Non-Africans are part Neanderthal?

[Dalton]

This is fascinating, if it isn't crackpot science. Link to the article.

Some of the human X chromosome originates from Neanderthals and is found exclusively in people outside Africa, according to an international team of researchers led by Damian Labuda of the Department of Pediatrics at the University of Montreal and the CHU Sainte-Justine Research Center. The research was published in the July issue of Molecular Biology and Evolution.

"This confirms recent findings suggesting that the two populations interbred," says Dr. Labuda. His team places the timing of such intimate contacts and/or family ties early on, probably at the crossroads of the Middle East.

Guess that explains Ron Perlman.

[HMS Sophia]

Would this imply that non-Africans have a different genetic ancestry to African's? to what extent?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Would this imply that non-Africans have a different genetic ancestry to African's? to what extent?

Uh, it says so right in the snippet of the article quoted by Dalton.

Some of the human X chromosome originates from Neanderthals and is found exclusively in people outside Africa

In short. Yes. Non-African human lineage includes a small portion of Neanderthal (six percent, by some estimates,) which isn't found in African human lineage.

[SilverWingedSeraph]

Which would be because the descendants of Homo neanderthalensis migrated out of Africa well before Homo sapiens arose. If I recall correctly, Neanderthals evolved somewhere around Europe and parts of Asia, while Homo sapiens evolved in Africa and then migrated outwards from there. So those of African descent lack Neanderthal DNA, because their ancestors never got the chance to meet (and by extension breed with) our now-extinct evolutionary cousins.

It's kinda cool to know that Homo neanderthalensis isn't completely extinct and that it kinda lives on with us, though.

[Anguirus]

I heard Laurent Excoffier, who works on genetics of ancestral human populations, alluding to this work in a recent lecture he gave at my university. Doesn't really surprise me. Due to other genetic work biological anthropologists already speak of a singular exodus of modern humans out of Africa. It's just confirmed that they mixed with Neandertals--who were in Eurasia at the time--to a substantial degree before spreading elsewhere.

[ArmorPierce]

This isn't the first time I heard this, I thought that it was old news.

[LaCroix]

This isn't the first time I heard this, I thought that it was old news.

It's been disputed for quite a while, with no conclusive proof...

[madd0ct0r]

i thought this paper had settled it?

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/328/5 ... f_ipsecsha

[Alkaloid]

As far as I understand there's some evidence that suggests it happened with other groups of proto humans in asia as well. I don't have any proof of that though, just something I remember hearing, and it doesn't seem unreasonable.

[DudeGuyMan]

This proves that black people are genetically different from everyone else in a scientifically verifiable way. That's why they're so inferior. /racistbullshit

This proves that the African black man is the pure race, while white devils are those pure African black men polluted by congress with lesser species. /racistkookery

I kinda wanna see the hysterical mess certain people are no doubt making of this in certain corners of the internet that I do not tread.

[ArmorPierce]

This isn't the first time I heard this, I thought that it was old news.

It's been disputed for quite a while, with no conclusive proof...

what maddoctor posted. I thought that genetic testing had been done in the past year or two because I've read about this beforehand.

[LaCroix]

This isn't the first time I heard this, I thought that it was old news.

It's been disputed for quite a while, with no conclusive proof...

what maddoctor posted. I thought that genetic testing had been done in the past year or two because I've read about this beforehand.

As far as I understand, this is the first "other" series of tests, proving the results of the first.

Dr. Labuda and his team almost a decade ago had identified a piece of DNA (called a haplotype) in the human X chromosome that seemed different and whose origins they questioned. When the Neanderthal genome was sequenced in 2010, they quickly compared 6000 chromosomes from all parts of the world to the Neanderthal haplotype. The Neanderthal sequence was present in peoples across all continents, except for sub-Saharan Africa, and including Australia.

[Knife]

I find it absolutely fascinating. It's one of those things you learn about in school where two early human races lived by each other and everyone thought... Hey did they bump uglies? I was always told they didn't way back in the day in school. Kind of cool to know that the male urge to fuck anything female won out over tribalism.

[LaCroix]

I find it absolutely fascinating. It's one of those things you learn about in school where two early human races lived by each other and everyone thought... Hey did they bump uglies? I was always told they didn't way back in the day in school. Kind of cool to know that the male urge to fuck anything female won out over tribalism.

Even two years ago, there still was a dispute whether that was true, as they compared mitochondrial DNA and found that their only (three?) samples they were able to extract didn't match with modern humans.

And about the male urge - no matter how different the Neandergirls looked, I bet they beat sabre-tooth sheep and Mammoths hands down...

