Borders Bookstores to Liquidate

[Terralthra]

I worked at Borders for 5 years and got out just as things started getting really bad. Before management started going batshit insane, the store was an amazing place to work.

I'd be curious to hear about how management fucked up over there. What I've heard about Borders (including the "over-expansion" bit) was from a former Borders manager on another forum plus the news. The guy also mentioned a number of other things, like how over-use of coupons helped drive up traffic but severely hurt their profit margins in 2009-2010.

Anecdotally, this is very true for me. I joined Borders Rewards in 2009, and from that time on, like clockwork, I got a new coupon every week or two. I've bought many books in the past two years, but never at less than a 30% discount from sticker. More typically 35%-40%.

[Stark]

I haven't gone over completely to ebooks mainly because I still like having a hard copy for certain things (like the 40K stuff I waste my time on - having the book on hand is useful.) I also like just having some books because a good book can't run out of power, have a malfunction or anything like that. That doesn't mean I won't switch over to a Kindle or Nook or some generic ebook reader - my cell phones for the past few years have all had a pdf function and I sometimes used it as a makeshift reader (and before that I would always download and read Baen stuff online on and off) but it was always more "something to do when I didn't have anything else."

Oddly, I've been hooked on ebooks for quite some years now, simply because they allow me to enjoy a book when I can't be physically holding one (good for the sorts of games I enjoy playing, or sitting in a waiting room, or whatever.) It can be expensive though (moreso than some hardcovers at least) so I usually have to shop around or use the local library (which has a very extensive sharing network AND a huge audio library - which is how I got into this to begin with.)

Do you think this is relevant?

Anecdotally, this is very true for me. I joined Borders Rewards in 2009, and from that time on, like clockwork, I got a new coupon every week or two. I've bought many books in the past two years, but never at less than a 30% discount from sticker. More typically 35%-40%.

I mentioned earlier that in AU, simply calling up about a book they didn't have in stock could get you a 10% discount as part of their online ordering. It certainly looks like they ate into their own margins in an attempt to keep their customers loyal, which was probably a bad idea without fundamentally reassessing how they did business.

Regarding buildings, the Brisbane Borders had a lot of custom fitout and is a three-story space with internal escalators. Anyone else who wants to rent that space will have to be the biggest haberdashery store ever or pay heaps to move the access around and subdivide.

[eion]

I worked at Borders for 5 years and got out just as things started getting really bad. Before management started going batshit insane, the store was an amazing place to work.

I'd be curious to hear about how management fucked up over there. What I've heard about Borders (including the "over-expansion" bit) was from a former Borders manager on another forum plus the news. The guy also mentioned a number of other things, like how over-use of coupons helped drive up traffic but severely hurt their profit margins in 2009-2010.

Anecdotally, this is very true for me. I joined Borders Rewards in 2009, and from that time on, like clockwork, I got a new coupon every week or two. I've bought many books in the past two years, but never at less than a 30% discount from sticker. More typically 35%-40%.

There also the major issue that during the first holiday season of Borders Rewards they gave away Hundreds of Millions of $s in discounts as part of the Holiday Savings Program. They realized pretty quickly that cutting into their bottom line during the only black ink period was just about the stupidest thing one could do.

[ComradeClaus]

I used to have discount cards for B. Dalton Bookseller and Waldenbooks for a long time. At Waldenbooks I had their Other World discount card back in the 80s and switched to the preferred reader card in the late 80s and kept it for nearly 20 years. Then Borders decided they were going to switch their preferred reader thing to a different format with a new card. Soon after that Waldenbooks was gone and I had to go to Borders instead. I initially didn't mind all that much since Borders had a larger selection and lots of TPBs that I liked to peruse and buy. The problem I had was the stupid preferred reader program. I might have messed it up when setting up my account but I would get reports that I had a bunch of points but then I'd be at the store and I wouldn't have any points or I wouldn't be allowed to use them at that time. I just got sick of it and switch to using Amazon.

Since I work nights it is much easier for me to buy things via Amazon than it is to make trips out to stores which may or may not have what I'm looking for. I liked Borders until they irritated me with that program. I had been trying to support local businesses and it just became to annoying to do so when it came to purchasing books. When I switched to buying books online it also meant that I switched to mostly buying DVDs online so Borders also helped hurt my local Best Buy.

The Borders nearest to me has a coffee shop in it just like Barnes & Noble. It might have more floor spaced devoted to merchandise though. At one time they had very extended hours. Opening early and staying open until 0100 on some nights. I even saw a band playing live in the store once. If they had kept their extended hours and not jerked me around with the preferred reader program I might have kept shopping there on a regular basis.

