World of Tanks

[Broken]

Still grinding away when I get the chance for the 10.5 for the Panther II. One thing I have discovered though is if you like non-arty heavy matches; don't get a tier 9 or 10 tank. Most matches have one or two arty at the very least. I have only had a handful with no arty at all. Most high tier battles have 3 or 4 arty per team; those artillery are also tier 6 or 7 on average. Tier 5's end up in those matches if they are platooned. And as people grind up the tier 8 arty; that will become more common as well.

High end arty is an entirely different beast then lower tiers. It is common on my Panther II to not be directly hit and still lose a quarter or third of my health just from splash damage. One game I just finished had an IS-4 one shot by a GTiger. Many matches end up with tanks hugging whatever mountain or building will block out the random hell of orbital death cannons. But with the near mortar-like trajectories of half the arty out there, such cover is rare. When tracers for undetected enemies were removed (cheaters were exploiting them to make them remain to point back to where they were shot from) it also removed counter-battery from the list of arty's worries, so now they don't even reposition between shots.

The only viable counter to arty in high end matches right now is a suicide rush by mediums in the hopes of getting close and detecting your enemies arty. Not that the mediums are expected to kill all those arty. They are merely spotting for their own team's artillery. This is because tier 6 and higher arty takes 2 or 3 shells from a medium to kill. Not easy to pull off when there are 3 or 4 arty on the field and they only have to land a shell within 15 meters of you to detrack you and leave you easy pickings. So the mediums kill 1 or 2 if they are lucky or good and your arty does the work on the rest. And many maps don't have a route to the enemy arty that can be rushed.

Now I know artillery has many defenders who say its fine and has been nerfed enough. That the guns are already incredibly random and expensive. I personally find the random artillery shell to be the most frustrating and annoying aspect of this game. It was bad enough at lower tiers but the high end is just out of control. I'm at the point that I would pay 4 or 5 bucks a month just to have a "no arty" battle option.

[Hawkwings]

Got my first Top Gun! Was in my T40, and I got the first 3 kills just hanging back behind out cap and waiting for the enemy to rush in. Had some help from a few others on my team of course, but I did the majority of the damage. After that, I followed a guy in a Ram-II to their side of the map, letting him make contact. Took out a few tanks and their arty. Ended up with 6 kills (including the last one) and a pretty easy 15-9 victory.

[atg]

AHAHAHA. Just had a hilarious battle against a KV in Lakeville. I was in a little T-46 circling him and firing the occasional HE shell while his turret kept turning around and around trying to geat a bead on me. All the while one of our Shermans was in some scrub was plinking away at his HP.

I think he was a bit pissed off

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

Got my AT-1 upgraded, and damn, that long 57 is downright rude when I can put it to use, but the game runs so choppy on my computer that aiming with anything other than the top-down view with arty is an exercise in frustration. I think I need a better video card.

[Zinegata]

Any KV driver worth his salt knows to turn the whole tank along with the turret .

[atg]

IIRC he did at first but stopped doing it after I tracked him.... he must have missed it when his tracks were repaired.

[xthetenth]

Any KV driver worth his salt knows to turn the whole tank along with the turret .

I don't think it's fast enough even then. For reference, I've circle strafed a well driven KV (IE moving back and forth to try and block me and make me have to drive farther to get around him like a pro) in a tank destroyer. It's just that sluggish.

I think I have a new mission too. I have, no joke, a sharpshooter streak of 139 in my T34. I want to make it to 200 at least, and then see where I go from there. Wonder if I can make it to 1000...

The best thing? I've been more accurate in my IS-3 (88%) than my T34 (87%).

[Agent Sorchus]

You guys are talking about the KV-2 turret right? Yeah, that's the number one reason I don't use the massive turret and instead use the short 122.

[xthetenth]

You guys are talking about the KV-2 turret right? Yeah, that's the number one reason I don't use the massive turret and instead use the short 122.

The 122 is dirty and the only reason the KV-1 is at all comparable to the T1 Heavy. If it doesn't penetrate it has similar dps to the long 76, and I don't think we need to get into what happens if it penetrates. HE crits are always funny too. I generally think the 107 is worth it though, since I very rarely let anyone survive to circlestrafe me with that gun and I can hurt big things hard.

