Magneto Vs. the Emperor

[Norade]

Vent the air from the room and then point and laugh. You guys still haven't proved he can even control the metals used in Star Wars construction. I mean movie version, he never manipulates any non magnetic metals.

The fact that he can manipulate an exotic 'unobtainium' style metal material really does have to be assumed, or you end up with "palpatine vs a very angry polish jew, who momentarily will become a sad polish jew"(movie Magneto is polish, even though his name is German). There is kinda no point to the question if you do that and how exactly are we supposed to prove that he can deal with SW construction when in no circumstance ever, no matter how many alternative universes you put him in--he will never encounter it, unless there is an X-Men/Star Wars comic crossover.

Insisting that need be proven just makes you a tool.

That said, oh no, they vent the atmosphere! They will have to vent the entire station, because one of the first things I would do is open holes in the wall to other areas of the ship.

So we are back to durasteel tentacle porn.

He couldn't lift the helmet, thus you have to prove he can effect mystery metals. Burden of proof is on you.

[Ahriman238]

Since it does not exhibit the properties of a spherical mass of Palpatine being subjected to thermal and direct energy weapon damage, we must thus assume that the visual display we saw was caused by NDF chain reactions. Visual evidence trumps dialogue and novelizations. Or does that only apply to shitty 70s-era asteroid vaporization SFX?

If Magneto's helmet is as durable as a Federation packing crate, then I guess he'll be able to withstand that kind of trigger guard-less non-DEW weapon just fine.

If Magneto can't manipulate SW metals, then Palpatine can't manipulate Marvel Movie-verse humans by virtue of them being Forceless like Yuzhan Vong. If we're into that kind of semantic bullshit.

And I think that's a good sign that Shroomy has been debating for far too long, or is just really bad at sarcasm.

Snap out of it man! (slaps Shroomy) The war is over!

...

What? I always wanted to say that.

Seriously though, there's no need to drag this thing down to the lowest depths SW v. ST have gone to. Outside of their respective films both men have acheived godlike feats. Inside the films, not so much. Palpatine has demonstrated lightning, decent TK (just eyeballing I'd be suprised if those Senate platforms weighed less than a minivan,) swordsmanship sufficient to cross blades with some of the Jedi's finest (albeit twenty years prior to this confrontation,) and a vulnerability to great heights. Magneto has shown the ability to fly, stop a train and peel off the roof, bind people with innocuous structures, flip over a large truck, extract surplus iron from someone's blood, kill people with baseball sized lumps of metal, support his own weight on a metal disc, force down the Blackbird, shove cars aside, and oh yes, uproot one end of the Golden Gate Bridge and shift the whole thing to Alcatraz. He is brought down by a combination of hubris and screwing with things he didn't understand.

If we count the First Class movie, add remove fillings, retrieve thrown knife, aim and fire a pistol from halfway across the room and despite the gun's owner wrestling with it, deflecting bullets, killing a man with a coil of barbed wire, moving a massive satellite dish, lifting a submarine out of the ocean, and killing a man with a small coin. He was also very confidant in his ability to stop a bullet even when the gun was held right up against his forehead.

These should be able to provide at least a rough estimate. And if the OP will forgive a brief dip into the EU I will say that the room was most likely composed of durasteel with transparisteel windows.

[Norade]

Why would you assume durasteel and transparasteel have anything to do with real steel? They display properties nothing like steel commonly.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Vent the air from the room and then point and laugh. You guys still haven't proved he can even control the metals used in Star Wars construction. I mean movie version, he never manipulates any non magnetic metals.

The fact that he can manipulate an exotic 'unobtainium' style metal material really does have to be assumed, or you end up with "palpatine vs a very angry polish jew, who momentarily will become a sad polish jew"(movie Magneto is polish, even though his name is German). There is kinda no point to the question if you do that and how exactly are we supposed to prove that he can deal with SW construction when in no circumstance ever, no matter how many alternative universes you put him in--he will never encounter it, unless there is an X-Men/Star Wars comic crossover.

Insisting that need be proven just makes you a tool.

That said, oh no, they vent the atmosphere! They will have to vent the entire station, because one of the first things I would do is open holes in the wall to other areas of the ship.

So we are back to durasteel tentacle porn.

He couldn't lift the helmet, thus you have to prove he can effect mystery metals. Burden of proof is on you.

Ah, so you are a tool.

