people not only accept it, they like it because they benefit from it. Not only that, but I've encountered folks who are genuinely puzzled that any city could work without such blatant and open patronage, nepotism, bribery, pay-to-play, and other corruption. They just don't understand that a city can work without all that. The concept is alien to them - to the extent that back when my spouse ran a marching band there were several occasions were members from the old-school Chicago machine attempted to bribe their way to greater influence within the organization and got mad when he wouldn't accept their bribes and demanded they actually become better musicians to advance in standing. "The Shanon Rovers don't do it that way! The Emerald Society doesn't do it that way!" No, they don't - the Shanon Rovers came out of the Masons in Chicago and had other priorities than becoming world-class musicians, and the Emerald Society is the police department band, which, well, they're the Chicago Police, and infamous for being willing to show up for beer rather than money. We sent those folks to the Shannon Rovers, where they were much happier as they understood how that system worked. What, I have to practice and actually memorize the music rather than give a fifth of whiskey to the band leader to get ahead?

Another example of the back and forth - in the 1980's I was dating someone from Cicero (Chicago suburb, famous for being associated with Al Capone). Apparently, at the time in Cicero there was a hidden camera (which everyone knew about) above the voting booths recording who voted for whom. If you voted for the "right" candidate, then subsequent speeding tickets and other moving violations would be "taken care of" (made to go away). That was your reward for voting "properly". Apparently, it worked - there were people who chronically speeded through Cicero who would be ticketed, then found on a list, and then the ticket torn up. Don't know if this is still going on - one of the main politicians promoting this system is (surprise) now in Federal prison.

Again, the common man not only accepts this, he profits from it. As much as the politicians are being bribed, they're bribing the little people in return.

The thing is, between the Imperial Mayor and the surprisingly structured corruption, the city actually does work on a certain level. The garbage gets picked up, the streets are cleared after a snow-storm, the street lights stay on... as long as the basic municipal stuff is taken care of most folks don't seem to mind the corruption so much. Chicago has one of the lowest rat populations in a large city because at once point King Daley said We Will Reduce the Rat Population, which included things like police entering private property without permission or warrant and enforcing new rules on garbage disposal which were illegal in method, but got the job done. Also required the replaced of garbage bins and dumpsters across the city - which immensely profited a couple of Daley-supporting contractors and businesses, but it got the job done. Strong-man rule can be quite efficient. It can also grind you underfoot - there are any number of tales of people who opposed Daley who either wound up homeless, in jail, or were forced to leave the area because they could no longer secure either employment or housing.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Akhlut
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2660
Joined: 2005-09-06 02:23pm
Location: The Burger King Bathroom

Re: Blagojevich convicted

Post by Akhlut »

Not unsurprisingly, this system pisses off everyone in the rest of Illinois. While the rest of the state doesn't have the population of the Chicago metro area, there are still several million people in Illinois who don't operate as severely corrupt crooks and who see little benefit of being associated with Chicago. A lot of us are pissed that, in spite of the Governor's mansion being in Springfield, the governor is usually conducting business in Chicago. There is a real feeling of neglect in Illinois outside of Chicago and a desire to see state politics wrested from the hands of Chicago.
SDNet: Unbelievable levels of pedantry that you can't find anywhere else on the Internet!
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Re: Blagojevich convicted

Post by Sea Skimmer »

I do hope the court makes him go directly to jail upon sentencing. The appeals are going to take as long as his sentence, longer I bet if they only give him six years.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
Patrick Degan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14847
Joined: 2002-07-15 08:06am
Location: Orleanian in exile

Re: Blagojevich convicted

Post by Patrick Degan »

Broomstick wrote:There is bribery - at one point Chicago actually published a schedule of bribes in an official manner (back in the 1920's).
Jello Biafra, in his joke mayoral campaign in San Francisco back in 1979, actually had as one of his "platform points" the establishment of a legal board of bribery "to set fair and standard rates". I've long known of Chicago corruption but not that they would actually have done something like that for real. Only in Chicago...

As for Blago's reaction to his conviction, he reminds me a bit of the way the late and unlamented Romanian dictator, Nicolai Ceauceascu, didn't quite seem to understand just how much trouble he was in until he finally perceived a group of gentleman with rifles lining up in front of him and the bullet-pocked wall he was told to stand next to.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln

People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House

Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
Post Reply