[ArmorPierce]

Is it likely that the majority of the interbreeding occured in around the middle east area accounting for the fact that all other people but sub-saharan africans have the genes?

[Tasoth]

Is it likely that the majority of the interbreeding occured in around the middle east area accounting for the fact that all other people but sub-saharan africans have the genes?

That's possibly one answer. I can think of two more: One being that a population that had already interbreed enough with Neanderthal to carry the genes migrated eastward. It would probably have been a population of Homo erectus (pretty sure that was the Neanderthal's comtemporary) and we know that H. erectus migrated a whole bunch. The second, and probably less likely, is that Neanderthal had a wide enough distribution to allow for many populations to cross breed. I really don't know how likely that one is as I have no clue as to how dispersed Neanderthals were.

[someone_else]

Good to see more proofs of that story (that isn't very new).

Even two years ago, there still was a dispute whether that was true, as they compared mitochondrial DNA and found that their only (three?) samples they were able to extract didn't match with modern humans.

If those weren't nehandertals, it means that men bumped uglies. Mitochondrial DNA always comes from the mother (as all mitochondrion and anything else not being father's DNA anyway).

Although I thought the opposite would happen. The Beauty and the Beast, so to speak.

[Bedlam]

Is it likely that the majority of the interbreeding occured in around the middle east area accounting for the fact that all other people but sub-saharan africans have the genes?

It could potentially mean that only a single sub population cross bred later on and the neanderthal gene's gave them such a signifciant advantage (disease resistance?) that they forced the other populations to extinction and then spread out to the rest of the world, although its probably less likely.

[Akhlut]

If those weren't nehandertals, it means that men bumped uglies. Mitochondrial DNA always comes from the mother (as all mitochondrion and anything else not being father's DNA anyway).

Although I thought the opposite would happen. The Beauty and the Beast, so to speak.

It doesn't mean that there weren't Neanderthal women having sex with human males, just that their daughters' lines didn't survive to the modern era. There sons and daughter's sons could have had a great deal of children just fine.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Is it likely that the majority of the interbreeding occured in around the middle east area accounting for the fact that all other people but sub-saharan africans have the genes?

That's pretty much what most of the evidence suggests. Sapiens had to pass through the middle east to get to the rest of the planet, and there were already Neanderthal populations there (with the middle east being about southern and easternmost extent of their range.)

That's possibly one answer. I can think of two more: One being that a population that had already interbreed enough with Neanderthal to carry the genes migrated eastward. It would probably have been a population of Homo erectus (pretty sure that was the Neanderthal's comtemporary) and we know that H. erectus migrated a whole bunch.

Uh. No. The evidence we have falls firmly into the 'out-of-Africa' camp for the origins of 'modern' humans. Furthermore, our current understanding of the human family tree is that Erectus, Neanderthal, and Sapiens all share a common ancestor in Eragaster who lived between 1.8 and 1.4 million years ago. The point of divergence for Erectus and the branch of hominids which would give rise to Sapiens and Neanderthal occurred around 1.4 - 1.6 million years ago. The point of divergence between Neanderthal and the branch of hominids who'd give rise to Sapiens occurred about half a million years ago.

It could potentially mean that only a single sub population cross bred later on and the neanderthal gene's gave them such a significiant advantage (disease resistance?) that they forced the other populations to extinction and then spread out to the rest of the world, although its probably less likely.

According to the article that I linked to in my first response to this thread, this seems to have been the advantage gained from interbreeding with Neanderthals. The six percent of DNA that modern Europeans shares with Neanderthals accounts for about half of the modern human leukocyte antigens (those things that govern immune response and are responsible for such things like why you can't just randomly swap organs between people and expect them to not immediately die of a massive immune response. This clearly conferred a huge boost in immunity to early 'modern' human/Neanderthal hybrids compared to other 'moderns' who attempted to leave the safety of sub-Saharan Africa.)

[LaCroix]

It doesn't mean that there weren't Neanderthal women having sex with human males, just that their daughters' lines didn't survive to the modern era. There sons and daughter's sons could have had a great deal of children just fine.

Exactly, that's why the dispute went on. The first time a 'Erecthalian' with Neanderthal mother had only sons procreating, that part of the evidence line disappeared. Mitochondrial DNA only works so far in this scenario. The idea to check for this was basically a scientific grasp for straws...

[Elfdart]

Isn't this more or less the same thing that happened with the red wolf (an older canid species) being mostly absorbed by the coyote (a newer one)?

[StarSword]

Would this imply that non-Africans have a different genetic ancestry to African's? to what extent?

Can't wait to see what the fragging white supremacists make of that thought.