First, Durasteel is not a "mystery metal". It is a standard building material that has no mystical properties. It is not designed to be immune to the effects of magnetism, and in fact, it oxidizes (as mentioned or shown repeatedly in the EU, which if we are drawing from in order to determine the properties of things as you have thus far insisted, we shall admit). Guess what this means? Transition metal It means that it WILL respond to a magnetic field in some way. Which means, by definition, that magneto even under the most narrow interpretation of his powers, can manipulate it. It does not matter whether it is paramagnetic, or ferromagnetic.

That said, the assumption that magneto can affect the local metallic building materials is fundamental to even having a contest. If we want to split hairs like this, you must now prove that Magneto, coming from an entirely different Universe, can be affected by the force.

[Havok]

The Force probably is electro-magnetism. OOOOoooo think about that. Magneto is just a Jedi.

[Norade]

Ah, so you are a tool.

First, Durasteel is not a "mystery metal". It is a standard building material that has no mystical properties. It is not designed to be immune to the effects of magnetism, and in fact, it oxidizes (as mentioned or shown repeatedly in the EU, which if we are drawing from in order to determine the properties of things as you have thus far insisted, we shall admit). Guess what this means? It means that it WILL respond to a magnetic field in some way. Which means, by definition, that magneto even under the most narrow interpretation of his powers, can manipulate it. It does not matter whether it is paramagnetic, diamagnetic or ferromagnetic.

That said, the assumption that magneto can affect the local metallic building materials is fundamental to even having a contest. If we want to split hairs like this, you must now prove that Magneto, coming from an entirely different Universe, can be affected by the force.

Funny that there are metals in his own universe he can't effect then. Also, the most recent movie is out of continuity with the other moves due to a number of errors, so feats from First Class only now. Also, if Palpatine can't effect Magneto with the force he can chop him up, crush him with objects moved via TK, and electrocute him still.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Ah, so you are a tool.

First, Durasteel is not a "mystery metal". It is a standard building material that has no mystical properties. It is not designed to be immune to the effects of magnetism, and in fact, it oxidizes (as mentioned or shown repeatedly in the EU, which if we are drawing from in order to determine the properties of things as you have thus far insisted, we shall admit). Guess what this means? It means that it WILL respond to a magnetic field in some way. Which means, by definition, that magneto even under the most narrow interpretation of his powers, can manipulate it. It does not matter whether it is paramagnetic, diamagnetic or ferromagnetic.

That said, the assumption that magneto can affect the local metallic building materials is fundamental to even having a contest. If we want to split hairs like this, you must now prove that Magneto, coming from an entirely different Universe, can be affected by the force.

Funny that there are metals in his own universe he can't effect then. Also, the most recent movie is out of continuity with the other moves due to a number of errors, so feats from First Class only now. Also, if Palpatine can't effect Magneto with the force he can chop him up, crush him with objects moved via TK, and electrocute him still.

Yes. Metals. Not Transition Metals (The two are not the same), which are by definition ductile, and respond to magnetic fields--either condition alone is enough for Magneto. You are a fucking moron who needs to learn some basic chemistry. If a metal can rust, which durasteel can, it is a transition metal, or is comprised of a majority of transition metals. This means Magneto can affect it. Go back and read the OP. This is Last Stand Magneto, not first class Magneto.

The Emperor cannot chop him up because the lightsaber hilt is... made of metal, probably a transition metal, and it is powered by something either that conducts an electric current, or is contained in a magnetic field.

Oh, and here is the blueprint for a lightsaber:



Look at the components, and tell me what you see.

Yeah, fuck you.

Yeah, transition metal objects (most everything in SW is made of durasteel, they use it like we use steel and aluminum), yes, throw them at Magneto.

And... electrocution? Are you fucking kidding me? Is your IQ like, 5?

[Alyrium Denryle]

The Force probably is electro-magnetism. OOOOoooo think about that. Magneto is just a Jedi.

No. You cannot equivocate the metaphysics like that.

[Ahriman238]

Why would you assume durasteel and transparasteel have anything to do with real steel? They display properties nothing like steel commonly.

We don't really see them tested in any way onscreen, besides seeing that lightsabers cut through with ease, something I'm fairly sure would happen to regular steel. So what qualities are you referring to? Also, you know, they're portmanteaus containing the word 'steel' and another word that describes how they are different from regular steel.

You may, of course, argue that this is not proof positive. However it is more evidence then you have demonstrated thus far.

Also, if Palpatine can't effect Magneto with the force he can chop him up, crush him with objects moved via TK, and electrocute him still.