[Highlord Laan]

World of Warplanes was recently announced. I expect to see YAK-1's out performing P-38's, the P-51 relegated to gold-only premium status, the Spitfire to be a piece of shit, and the FW-190 to wail on the P-47 with near impunity.

I also expect enemies to be invisible until they're directly in front of the player, hackneyed tech trees putting 30mm autocannons on [Russian/German] aircraft because some moron doodled it on the back of a bar napkin back in the day, and for any advanced US designs to be either ignored or implemented only as cash-bought premium fighters.

[xthetenth]

Man oh man laan, have you even driven Russian tanks? Fun fact, the American tanks are generally superior. The T1 is a far better tank than the KV, and the gun on the KV is really only needed on much larger tanks, you know, the sort that'll punch that bobblehead in like the overgrown tin can it is. Yay, you can hurt that T29. Oh, what's that, he can just about two shot you and got the first shot off because his tank's more agile than your KV? Ouch. The T1 is far more survivable against big things because it can get out of dodge and murder mediums. The KV-1S isn't worth discussing in the same sentence as the M6, and the KV-3's armor is great, but it suffers hard from its sluggishness, which means it has to grin and bear a lot of hits and isn't likely to be able to help optimally. The IS isn't worth discussing in the same sentence as the T29, with its weaker hull armor (yes, I said hull armor) and gun that'd be great if its reloads weren't by mail order and the aiming done on a timeframe usually reserved for continental drift. The IS-3 has its advantages over the T32, although with good angling the T32 is able to poke its nose out of cover with less risk than an IS-3, and only really has problems penning the IS-3 frontally of all the tanks the IS-3 doesn't, and the IS-3 needs to point its nose right at the enemy to get the benefit of its armor, making popping out far more risky. Then there's the gun, which this time at least has the advantage of penetration, making it somewhat fair this time around. It's just that the IS-3 doesn't bounce anything that matters, isn't much more maneuverable, and takes more heavy hits in my experience (let's hear it for armor that'll bounce some of the most damaging shots rather than none of them). The IS-4 is getting moved up a tier for a reason, and I don't have it yet so I can't compare, although the T34 is dead nasty in my experience. Unfortunately I haven't driven a King Tiger more than once or twice, but it's almost certainly the best in its tier. Its front armor is actually hard to penetrate, and its gun is real nice. The VK 4502 is situational considering what I've seen from it, but it can eat faces in a ranged fight. I'm not as qualified to talk about mediums, since I don't have the T-43 yet, but that 100mm just isn't something I want to stick with into tier VIII. It's passable at tier VI, but a gun like that makes you stop maneuvering for long enough it really ought to hit harder than that. I'll cheerfully take US mediums just because of their moving accuracy. The T-44 may drive as well as the Pershing, but that'd be the first since tier V. Finally there's little that'll take chunks out of me like a Patton, and it's not like the T-54 is proof to tier VII heavies frontally (penned them with my T29, so the Tiger can do it too).

tl;dr: russian tanks aren't nearly as good if you don't play to their strengths or if you actually have to drive the things.

[Zinegata]

It's funny when players rage about things they don't understand.

[Slacker]

Well to be fair, in closed beta the Russian equipment WAS the best, I'd say 7 times out of 10. The flipside to that is that the American stuff is generally better than a lot of the Russian stuff and they've actually worked to make most of the German equipment comparable. Our Tier 10 of choice in Clan Wars is the Maus, supported by the T30s and IS-7s, for example.

[xthetenth]

Well to be fair, in closed beta the Russian equipment WAS the best, I'd say 7 times out of 10. The flipside to that is that the American stuff is generally better than a lot of the Russian stuff and they've actually worked to make most of the German equipment comparable. Our Tier 10 of choice in Clan Wars is the Maus, supported by the T30s and IS-7s, for example.

