Uprising in Libya

[wautd]

Looks like Gaddafi is running out of men if he needs to resort to women

Gaddafi's grannies: Now dictator resorts to training elderly female soldiers as civil war takes its toll on his forces

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1QfstE7jE

The Libyan government has unveiled its latest weapon to defend Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's regime from rebel fighters - women.
As the NATO bombing campaign in the country entered its 100th day on Monday, loyalists to Gaddafi paraded their new female fighters in front of the world's media.

The 500 women loyal to the embattled leader had just completed a programme to teach them how to fire weapons, at a base near Tripoli, according to the Guardian.

The images show women getting to grips with a range of weapons as the government revealed it wanted women to become 'killing machines'.
Many of the women appeared to be elderly, whilst some were barely teenagers - but all were united in their love for the Libyan leader.
The waiting journalists watched as the women showed off their new skills, including target practice and loading their rifles with ammunition.

Some were pictured firing their guns defiantly into the air, showering the ground with dozens of bullets in celebration, watched closely by government minders.
Hundreds were photographed waving greening flags and photos of the Libyan leader. Others were chanting their loyalty and wearing jewellery decorated with Gaddafi's face.

It is not clear where the women will be deployed, if at all. Perhaps it is hoped the female contingent will help take down the regime's rebels who are not that much better prepared for combat either.

With a lack of heavy weapons, battlefield tactics and communications or even basic training, most rebel fighters don’t have functioning mobile phones, let alone radios.

The rag-tag rebels take their lead from what they see

Moussa Ibrahim, a government spokesman, told the Gaurdian: 'Libyan women are now joining the armed forces against NATO. We are training them. Their main role is defending homes. We have no plan to send them to the front line. They are not trained for that, and our army is very effective.'
He pledged to make every mother 'a bomb, a killing machine'.

He insisted the regime was strong and there was no possibility of surrender.
One graduate of the programme told the newspaper: 'We love Muammar Gaddafi and we want to save our country,
'He made us happy. He makes us eat and makes the country free to do what we want. Before, we weren't free.'
Meanwhile, yesterday the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court urged Gaddafi's own aides to arrest the Libyan leader and turn him over for trial on murder and persecution charges - or risk prosecution themselves.

Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo was optimistic that Gaddafi's regime would be over within two or three months.

On Monday, the court issued arrest warrants for the Libyan leader, his son Saif and intelligence chief Abdullah al-Sanoussi for crimes against humanity.

But the court has no police force, and relies on the law enforcement agencies of the 115 countries that ratified the court's founding statute.

They 'can be part of the problem and be prosecuted or they can be part of the solution - work together with other Libyans and stop the crimes', he told reporters at the court.
Mr Ocampo also said his office would continue investigating new crimes committed in Libya since the start of the uprising in February, in particular allegations of rape.
Thousands of Libyans poured into Liberty Square in the eastern rebel stronghold of Benghazi after the court's decision was announced, with women ululating and dancing and several men shooting celebratory gunfire in the air.

The square echoed with chants of: 'The blood of the martyrs will not be wasted' and 'Freedom is here. Today we win.'

[K. A. Pital]

At least in Gaddafi's land women can fight and not just as walking bags of flesh with bombs strapped on 'em. In some nations over there women can't even drive.

[Slacker]

Well, more than anything else the ammunition and supplies were what the Transitional Government forces were lacking at this point, and those seem to be rather solved issues for now, don't they? This dump is rather close to the more trained forces that broke out of Misrata, isn't it?

[Sea Skimmer]

Well, more than anything else the ammunition and supplies were what the Transitional Government forces were lacking at this point, and those seem to be rather solved issues for now, don't they? This dump is rather close to the more trained forces that broke out of Misrata, isn't it?

No the rebels in the western mountains are completely isolated from the pocket around Misrata and the rebels in eastern Libya. Misrata is supplied only very slowly by a few tugboats and fishing trawlers the rebels have sailing from Benghazi. This solves the ammunition problems for the rebels in the mountains, but they still have a great shortage of weapons to arm people with. It also remains to be seen if the rebels will be able to hold this ammunition depot. I think they will; but a whole string of pro Qaddafi held towns and cities are still within an arc 40-50 miles away.

Qaddafi has always had women in his security forces, but equality between men and women in Libya is still incredibly bad which is just kind of weird.

[Slacker]

Ah, okay, I completely missed where this depot was. This is over where that American ex-Marine was a month or so back that gave that interview that was posted in this thread, now that I think about it.