Truth, if we're talking movie still this Magneto has not had decades of experience in dealing with telekinetics, clawed berserkers, and lightning spamming African goddesses. Actually, the last has never been an issue for him in the comics, since electrocution just makes him stronger, so the good guys try not to use it.

All this means, though, is that Palapatine still has a shot. None of these skills or powers outright guarentee victory. In fact, jumping at the Master of Magnetism with a metal weapon in your hand (even if it's just the hilt that's metal) is going to end in a highly predictable manner.

[Norade]

Yes. Metals. Not Transition Metals (The two are not the same), which are by definition ductile, and respond to magnetic fields--either condition alone is enough for Magneto. You are a fucking moron who needs to learn some basic chemistry. If a metal can rust, which durasteel can, it is a transition metal, or is comprised of a majority of transition metals. This means Magneto can affect it. Go back and read the OP. This is Last Stand Magneto, not first class Magneto.

The Emperor cannot chop him up because the lightsaber hilt is... made of metal, probably a transition metal, and it is powered by something either that conducts an electric current, or is contained in a magnetic field.

Oh, and here is the blueprint for a lightsaber:



Look at the components, and tell me what you see.

Yeah, fuck you.

Yeah, transition metal objects (most everything in SW is made of durasteel, they use it like we use steel and aluminum), yes, throw them at Magneto.

And... electrocution? Are you fucking kidding me? Is your IQ like, 5?

You can't actually prove anything about durasteel being magnetic can you? The three elements with some basis in reality certainly aren't. The others would need to be far beyond what we have in the periodic table, given that there aren't any gaps for them to go into, meaning they would need to be highly unstable and radioactive. Given that they use real names for existing elements I'd say we can safely rule out them being something else renamed. You'd need to prove that they're an alloy of existing elements and frankly good luck with that.

Also, what's so retarded about force lightning working even on non force sensitives?

Why would you assume durasteel and transparasteel have anything to do with real steel? They display properties nothing like steel commonly.

We don't really see them tested in any way onscreen, besides seeing that lightsabers cut through with ease, something I'm fairly sure would happen to regular steel. So what qualities are you referring to? Also, you know, they're portmanteaus containing the word 'steel' and another word that describes how they are different from regular steel.

You may, of course, argue that this is not proof positive. However it is more evidence then you have demonstrated thus far.

Get back to me when normal steel can build a death star and not fall apart. Or when it can build mile high + sky scrappers and not buckle. Seriously, Mike has gone over this on his page.

Also, if Palpatine can't effect Magneto with the force he can chop him up, crush him with objects moved via TK, and electrocute him still.

Truth, if we're talking movie still this Magneto has not had decades of experience in dealing with telekinetics, clawed berserkers, and lightning spamming African goddesses. Actually, the last has never been an issue for him in the comics, since electrocution just makes him stronger, so the good guys try not to use it.

All this means, though, is that Palapatine still has a shot. None of these skills or powers outright guarentee victory. In fact, jumping at the Master of Magnetism with a metal weapon in your hand (even if it's just the hilt that's metal) is going to end in a highly predictable manner.

Was it magic Sith lightning that drains life force that powered him up?

Also, burden of proof is still on the magneto can effect the materials common use in Star Wars camp.

[Alyrium Denryle]

We don't really see them tested in any way onscreen, besides seeing that lightsabers cut through with ease, something I'm fairly sure would happen to regular steel. So what qualities are you referring to? Also, you know, they're portmanteaus containing the word 'steel' and another word that describes how they are different from regular steel.

You may, of course, argue that this is not proof positive. However it is more evidence then you have demonstrated thus far.

We dont even need to play with the english language. If we are permitting the EU in order to determine the properties of things or abilities, as Norade has insisted, and i have conceeded (unless he has shifted his goalposts, in which case my contempt for him will only grow), we know because we see it that durasteel will oxidize (ever see a rusted durasteel crate in a SW game? I know I have, and it is not contradicted by higher canon as far as I am aware). If it will oxidize, it is a transition metal, or comprised of them. It does not matter how much SW has expanded the periodic table. Unless we are claiming that the laws of chemistry dont apply, in which case, we cannot even have an argument. Transition metals are by definition ductile, and they respond to mag fields. Done. Case closed.

You can't actually prove anything about durasteel being magnetic can you? The three elements with some basis in reality certainly aren't.