Okay, what Russian kit was that superior? I'm thinking the IS-7, IS-4, T-44 before the microwarp fix, and little else. The short 88 for the Germans was better, and they've castrated the American 105 among other things too. It's just heightened because of the halo effect from the high tier stuff. Seriously though, the most broken tank in the beta was definitely the T29 on release, back when the 105 was actually a tier 9 gun and it had about 30% more armor than it should. God, I miss that gun. Hit like a Russian gun and was accurate like a German one.

Maybe the ISU-152 compared to the Ferdinand? Then again the Ferdinand sucked to pen frontally and throws down some nasty damage too.

[Zinegata]

He may be referring to the pre-America days of beta, where IS-2s were fighting Tiger Is.

[Slacker]

I'm referring to the early days of closed beta, before the soft wipe primarily. I think the T-34 at that point was better than the Panzer IV, and the A-20 was hands down the better Tier 4, and of course the high tier stuff all favored the Soviets. I'll grant you the only Soviet arty worth anything was the '26 and '51, for the most part the German kit was always superior in that field. Early tree TDs always favored the Germans, but from mid-tier on up the Russian kit was better. Of course, now from Tier 8 on up the American stuff is terrifying, but that's not really relevant to the argument.

I also miss the old 105. My T29 was murderous in beta. *sniffs*

[xthetenth]

I'm referring to the early days of closed beta, before the soft wipe primarily. I think the T-34 at that point was better than the Panzer IV, and the A-20 was hands down the better Tier 4, and of course the high tier stuff all favored the Soviets. I'll grant you the only Soviet arty worth anything was the '26 and '51, for the most part the German kit was always superior in that field. Early tree TDs always favored the Germans, but from mid-tier on up the Russian kit was better. Of course, now from Tier 8 on up the American stuff is terrifying, but that's not really relevant to the argument.

I also miss the old 105. My T29 was murderous in beta. *sniffs*

Oh, before the softwipe. Fair enough. I wasn't quite around back then. I only got in a month or so before the warp fix (zinegata, that was well before the american tanks by the way). After the softwipe, it really wasn't that badly in favor of the soviets from what I could tell. I'd contend the T-34 is still a better tank than the pz4 but that's taste.

[Slacker]

Yeah, I've been playing the game since pretty much the very beginning, so I remember when the Russian bias was very very real and not just the result of a handful of amazing tanks outshining the workmanlike superiority of three dozen others that just require a bit of intelligence to use correctly.

I think the T-34 is generally better than the PIV, but better PIV drivers are better than better T-34 drivers, if that makes sense. And I'd take the Sherman over both.

[xthetenth]

I think the T-34 is generally better than the PIV, but better PIV drivers are better than better T-34 drivers, if that makes sense.

Oh yeah, I understand that. I think part of the reason people claim russian bias is because they play well for newbie play. Quick enough to get in a good fight with a punchy gun to get the initial advantage and maneuverability to react to the unexpected quickly. The German ones require good management of the situation to not get outmaneuvered and put in a brawl where their advantages are minimized, and American ones need it too to quickly identify the enemy's weakness and take advantage of it while minimizing yours (terrain screening is important here). However, really good Russian play is very tricky because they can't snipe that well, so they kind of have to close, and it's really tricky to avoid taking damage on your way in. Minimizing damage while you get to a good place is hard and most vital for Russian tanks. I'd say that driving Russian tanks decently is the easiest and really well may well be the hardest.

I hope that confused mess made sense.

[Slacker]

It's easy to be good in a Russian tank. It's hard to be great.

Don't get me wrong, I was fucking amazing in the T-44. I had something like 750 games in the damn thing. But when the game went live, I decided to go all-American all the way, it really seems like the most balanced of all the trees in terms of meshing with my play style.

