DADT halted in military.

[Lonestar]

If it really is only because of a matter of procedure....

I don't think you understand how the military works

[Keevan_Colton]

How complicated can it really be to stop enforcing a rule? It doesn't matter if you're the military or not, NOT doing something is in fact incredibly simple even in a world of bureaucratic lunacy. Six plus months indicates complete incompetence at an institutional level...not to mention a level of stupidity that boggles the mind.

[Dalton]

If it really is only because of a matter of procedure....

I don't think you understand how the military works

I don't. How about you enlighten me.

[White Haven]

Given the rather amazing 'difficulty' that seems to be getting in the way, I'd say it's more 'if' than 'how' in this particular case.

[Lonestar]

I don't. How about you enlighten me.

We live and die by procedure.

[Mr. Coffee]

Everything in the US Military operates by proceadure, a set of hard written rules that MUST BE OBEYED. Changing those rules isn't just a matter of saying :"Hey, rule #37 is dumb, stop enforcing it". For starters it means changing half a dozen TRADOC curriculum, as well as all the assorted classes about the changing of the TRADOC, and then you've got to recall and rewrite half a dozen FMs,retrain your entire NCO and Officer corps on how to deal with things, and then rewrite all of your recruiting manuals and retain your entire goddamn recruiter corps.

So no, it's not as simple as "stop enforcing it" and anyone that doesn't get that has never dealt with a large scale organization and is possibly drunker than I am. That cover it ok, Lonestar?

[Mr. Coffee]

Oh, I also forgot all about changing the policies on housing, benefits for SOs (never mind the implications of gay marriage on how dependents benefits and regulation thereof), and at least a decade or weeding out all the hardliners that resist the changes.

But yeah, totally just a matter of saying "Oh, yeah, stop enforcing DADT".

[Serafina]

Wouldn't housing privileges depend on a repeal of DOMA, rather than the status of DADT?

[White Haven]

I believe the key point is that if you don't start, you don't finish, and saying 'nope, stop starting' is a good way to never finish.

[Mr. Coffee]

No, the key point is that in institutions like the military, massive institution-wide policy changes don't happen overnight (or even over the course of a few months , for that matter). The courts can order and unorder all the way, but shit doesn't instantly happen because some glorified lawyer in a silk bathrobe decrees it. This is every bit as large scale a change as the desegregation of the military was, and that took a long goddamn time to happen, so expecting DADT to be repealed overnight isn't simply unrealistic, it's regoddamnedtard. It'll happen, for certain, but it will take time just to change all the goddamn regulations and train everyone on the new regulations, never mind getting all the personnel to get on board with it as well.

[Mr. Coffee]

Wouldn't housing privileges depend on a repeal of DOMA, rather than the status of DADT?

Probably, but neither will happen if peoplekeep insisting it just be done instead of insisting it be done right.

[Keevan_Colton]

Ceasing actively enforcing it is different from completely abolishing it and the fact that you're mixing the two up is laughable. Sorting out how gay marriage interacts with housing on base etc has nothing to do with stopping actively pursuing the DADT shit in the meantime while that shit is sorted out. The inability to do so speaks volumes about the level of retardation needed to be a military paper pusher more than anything else.

[Mr. Coffee]

Yes, because everyone will cease to actively enforce to the same standard... I mean, it's almost like you expect regulations and standards of conduct across four organization totally several million uniformed and civilian personnel to just change as one at the drop of hat. The fact that you think it's really that simple isn't just laughable, it shows you have no goddamned clue what you're talking about. For fuck's sake, take a look at how long it took the Army to just "stop enforcing" segregation (save ya the trouble of googling it, the answer is three years), and that was with President Truman issuing a fucking executive order telling them in no uncertain terms to desegregate.

But hey, let's just do things halfass and leave wiggle room for bigots and asshole to exploit instead of doing it the right way the firs time around and hopefully avoid a many problems as possible when implementing new policy. Christ on a biscuit, kev... Really?

[ComradeClaus]

Just for the record, what exactly are these rights and privileges? I am asking since I really have no idea where even to look for the data and have only a

The main benefit you get for being married in the military is that you get a housing allowance(BAH). For everyone but the Air Force the very low ranking enlisted do not get BAH for awhile, so there is a prevalence of scam marriages in order to get out of the barracks/ship. So if someone gets married in, say, New York(say he or she is a soldier assigned to Fort Drum) the soldier in question will try to get BAH for living out in town.

Hmm...actually it's a stretch to call off base in Fort Drum "out in town", but you get my drift.

The pennypinchers in the DoD(and I'll be honest, I'm one of them) are hesitant to extend same sex benefits because as bad as the gaming of the system is with straight folks getting scam marriages, it'll get worse. There'll be junior enlisted servicemen who will buddy up and get married in order to get out of the barracks at while E-nothings. But like Nitram said, I suspect that this'll come to a head within a year in places like NY and DOMA will crash and burn because of it, which will ultimately be a good thing(and then there won't be any wiggle room on the part of the DoD to not grant BAH to same sex couples).

I'm surprised you mentioned Fort Drum, I do maintenance for a lot of housing for the families of soldiers stationed there. the Base supports the economies of several adjacent counties. It's very important.

the thing i'm most happy for regarding gays now being able to serve openly is it gives gays in America a huge amount of leveage for rights they didn't have before.
just imagine a bunch of right-wing protestors trying to hassle a gay person who happens to be a Marine... you mess w/ one, you mess with ALL of the Devil dogs.

So, a truly great victory they've won. Sometimes, I think it'd be kinda neat if we had like an Elite all-gay unit. Like Spartans. W/ the Rainbow as their regimental Flag. Then they'd really get a chance to show the naysayers how badass they are.

[White Haven]

The 142nd Fighting Sodomites?

[Omega18]

Top Pentagon leaders will say Friday that the military is ready to permit gay men and lesbians to serve openly in the military, allowing President Obama to formally end the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, according to a U.S. official and others familiar with the plans.

In accordance with a law passed in December that set in motion the process of ending the ban, Obama first must receive notice from Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta and top uniformed brass that the military is prepared to end the policy before the government stops enforcing it. The policy will end 60 days after Obama formally certifies the repeal in writing to Congress.

If Obama signs the certification in the coming days, the ban would end in late September.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fed ... ml?hpid=z3

It looks like there will only be a limited additional delay until the repeal of DADT in September. I think its pretty clear the Obama administration was specifically worried about the political implications of letting a court ruling force the change. Appearing to rush the army procedures may have also been its own political concern. There also may be actual administrative issues which can be resolved by giving 60 days of advance notice.

(I would assume that as soon as the certification is signed recruiters will end up allowing openly gay individuals, who say so to them, to sign up based on the assumption that the new policy will be fully in effect by the time they would actually report.)