You need to open up a general chemistry textbook. Durasteel has been demonstrated to oxidize via rust. What metals oxidize via rust? Transition metals oxidize via rust. So, unless you are going to reject chemistry in its entirety, some of the fictional components of durasteel have the properties of transition metals as near as we can infer. Therefore, given this, it is ductile, and it responds to magnetic fields. In fact, because it is the hull plating on starships, it HAS to respond to magnetic fields, or the magnetic grapple boots used in the Clone Wars animated series could not work.

What does magneto manipulate? Magnetic Fields and ductile metals.

Do you have any other questions, moron-child?

The others would need to be far beyond what we have in the periodic table, given that there aren't any gaps for them to go into, meaning they would need to be highly unstable and radioactive.

That does not follow at all. Go learn some basic chemistry and get back to me. Besides, we know from EU cannon that magnetic boots work on the stuff (Clone Wars cartoons). So regardless of any other property, we know magneto can play with it.

Also, what's so retarded about force lightning working even on non force sensitives?

The Yuuzhan Vong were not susceptible to the force because they completely lack midichlorians. Magneto, not being from this reality by definition does not have midichlorians. Therefore, the life-draining effects of force lightning will not work, leaving only the electrical effects, and we are now.... back to where we started, both of us knowing that Magneto is not going to be harmed by lightning.

So... Anything else?

Also, burden of proof is still on the magneto can effect the materials common use in Star Wars camp.

A burden of proof which--even though a sane person would simply assume it for the sake of having an argument that made sense,--I have shoved up your ass covered in spikes using both chemistry, AND canon evidence.

[Ahriman238]

Well, a quick glance at Wookiepedia shows that durasteel apparently contains no steel. Congrats, Norade on that minor point. Durasteel is an alloy of four fictitious metals with neutronium (which is pretty much a fictitious metal itself having exactly zero qualities in common with RL neutronium) and carbon. So what do you suppose happens when you alloy transition/ferreous metals with metals that are not? I'll give you a hint, the "other" metal does not transfer it's resistance to magnetic fields.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well, a quick glance at Wookiepedia shows that durasteel apparently contains no steel. Congrats, Norade on that minor point. Durasteel is an alloy of four fictitious metals with neutronium (which is pretty much a fictitious metal itself having exactly zero qualities in common with RL neutronium) and carbon. So what do you suppose happens when you alloy transition/ferreous metals with metals that are not? I'll give you a hint, the "other" metal does not transfer it's resistance to magnetic fields.

And if they are unstable/radioactive as he claims YOU CANT BUILD FUCKING SHIPS WITH THEM!!!!!

[Shroom Man 777]

At 00:26

EXTERIOR: DEATH STAR -- HUGE PORT DOORS.

The helpless Millennium Falcon is pulled past a docking port
control room and huge laser turret cannons.

VOICE OVER DEATH STAR INTERCOM: Clear Bay twenty-three-seven. We are
opening the magnetic field.

At 3:36

LUKE: Will you forget it? I already tried it. It's magnetically
sealed!



FUCKING TREKKIEMACROMINIMALITRAVISSTARDYITICABICYCLISTS!

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

I think Luke meant that it was sealed by sith life-draining force.

[Darth Hoth]

Why should "magnetic shielding" necessarily mean that the material is highly magnetic? The issue there was some kind of force-field, which can be basically anything. Ditto the Death Star "magnetic field." It tells us nothing about durasteel.

We dont even need to play with the english language. If we are permitting the EU in order to determine the properties of things or abilities, as Norade has insisted, and i have conceeded (unless he has shifted his goalposts, in which case my contempt for him will only grow), we know because we see it that durasteel will oxidize (ever see a rusted durasteel crate in a SW game? I know I have, and it is not contradicted by higher canon as far as I am aware). If it will oxidize, it is a transition metal, or comprised of them. It does not matter how much SW has expanded the periodic table. Unless we are claiming that the laws of chemistry dont apply, in which case, we cannot even have an argument. Transition metals are by definition ductile, and they respond to mag fields. Done. Case closed.

My own knowledge of chemistry does not extend far above the high-school level, so excuse me in advance if my contribution is horribly retarded or inane, but is there evidence that what we see is necessarily oxidation, as opposed to other forms of corrosion? Is it inconceivable that, depending on what other chemicals might be at play in a given local environment, the end product might look quite like ordinary rust while its cause is a quite different chemical reaction? Most areas where we see corroded durasteel in the EU (e.g., Nar Shaddaa, Bonadan) tend to be such as have been subject to quite heavy (and probably exotic) pollution over extended timespans.

