Discrimination by Religious Views

[Exonerate]

I can't believe this actually happened to me.

A girl refused to actually go out with me because I'm an atheist. Unfucking believeable.

I'm actually more shocked/amused than pissed/sad.

Is it this ignorant and bigoted in America, truly?

If it's any comfort, some Christians refuse to go out with people who just aren't Christians; doesn't matter if they're Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or whatever. You should see the GP4Ts forum... There's a bunch of BS about how they have to marry inside their own religion.

[neoolong]

I can't believe this actually happened to me.

A girl refused to actually go out with me because I'm an atheist. Unfucking believeable.

I'm actually more shocked/amused than pissed/sad.

Is it this ignorant and bigoted in America, truly?

If it's any comfort, some Christians refuse to go out with people who just aren't Christians; doesn't matter if they're Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or whatever. You should see the GP4Ts forum... There's a bunch of BS about how they have to marry inside their own religion.

Yeah.

Actually, a family friend's daughter recently converted to Mormonism and married this Mormon guy. I would have liked to have gone to the wedding. But I wasn't invited.

[Darth Wong]

In all fairness, Paul many times spoke only for himself, sometimes identifying such cases. However, in practice I've seen that relationships between believers and non-believers are often rocky (some of you have seen this first-hand), since the believer is constantly attempting to draw the non-believer into his or her relationship with Christ, while the non-believer rightly feels he or she is being unfairly badgered. Perhaps that is one of the reasons Paul said what he did.

Or perhaps he was just a prick. There's no reason to make excuses for someone who gave clearly stated reasons based on obvious bigotry rather than any of these whitewashed reasons that apologists make up for him after the fact. I have never seen any data on the success rate of so-called "interfaith" marriages, but I doubt you've done a study on this. Moreover, the "you'll have problems down the road" argument is the EXACT argument used by racists to attack interracial dating; it is usually made without evidence beyond anecdotes.

[jegs2]

Or perhaps he was just a prick. There's no reason to make excuses for someone who gave clearly stated reasons based on obvious bigotry rather than any of these whitewashed reasons that apologists make up for him after the fact. I have never seen any data on the success rate of so-called "interfaith" marriages, but I doubt you've done a study on this. Moreover, the "you'll have problems down the road" argument is the EXACT argument used by racists to attack interracial dating; it is usually made without evidence beyond anecdotes.

As to your description of Paul, others both in his time and certainly now wouldn't offer you much in the way of argument -- he was never very popular, and there was some angst between he and the other apostles. As to the study, no, I've not conducted one, but have noted troubles from personal observations with various Christians I've known who married non-Christians. Speaking from that observation, I've yet to see Christian/non-Christian marriages last long despite the best of intentions (for the reasons I noted before). Have others lasted? Likely, but none that I've seen. Keep in mind that the Christian of which I speak is one who lives in accordance with the Scriptures (i.e. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey my commands"), not the person who pays lip-service to some of the ideals of Christianity, while not surrendering their lives to Christ (which seems to be the majority of those labeling themselves as "Christians").

[Illuminatus Primus]

[As to your description of Paul, others both in his time and certainly now wouldn't offer you much in the way of argument -- he was never very popular, and there was some angst between he and the other apostles. As to the study, no, I've not conducted one, but have noted troubles from personal observations with various Christians I've known who married non-Christians. Speaking from that observation, I've yet to see Christian/non-Christian marriages last long despite the best of intentions (for the reasons I noted before). Have others lasted? Likely, but none that I've seen. Keep in mind that the Christian of which I speak is one who lives in accordance with the Scriptures (i.e. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey my commands"), not the person who pays lip-service to some of the ideals of Christianity, while not surrendering their lives to Christ (which seems to be the majority of those labeling themselves as "Christians").

Yeah "interfaith" marriages between true Christians and non-Christians doesn't work because the Christians sees their spouse as unenlightened hellbound heathen scum.