[Thunderfire]

Man oh man laan, have you even driven Russian tanks? Fun fact, the American tanks are generally superior. The T1 is a far better tank than the KV, and the gun on the KV is really only needed on much larger tanks, you know, the sort that'll punch that bobblehead in like the overgrown tin can it is. Yay, you can hurt that T29. Oh, what's that, he can just about two shot you and got the first shot off because his tank's more agile than your KV? Ouch. The T1 is far more survivable against big things because it can get out of dodge and murder mediums

The 152 and the 107 mm are able to kill pretty much any tier 3-6 tank in a few shots. The T1 is able to murder mediums - when it is top tier. Tier 7-8 matches will be more common and the M1A1 gun has a hard time penetrating higher tier targets. My best match in a T1 was a tier 5 match and my best match in the KV was a tier 7 match. The KV-1s and the M6 are both bad tanks until they get their last gun. The soviet player is able to drive the KV-3 instead which gets the nice 107mm. The american player has to suffer though the M6 until he gets the 90mm. The T-29 and the T-30 are the best tanks of their tier.

[xthetenth]

It's easy to be good in a Russian tank. It's hard to be great.

Don't get me wrong, I was fucking amazing in the T-44. I had something like 750 games in the damn thing. But when the game went live, I decided to go all-American all the way, it really seems like the most balanced of all the trees in terms of meshing with my play style.

Yeah, I've found that driving a Russian tank, I'm really pretty good at it, but I have great difficulty doing much more than I do in an American tank with it, and when it gets into sniping, have a much harder time. The main advantage I see with them for me is that I can get into a fight more easily. I just greatly prefer how well rounded the American tanks are because it lets me drive to the situation or my enemy's weaknesses without much chance of screwing myself.

Man oh man laan, have you even driven Russian tanks? Fun fact, the American tanks are generally superior. The T1 is a far better tank than the KV, and the gun on the KV is really only needed on much larger tanks, you know, the sort that'll punch that bobblehead in like the overgrown tin can it is. Yay, you can hurt that T29. Oh, what's that, he can just about two shot you and got the first shot off because his tank's more agile than your KV? Ouch. The T1 is far more survivable against big things because it can get out of dodge and murder mediums

The 152 and the 107 mm are able to kill pretty much any tier 3-6 tank in a few shots. The T1 is able to murder mediums - when it is top tier. Tier 7-8 matches will be more common and the M1A1 gun has a hard time penetrating higher tier targets. My best match in a T1 was a tier 5 match and my best match in the KV was a tier 7 match. The KV-1s and the M6 are both bad tanks until they get their last gun. The soviet player is able to drive the KV-3 instead which gets the nice 107mm. The american player has to suffer though the M6 until he gets the 90mm. The T-29 and the T-30 are the best tanks of their tier.

Yeah the KV gets the 107, it's a real nice gun. The problem with it is that while you have it your whole tank is basically a giant target. You can barely move, anything small enough can circle strafe you and anything big enough that it can't can punch your turret in like it's plinking a tin can. I averaged a full hundred more xp per game in the T1, and 626 damage per game compared to doing 527 damage per game in the KV. My stats are just plain out demonstrably worse. In the T1, sure you can't contribute as much to the main battle force in a high tier match, but you can scout a lot better and you aren't as liable to get punched in by kill hungry people who know what a weak target you are. Flanking shots and HE are your friends. For that matter so is good terrain use for scouting. Yes, when the enemy comes to the KV right it can be more devastating (see my 3 top guns in it) but in general I've got more kills per game, more damage per game and more xp per game because the T1 is a very good tank. The 152 deserves only contempt, it is a mediocre gun at best. Sure you can really screw things up, but only at kissing distance, and then you have to wait a minute to reload during which you likely die. It isn't even accurate enough to guarantee a hit at point blank.

On the subject of the KV-3, I'll give you that. I just hated driving the immobile brick so damn much that it colored my perception of it. It gives the 107 just enough extra turning speed to make it a really good gun. However it's getting moved up to tier VII anyway. In the meantime, though, it is a really tough fighter, but it's limited because the enemies need to come to it and it's a bit painful to play. I still earned more xp per game in the M6 than the KV-3 and did 777 damage per game in it compared to 745 in the KV-3, but strangely fewer kills per game and the initial grind was worse. A lot of the T1 and M6 is knowing how to drive them and how to use that speed and maneuverability to get in more advantageous fights and use your more limited armor to your advantage. I also hated the KV series because of its lack of speed, the only reason I didn't go the KV-1S is its terrible gun unlock setup, since the IS NEEDS the 100mm and the 107 is such a great earning gun.