The Yuuzhan Vong were not susceptible to the force because they completely lack midichlorians. Magneto, not being from this reality by definition does not have midichlorians. Therefore, the life-draining effects of force lightning will not work, leaving only the electrical effects, and we are now.... back to where we started, both of us knowing that Magneto is not going to be harmed by lightning.

The weird Yuuzhan Vong properties were not due to midichlorians from what I know; as far as I can remember, those were never mentioned in any of the NJO books. Yuuzhan Vong were also susceptible to the Force, including both lightning and telekinesis in various books (e.g., Star by Star and Edge of Victory). They could not be detected by Force means, but Jedi could still attack them if within visual range.

Logically, midichlorians are not required for the effective use of the Force on an object in any case, given that the Force can affect inert matter with impunity, while midichlorians are a symbiotic/parasitic life-form that requires the metabolism of a host creature to survive. Nevermind incorporeal Force ghosts, spirits and other such phenomena.

Well, a quick glance at Wookiepedia shows that durasteel apparently contains no steel. Congrats, Norade on that minor point. Durasteel is an alloy of four fictitious metals with neutronium (which is pretty much a fictitious metal itself having exactly zero qualities in common with RL neutronium) and carbon. So what do you suppose happens when you alloy transition/ferreous metals with metals that are not? I'll give you a hint, the "other" metal does not transfer it's resistance to magnetic fields.

Wookiee might be mixing it up; they often do, which is why I have little faith in them as a reference. At least in the early sources, the neutronium (&c) was part not of durasteel, but of starship-grade dura-armour (not the same thing; separate entries in the reference books).

Then again, the mix-up might be earlier, in some sourcebook or other, which would make it canon. But their page does not source its info from what I can see.

[Darth Hoth]

The plastic prison points to an ability to do so. Otherwise why spend all the cash and effort for a purely plastic prison, weapons, even a damn wheelchair, if non magnetic metal can do the same? Stainless Steel, for example.

Maybe they were just playing it safe? They might not have complete data on all his abilities and their precise limits. And once you manage to lock someone like that up, you would want to make sure he stays locked up, even if it costs a little extra effort. Scrimping on security when dealing with supervillains generally tends to backfire in the comics.

As for venting the atmosphere, all that does is kill Palpatine. Again, we're in the RotJ throneroom. Where's he going to go?

In the EU, Force-users can survive exposure to hard vacuum for limited intervals by going into Jedi trance. If we assume this scenario, Palpatine could presumably make it for long enough for space-equipped Imperials to rescue him. If we disallow the EU, though, as the OP posited, he can do little.

Then again, what about Magneto? He might be able to survive, as well, if he can pull up an airtight metal ball fast enough. (Even if we assume that he can manipulate durasteel as easily as iron, can he seal it quick enough to keep the air in with an explosive decompression in full progress?) But by doing so he renders himself blind, and he also has only what air he manages to trap to subsist on. Effectively, his chances for survival should become quite slim. So venting the air is probably a bad option for all parties concerned.

Not that doing something so drastic is very "in-character" for Palpatine, for those to whom that matters. It would be more Vader's style.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Then again, what about Magneto? He might be able to survive, as well, if he can pull up an airtight metal ball fast enough. (Even if we assume that he can manipulate durasteel as easily as iron, can he seal it quick enough to keep the air in with an explosive decompression in full progress?) But by doing so he renders himself blind, and he also has only what air he manages to trap to subsist on. Effectively, his chances for survival should become quite slim.

Not really, since he can pull that metal bubble back to the rest of the station and create an entry port to merge with the bubble. And he can sense things via his powers - like the iron in the blood of that guard - so he wouldn't actually be "blind".

[Shroom Man 777]

It tells us that those things/materials are affected by magnetic fields. Like, they use magnetic fields to lock their garbage chutes. Which means that those materials can, uh, be affected by magnetism in such a way as to seal the compactor so poop won't leak out.

Of course, those septic tank magnetic locks are powered by hypermatter reactors with ultradense exotic material energy sources and neutronium ingrained radiators that get rid of waste heat as tachyons. It might take immense amounts of magnetic field power to clench the garbage compactor's sphincters with magnetism, and the garbage compactor doors may have more power than Magneto himself can muster, requiring heavy amounts of fattowatts. Those tractor beams and magnetic fields are meant to interact with superheavy ships, which we assume to be larger spherical masses of iron than the Golden Gate Bridge.