Any chance the rebels try to reinforce these guys now that they have more bullets than they know what to do with, or somehow try and get some of this ammunition over to either of the other two rebel strongholds? Does the rebel position in the western mountains even have a port, even a decent sized fishing village?

[Siege]

Apparently France is air-dropping weapons, including Milan rocket launchers, in rebel areas:

The head of the African Union has expressed concern over the flow of weapons into Libya after France revealed it had dropped arms into rebel-held areas of the conflict-stricken country earlier this month.

AU Commissioner Jean Ping, who chairs a meeting of African leaders in Malabo, Equatorial Guinea, on Thursday, said that weapons distributed in Libya would contribute to the "destabilisation" of African states.

"What worries us is not who is giving what, but simply that weapons are being distributed by all parties and to all parties. We already have proof that these weapons are in the hands of al-Qaeda, of traffickers," said Ping.

Colonel Thierry Burkhard, a spokesperson for the French general staff, told Al Jazeera on Wednesday that the military had dropped assault rifles, machine guns and rocket-propelled grenade launchers to groups of unarmed civilians in western Libya it deemed to be at risk.

Earlier in the day, the Le Figaro newspaper and the AFP news agency reported that France had dropped several tonnes of arms, including Milan anti-tank rockets and light armoured vehicles.

The airdrops arrived somewhere in rebel-held towns in the Nafusa mountains, which run east-west from the Tunisian border around 100km south of the capital Tripoli.

Rebels control most of the Nafusa, up to the town of Yafran, while regime forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi still hold Gharyan, a key town that lies astride the north-south road to the capital.

NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said on Thursday that the military alliance was not involved in the French airdrop operation.

Asked whether he knew of any other countries who were supplying weapons to rebel-held regions, Rasmussen said he had "no information".

UN resolution mandate

On March 19, a coalition of countries launched a military intervention in Libya under the mandate of a United Nations Security Council resolution aimed at protecting civilians from the onslaught launched by Gaddafi after mass protests broke out against his rule in mid-February.

The Security Council resolution established a no-fly zone, asset freeze and arms embargo on Libya and various regime entities.

The terms of the NATO-led mission in Libya have provoked controversy for months. The UN resolution 1973 authorising action says the NATO operation is to protect civilians, but France's admission raises major questions about how far that mandate goes.

Part of the UN resolution allows NATO the legal ability to provide weapons for protection or defence, but if those weapons are then used for attack, the rebels and those arming them could be criminally liable.

Donald Rothwell, a professor of international law at the Australian National University, told Al Jazeera that France's arms-supplying operations might arguably fall within the mandate.

"I think one of the key issues are whether the weapons supplied by the French are defensive weapons, or whether they're supplied with offensive use in mind," he said.

Rifles and ammunition

A French military spokesperson said France had become aware in early June that rebel-held villages had come under pressure from loyalist forces.

"We began by dropping humanitarian aid: food, water and medical supplies," he told the AFP news agency.


"During the operation, the situation for the civilians on the ground worsened. We dropped arms and means of self-defence, mainly ammunition."

Burkhard described the arms as "light infantry weapons of the rifle type" and said the drops were carried out over several days "so that civilians would not be massacred".

Though Burkhard framed the French weapons supplies as a method of protecting civilians in accordance with the UN mandate, it was still unclear whether such air drops violated the arms embargo.

NATO countries involved in the operations say their strikes on Gaddafi's armour, anti-aircraft emplacements and command bunkers are only meant to protect civilians.

They have denied trying to kill Gaddafi, though US Admiral Samuel Locklear, a NATO commander in Naples, Italy, reportedly told a visiting US congressman in May that they were actively targeting and trying to kill him.

'Light armoured cars'

According to Le Figaro, which said it had seen a secret intelligence memo and talked to well-placed officials, the drops were designed to help rebel fighters encircle Tripoli and encourage a popular revolt in the city itself.

"If the rebels can get to the outskirts of Tripoli, the capital will take the chance to rise against [Gaddafi]," said an official quoted in the report.

"The regime's mercenaries are no longer getting paid and are scarcely getting fed. There's a severe fuel shortage, the population has had enough."

France has taken a leading role in organising international support for the uprising against Gaddafi's four-decade-old rule, and French and British jets are spearheading a NATO-led air campaign targeting his forces.

Rebel forces are mainly based in Benghazi in the east of the country, and hold a besieged enclave supplied by sea in the western coastal town of Misurata, but have been unable to mount a convincing advance on the capital.