[Slacker]

We used a platoon of KV-3s with the 107mm in the Ural Steel tournament back in the day, for the tier limitations probably the best tank you can get in that tourney.

[Thunderfire]

Yeah the KV gets the 107, it's a real nice gun. The problem with it is that while you have it your whole tank is basically a giant target. You can barely move, anything small enough can circle strafe you and anything big enough that it can't can punch your turret in like it's plinking a tin can. I averaged a full hundred more xp per game in the T1, and 626 damage per game compared to doing 527 damage per game in the KV. My stats are just plain out demonstrably worse. In the T1, sure you can't contribute as much to the main battle force in a high tier match, but you can scout a lot better and you aren't as liable to get punched in by kill hungry people who know what a weak target you are. Flanking shots and HE are your friends.

My stat are the opposite of yours - I am better in the KV. I try to play the T1 like a medium tank. But I had more success in a real medium like the easy 8 which has a similar gun selection. The T1 is a better target for a kill hungry player because the T1 lacks the big alpha damage of the KV. My performance in the T1 is very map dependent. I get best results on maps with usefull high ground e.g. Mines & Cliff.

[xthetenth]

Yeah the KV gets the 107, it's a real nice gun. The problem with it is that while you have it your whole tank is basically a giant target. You can barely move, anything small enough can circle strafe you and anything big enough that it can't can punch your turret in like it's plinking a tin can. I averaged a full hundred more xp per game in the T1, and 626 damage per game compared to doing 527 damage per game in the KV. My stats are just plain out demonstrably worse. In the T1, sure you can't contribute as much to the main battle force in a high tier match, but you can scout a lot better and you aren't as liable to get punched in by kill hungry people who know what a weak target you are. Flanking shots and HE are your friends.

My stat are the opposite of yours - I am better in the KV. I try to play the T1 like a medium tank. But I had more success in a real medium like the easy 8 which has a similar gun selection. The T1 is a better target for a kill hungry player because the T1 lacks the big alpha damage of the KV. My performance in the T1 is very map dependent. I get best results on maps with usefull high ground e.g. Mines & Cliff.

I always shoot the KV because it's a borderline threat and it's a much easier target because it's so slow. Yeah, the T1 can't defend itself as well but it actually requires more than a second of concentration to shoot and is less likely to draw fire. It also isn't the easiest threat to kill which is always bad. Fair enough though, I'll call the KV equal. Driving styles set them apart more than differences between the tanks. Sure, the KV-3 might be better, but it's also one of the tanks getting bumped up a tier. Then the T29 just rocks faces without mercy, the T32 rocks hard, at least even with the IS-3 and that's just because of its penetration occasionally being troublesome, then the IS-4 is probably out of line and getting bumped a tier although the T34 and VK 4502 Ausf B are both very solid tanks, and the tier tens are well balanced.

I'd say the medium tree is also well balanced, though I haven't played as high as the heavies. All the tier Vs rock, the tier VIs all have some quirks but seem good in their own way (The E8 and the VK 36 need pen, the T-35-85 needs faster aim and to be on a good chassis, the VK 3001 H needs armor and I hear the KV 3001 P just needs help). The Tier VIIs look like the DB and the T20 are the best, because the T-43 also has a crap gun without the armor of the DB, while the T20 has a good gun and moves like lightning while being tiny and really hard to hit (this is my favorite although so few people drive to take advantage of that silhouette so I won't say it's the best). The tier VIIIs, I'm not really qualified to judge the panther, but the pershing is a great tank and I'm having trouble seeing how the T-44 is better than it with a gun that's worse in every single way, what seems to be similar armor, and it just can't turn better than the pershing. That pretty much leaves acceleration and speed. Is it that much better? The tier IX mediums seem to me to be even. The panther II gets a stupidly nice gun (1.8 aiming time, really?), the patton gets a damage blaster extraordinaire and a nice turret, and the T-54 gets a great turret, nice performance driving and better frontal hull armor (although I've penned it with an American 105 so it's not overly armored). I think the trees should be about even once the German changes get made.