[Darth Hoth]

Not really, since he can pull that metal bubble back to the rest of the station and create an entry port to merge with the bubble. And he can sense things via his powers - like the iron in the blood of that guard - so he wouldn't actually be "blind".

Can he do that level of precision work without sight? Especially considering that he will be dealing with quite heavy blast doors and walls made of (presumably) superior materials? And if the Imperials are dead set on venting him, they could just repeat the process and depressurise the whole 100-story tower. Presumably he would get tired, and/or run out of air while chewing his way down through the bulkheads.

Though of course, Palpatine is dead any which way.

As for the "iron" shot Mystique gave that guard - was it ever explained what that actually was? It was a greyish liquid at room temperature, the guard could apparently tolerate centilitres(?) of it in his bloodstream without ill effect for hours on end minimum, and if I recall correctly (always a big caveat, as I have already shown in this thread ) it also did not register on the prison metal detectors.

[Shroom Man 777]

Either way, Magneto didn't have outside contact with Mystique either, so he had to use his magnetospider senses to detect it.

It did not register on the prison metal detectors because it was highly disseminated and dispersed in the guard's bloodstream. A metal detector would easily detect a single spherical mass of concentrated iron, but if that mass was dissolved in XYZ-liters of human precious bodily fluids? Different thing entirely.

[Darth Hoth]

It tells us that those things/materials are affected by magnetic fields. Like, they use magnetic fields to lock their garbage chutes. Which means that those materials can, uh, be affected by magnetism in such a way as to seal the compactor so poop won't leak out.

Of course, those septic tank magnetic locks are powered by hypermatter reactors with ultradense exotic material energy sources and neutronium ingrained radiators that get rid of waste heat as tachyons. It might take immense amounts of magnetic field power to clench the garbage compactor's sphincters with magnetism, and the garbage compactor doors may have more power than Magneto himself can muster, requiring heavy amounts of fattowatts. Those tractor beams and magnetic fields are meant to interact with superheavy ships, which we assume to be larger spherical masses of iron than the Golden Gate Bridge.

"Magnetic fields" in SW also keep the air pressure in hangars exposed to hard vacuum. Does this mean that Magneto can also manipulate SW air? The term is merely another technobabble for "force field" and similar magitech.

And, Shroom, please: Remember, poor Hoth is not a native speaker. Could you just maybe try to write in intelligible English, at least when you address me directly? You make it quite hard for me to understand your points, if any.

[Shroom Man 777]

Uh, those other shields are not called magnetic fields, but there are specific ray shields and particle shields and so forth. So, the fact that it's specifically called magnetic fields - and magnetic seals, ala magnetic locks, which we do have today - means that magnetism does have an effect on SW materials. They use it to lock their doors!

[Darth Hoth]

The atmosphere containment fields are specifically called "magnetic fields" in several books, although there are a number of variant terminologies (we also have "magcon fields," "containment fields" and the like, though they all describe the exact same phenomenon). "Magnetic field" is an unspecified technobabble buzzword in SW, just as many/most of the various "laser" weapons do not really share the properties of real-life lasers. I can be back with quotes in a couple of days, if you insist.

[Shroom Man 777]

It's obvious though, that in the context of the garbage compactor scene, the metallic paleosteel Star Warsium alloys of the door was sealed by a magnetic lock.

Unless a more contrived strange and counter-intuitive explanation has to be made, so that Magneto can't manipulate SW metals, so that Palpatine will beat him, so Warsies will once again win a VS debate. We can't have a metal gap!

I mean, shit, the other side could easily say that since Magneto isn't from the SW universe, he would be immune to Force shit like a Yuzan Vong, and so all those powers won't work on him or whatever, and make for really shit debating reeking of contrived one-sided nonsense just to win.

In that case, why don't we change the battle scene? Instead of the Emperor's throne room, let's put it in Alcatraz Island in the X-Men movie universe. Hey, there are no midichlorians here and the Force doesn't exist in this universe, Palpatine's powers will be total shit since all the materials are non-Forcemagnetic! UH-OH! HAHAHA!

Oh wait, that would be total stupid uninteresting bullshit, as interesting as a couple of spherical masses of iron dangling from some fatty's scrotum, with a neutronium-lined jockstrap that radiates the waste heat through gonad-neutrinos so the temperature won't kill the spermidichlorians in said spherical masses of iron.