[Pelranius]

I wonder if the CIA's Special Activities Division is still on the ground in Libya? (Assuming that they haven't been pulled out to play firefighter in Yemen or elsewhere).

[Sea Skimmer]

Any chance the rebels try to reinforce these guys now that they have more bullets than they know what to do with, or somehow try and get some of this ammunition over to either of the other two rebel strongholds? Does the rebel position in the western mountains even have a port, even a decent sized fishing village?

Zero sea coast. If they reach the sea, which is a long push for them but one they are slowly gaining ground on, Qaddafi will be so fucked the other fronts wont really matter.

[Zac Naloen]

It's being reported in the News today that Gadaffi has threatened to bomb europe if the air strikes continue

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14001965

Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi should stop issuing threats against Europeans and resign instead, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says.

"Gaddafi should put the well-being and the interests of his own people first and he should step down from power," Mrs Clinton said in Spain.

Col Gaddafi threatened on Friday to attack European "homes, offices, families" unless Nato stopped bombing.

Nato is enforcing a UN resolution to protect civilians from Gaddafi forces.

"The Nato-led mission is on track. The pressure on Gaddafi is mounting and the rebels have been gaining strength and momentum. We need to see this through and we are in complete agreement that we will," Mrs Clinton said in Madrid.

'Retreat'
Speaking alongside Mrs Clinton, Spanish Foreign Minister Trinidad Jimenez said "Spain's and the international coalition's response is to maintain the unity and determination with which we have been working these past months".

Col Gaddafi made the threat in an audio message broadcast to tens of thousands of supporters gathered in a central Tripoli square on Friday.

His message comes after France confirmed it had supplied weapons to anti-government rebels, delivering arms to Berber tribal fighters near Tripoli.

In the broadcast, played via loudspeakers to gathered crowds in the capital's Green Square, he called on supporters to "march on the western mountains", the area where the weapons had been delivered.


Then he warned Europe that Libyans would seek revenge.

"These people [the Libyans] are able to one day take this battle [...] to Europe, to target your homes, offices, families, which would become legitimate military targets, like you have targeted our homes," he said.

"If we decide to, we are able to move to Europe like locusts, like bees. We advise you to retreat before you are dealt a disaster," he added.

His message come just days after the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for Col Gaddafi, his son Saif al-Islam and Libyan intelligence chief Abdullah al-Sanoussi for crimes against humanity.

International prosecutors allege government troops fired on civilian protesters during anti-Gaddafi street demonstrations earlier this year.

Friday's rally was one of the largest in recent times, says the BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes, in Tripoli, and the message was the first time that Col Gaddafi had been heard of in days.

[Thanas]

He wants to bomb Europe?

With what? The only thing he probably can do is order terror attacks by Libyan intelligence.

[Mr. Coffee]

He wants to bomb Europe?

With what? The only thing he probably can do is order terror attacks by Libyan intelligence.

Wait, the last time he did that and we caught him didn't we respond by killing on of his sons when bombing the shit out of a couple of his governmental buildings?

[Pelranius]

He wants to bomb Europe?

With what? The only thing he probably can do is order terror attacks by Libyan intelligence.

Wait, the last time he did that and we caught him didn't we respond by killing on of his sons when bombing the shit out of a couple of his governmental buildings?

Actually, an adopted daughter, and there's some controversy as to if he actually adopted said daughter post mortum.

[Simon_Jester]

He wants to bomb Europe?

With what? The only thing he probably can do is order terror attacks by Libyan intelligence.

Wait, the last time he did that and we caught him didn't we respond by killing on of his sons when bombing the shit out of a couple of his governmental buildings?

We're already bombing the shit out of his stuff, and I seem to remember us already bombing the shit out of his government buildings too. Plus there are fairly credible sources saying we're already trying to kill him in said shit-bombing.

We bomb the shit out of him, he wants to bomb the shit out of us. Seems fair to me. He may not be able to do it, but it's not unfair.

[Mr. Coffee]

Well, I suppose we could just send him a videotape of what happened to the last tinpot third world shithead that pissed us off. Seeing Saddam hanging from a stout rope ought to get the point across pretty damned fast.

[K. A. Pital]

Well, I suppose we could just send him a videotape of what happened to the last tinpot third world shithead that pissed us off. Seeing Saddam hanging from a stout rope ought to get the point across pretty damned fast.

You think Gaddafi can't read the fucking media? "Top U.S. admiral admits we are trying to kill Qaddafi"
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... ll_qaddafi

When you back someone into a corner and say you're going to kill him, there's nothing to lose and no picture of hanged Saddam are going to change that.