[Darth Wong]

As to your description of Paul, others both in his time and certainly now wouldn't offer you much in the way of argument -- he was never very popular, and there was some angst between he and the other apostles.

I would hope so. Most of the objectionable items in the NT come from him, and his attitudes toward women were just terrible.

As to the study, no, I've not conducted one, but have noted troubles from personal observations with various Christians I've known who married non-Christians. Speaking from that observation, I've yet to see Christian/non-Christian marriages last long despite the best of intentions (for the reasons I noted before). Have others lasted? Likely, but none that I've seen. Keep in mind that the Christian of which I speak is one who lives in accordance with the Scriptures (i.e. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey my commands"), not the person who pays lip-service to some of the ideals of Christianity, while not surrendering their lives to Christ (which seems to be the majority of those labeling themselves as "Christians").

My wife was a Christian (full-blown, attending Bible study, church every Sunday, etc). We've been happily married for more than 10 years. She eventually left the church, but I never pressured her to do so. I let her take the kids to Sunday school and I even tagged along (and I didn't put up my anti-creationism website until after she left the church).

If a Christian and non-Christian are experiencing friction because one is trying to convert the other, they should have seen this coming before they got married. I think the real problem is people not getting to know each other well enough before marriage. I hear a lot of people talk about big change after marriage, as if a new person came out. I experienced none of that.

[jegs2]

Yeah "interfaith" marriages between true Christians and non-Christians doesn't work because the Christians sees their spouse as unenlightened hellbound heathen scum.

While they may see their spouses as "Hell-bound," they would not see them as, "heathen scum." In the instances I mentioned to Mike, the marriages broke up because neither side would give in to the other (the non-Christian thought their spouse a "Jesus-freak," while the Christian thought their spouse "anti-Jesus"). The couples split apart while not hating each other -- they just found themselves hopelessly incompatible. Admitedly, non-faith issues also dominate in failures of marriage. For example, too many people marry in order to get what they want from their partner instead of giving all they are to their partner.

[jegs2]

My wife was a Christian (full-blown, attending Bible study, church every Sunday, etc). We've been happily married for more than 10 years. She eventually left the church, but I never pressured her to do so. I let her take the kids to Sunday school and I even tagged along (and I didn't put up my anti-creationism website until after she left the church).

Yes, but she did come over to your point of view, abandoning her church. In the cases I mentioned earlier, there was no give on either side, and there must be. If both are non-Christian, that isn't an issue. Of course, the inverse is also true.

If a Christian and non-Christian are experiencing friction because one is trying to convert the other, they should have seen this coming before they got married. I think the real problem is people not getting to know each other well enough before marriage. I hear a lot of people talk about big change after marriage, as if a new person came out. I experienced none of that.

I couldn't agree more.

[Darth Wong]

My wife was a Christian (full-blown, attending Bible study, church every Sunday, etc). We've been happily married for more than 10 years. She eventually left the church, but I never pressured her to do so. I let her take the kids to Sunday school and I even tagged along (and I didn't put up my anti-creationism website until after she left the church).

Yes, but she did come over to your point of view, abandoning her church. In the cases I mentioned earlier, there was no give on either side, and there must be. If both are non-Christian, that isn't an issue. Of course, the inverse is also true.

We never had any friction over it before she left the church either, and I didn't actually expect her to leave the church until she suddenly announced it one day (she'd had an epiphany of sorts while reading a book about Biblical history which was, ironically enough, written by a believer).

We talked about it at great length while dating and were both at peace with the situation. We had decided how to handle childraising issues etc. There are ways to make "interfaith" marriages work, as long as the people want them to work. Ultimately, the biggest problem with marriage today is that people don't really want to do what it takes to make them work. The first option they think of when they run into trouble is not "how can fix this" but "let's just forget the whole thing".

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Is it this ignorant and bigoted in America, truly?

Yes, yes it is.

Especially in the South. Atheists have to be the most unfairly treated group in America. Even moderate Christians think negatively of them.

Several state constitutions and groups bar Athiests from joining, and I'm guessing it's because they think they're "immoral" or something. Can they back up this argument? Not without resorting to the Bible.

Many people have such an attitude because they probably never met an Athiest, and any depictions of them were from some bigoted person close to them.

[haas mark]

I can't believe this actually happened to me.

A girl refused to actually go out with me because I'm an atheist. Unfucking believeable.

I'm actually more shocked/amused than pissed/sad.

Is it this ignorant and bigoted in America, truly?

Yep.

[Sir Sirius]

She was likely living in obedience to that which she believes. What follows is the Biblical passage concerning what you experienced:

2 Cor 6:14-15
14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?
(NIV)

... Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. <-One of the characteristics common to cults and a very effective method of guaranteeing the continued subservience of followers, nice to know that christianity has adopted shuch wonderfully open minded tactics.

[Mark S]

She was likely living in obedience to that which she believes. What follows is the Biblical passage concerning what you experienced:

2 Cor 6:14-15
14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?
(NIV)

... Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. <-One of the characteristics common to cults and a very effective method of guaranteeing the continued subservience of followers, nice to know that christianity has adopted shuch wonderfully open minded tactics.

What did you think it started as?

[Stravo]

As someone currently involved in a similair dilemma, the girl I'm starting to date is a born again Christian. I must say that there is a certian tension there between us, not as much as between an athiest and a believer, as I am a believer but I do not believe in the fundamentalist mindset that these born agains revel in.

It is difficult because the fundamentalist nature of the born agains forces them to talk about their religion on a daily basis so it comes up even when you want to avoid it. It's not easy and let me tell you, unless you REALLY like the person, it's hard to put up with the religious tension between you.

Although in your case, Illuminatus, I have to wonder what you guys were talking about that your athiesm came up. This relationship I'm currently testing the waters with, the SOLE reason religion came up is because on her side its very important and its always a topic of conversation with her. All the other women I've dated, religion came up as an afterthought , usually deep into the relationship.

And i would hesitate to paint all believers as intolerant as on my end I have dated athiests with nary a thought or worry and would do so again. Heck I've even dated a muslim girl in my past, so for some believers, your own beliefs are just that YOURS.

[Darth Wong]

It is difficult because the fundamentalist nature of the born agains forces them to talk about their religion on a daily basis so it comes up even when you want to avoid it. It's not easy and let me tell you, unless you REALLY like the person, it's hard to put up with the religious tension between you.

The problem is the inherent inequity of the situation. She can talk all she likes about her beliefs, but you must bite your tongue on a regular basis. A relationship which starts that way is headed for trouble.

[Captain Jack]

I still haven't told my family that I'm atheist. My dad wouldn't care (he cares about religion about as little as I do), but my mom, who is not very tolerant of beliefs that differ from hers (although she pretends otherwise), would be not at all pleased.

Same here. In South Africa no one cares about your religion, as long as you have one.

[Rob Wilson]

Considering she used such a biased excuse, be glad you're rid of her. However you have to be careful not to jump the gun here, Just because a White girl might refuse to date a black man becuase of his colour, doesn't mean all white people are bigotted. Likewise not all Christians will refuse to have anything to do with you because you're an Atheist (some will even go ahead and marry you ), The girls intolerant, the religion is largely intolerant, but that doesn't mean all Christians are intolerant.

[Stravo]

It is difficult because the fundamentalist nature of the born agains forces them to talk about their religion on a daily basis so it comes up even when you want to avoid it. It's not easy and let me tell you, unless you REALLY like the person, it's hard to put up with the religious tension between you.

The problem is the inherent inequity of the situation. She can talk all she likes about her beliefs, but you must bite your tongue on a regular basis. A relationship which starts that way is headed for trouble.

You know Wong, NOW I get what you were trying to tell me in the other thread....