[Mr. Coffee]

It's more along the lines of offering the guy an out, Stas. Send him the message of "give up now and we'll allow you to quietly live your life in exile in the Caribbean island nation of your choice with whatever funds you've managed to squirrel away from your nations treasury or continue to fight and we'll let your countrymen hold a nice show trial before your execution". Qadaffi is borderline batshit, but he doesn't strike me as the suicidal type, so chances are he'd go for it and a lot of Libyans might not have to die in a prolonged civil war.

[K. A. Pital]

It's more along the lines of offering the guy an out, Stas.

I thought Obama was trying to play "we don't really want to kill you" line before, but then that admiral said up front NATO is there to kill MQ - the latter obviously wasn't happy. You were blowing his shit up for months, but he only said he'd start retaliating now. Why would he do that, if not for the fact he realized NATO doesn't want or need Libya - it just wants him dead?

Send him the message of "give up now and we'll allow you to quietly live your life in exile in the Caribbean island nation of your choice with whatever funds you've managed to squirrel away from your nations treasury or continue to fight and we'll let your countrymen hold a nice show trial before your execution". Qadaffi is borderline batshit, but he doesn't strike me as the suicidal type, so chances are he'd go for it and a lot of Libyans might not have to die in a prolonged civil war.

Why is remaining in your besieged capital "batshit"? It is suicidal, but sometimes life is worth less than other things. It remains to be seen if MQ really can walk the walk and "die in Libya" as he said in his speeches. Many government leaders died rather than face defeat, regardless of whether they were good or bad - Hitler and Allende immediately come to mind, although the former offed himself, not died defending his bunker, heh. Goebbels didn't just die, he and his wife also poisoned all six of their children in the process because "a future without national-socialism" was worse than death for the child, or so they reasoned. It is possible to strongly value something more than your own life, be it a good thing or a bad thing.

[Mr. Coffee]

Why is remaining in your besieged capital "batshit"?

Never said that was what made him batshit. Anyways, at least offer the guy an out, if he doesn't take it then that's his problem.

[K. A. Pital]

Why is remaining in your besieged capital "batshit"?

Never said that was what made him batshit. Anyways, at least offer the guy an out, if he doesn't take it then that's his problem

My opinion as well. He's simply an old dictator. No need to make him into an over-aged Arab martyr with a Che Guevara halo.

[Shroom Man 777]

Well, sending him pictures of hanging Saddam Hussein will achieve the exact opposite, meaning if he thinks the West wants to kill him whether or not he's in power or surrendering, then he'll screw it and just go down guns blazing.

[Simon_Jester]

Well, I suppose we could just send him a videotape of what happened to the last tinpot third world shithead that pissed us off. Seeing Saddam hanging from a stout rope ought to get the point across pretty damned fast.

You think Gaddafi can't read the fucking media? "Top U.S. admiral admits we are trying to kill Qaddafi"
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... ll_qaddafi

When you back someone into a corner and say you're going to kill him, there's nothing to lose and no picture of hanged Saddam are going to change that.

I've been reading a lot of Churchill lately, and there's a quote I feel is applicable:

"The moral principles of modern civilisation seem to prescribe that the leaders of a nation defeated in war shall be put to death by the victors. This will certainly stir them to fight to the bitter end in any future war, and no matter how many lives are needlessly sacrificed, it costs them no more. It is the masses of the people who have so little to say about the starting or ending of wars who pay the additional cost."

This on the subject of what they would have done with Hitler if he'd surrendered, said "do what you want with me, but spare my misguided people." Which would be out of character, but interesting as a counterfactual...

[Mr. Coffee]

Well, sending him pictures of hanging Saddam Hussein will achieve the exact opposite, meaning if he thinks the West wants to kill him whether or not he's in power or surrendering, then he'll screw it and just go down guns blazing.

Include a brochure for one of the nicer tropical resorts in the Caribbean (along with a note that we'll foot the bill if he'll just quietly step down) and he might put two and two together and get the hint. Honestly, as unjust as it might be given the shit the guy's pulled, I'd rather see Qaddafi spend his days playing golf and chasing skirt if it means ending a conflict that's costing a lot of lives and my tax dollars to prosecute.

[CaptainChewbacca]

You'd think that would be a more popular way to get rid of dictators;

Step down before we invade and you can have a compound in Aruba and a stipend of $20 mil a year until you die.

[Mr. Coffee]

Would probably cost less money then a couple months worth of airstrikes too.

[FaxModem1]

Isn't that what they did for Napoleon? Put him in exile?