It's hard to believe that the mall nearest to me used to have two chain bookstores in it and a big Borders a couple of blocks down the street.

The mall in town had a Waldenbooks, i loved going there as a kid & was griefstricken when it closed, then amazed when Borders opened, now it's going too.

Damn, I've always hated change. it's never brought me anything good.

As for the trend in E-books, I don't piut much faith in them. any harddrive crash & you're out thousands of dollars you've paid in digital literature. I prefer old-fashioned paper. Plus I love the smell of a new book & the sound of pages flipping. I'd hoped that Borders could've saved itself, but... DAMN, those mistakes it made were stupid!

It's strange how many significant things are happening this year. Japan gets quakednuked, the Middle East has a wave of revolution, Bin Laden gets turned into fish food, Liz Taylor dies, now Borders closes.

Seriously, what next?!

[weemadando]

http://m.theage.com.au/opinion/society- ... 1cc7b.html

That's the best commentary on the Australian Borders closures that you'll read.

[Simon_Jester]

As for the trend in paper books, I don't put much faith in them. Any flood or fire and you're out thousands of dollars you've paid in paper literature. I prefer new-fangled technological felgercarb.

I've had computer fuckups more often than I've had my house burn down. You?

Of course, I don't use this argument either way.

Again, it bothers me that if this trend goes on to its logical conclusion, I eventually won't have the option of buying new books at an economical price.

[madd0ct0r]

I'll miss borders.

sure, it eviscerated the local bookshops, whom I miss too, but it was open late.

come off the building site. shower and a meal and then walk down the backstreets of Oxford to browse for a happy hour or so. magic

[Zaune]

The curious thing about Torbay is there are literally tens of thousands of EFL students who spend millions on random crap - there must be a market there, but no ones doing anything. Bloody strange.

If you're talking about books specifically, Waterstones and WH Smith have that market pretty well sewn up in the UK, which is probably why Borders had such a short and undistinguished tenure over here. And come to think of it, Smith's have the random crap market down pretty well too these days, to the considerable detriment of their book selection.

[DudeGuyMan]

I live near Detroit. When shit goes vacant, it stays that way. Anyway, put me down as one of those Luddites that only wants paper books.

[Formless]

If only e-readers could show full color illustrations, or for that matter any kind of illustration at all without requiring a battery intensive LCD screen. And didn't cost an arm and a leg, plus some if you ever break it and lose access to your entire e-library till it either gets fixed or (more likely) replaced.

Technofetishists these days wouldn't know a trade off if it bit them on the ass...

But more seriously, I will miss Borders. Barnes and Noble is all pretense and atmosphere and as far as I can tell no more actual selection if not less in some departments. And its a damn shame but there are no independent booksellers in my area worth talking about unless you are willing to drive all the way up to Boulder. And I just know no one is going to come in and replace the vacant lot-- hell, not only are there stores that have gone empty for years on end here, the local library got shut down and its books moved to a different branch and only recently has the city finally found a use for the building-- turning it into a food bank of all things. True story.

[Stark]

Since Borders sold ebooks and wasn't put out of business by ebook sales, but physical book sales, who even gives a fuck? Amazon (and others) destroyed Borders not through the Kindle, but their superior supply chain and the low cost of international shipping. The article Ando linked is pretty informative (if incomplete and focused on Australia).

The fact that nerds are conservative and can't handle change is a totally separate - but deeply amusing - issue. The number of people who think the 'logical conclusion' of this 'trend' is the extinction of publishing is pretty damning of local IQs. Where did the adversarial mindset between ebooks and publishing even come from?

For me the best thing about ebooks is that I can change the font and typesetting, and fix errors. Relevant to Borders closures? NOT REALLY!

EDIT - holy shit Formless, do you have any idea at all about ereaders? My Kindle cost me less than a single harcover at Borders and displays images way better than crapass mass-market paper. The images can even be manipulated, or multi-layered.

It'd be pretty amazing (and relevant to Borders closures) if any of the major e-readers had desktop and mobile apps that read books, hey? Oh shi-

[Formless]

Good for you, Starkers, the only e-readers available around here cost around 100$ on up and can only display this black and white crap that looks no better than a decent printed paperback. Oh, but obviously I've never looked around at the selection here, no sirrey! Fucking idiot.

P.S. thanks for missing the entire rest of the point, troll.

[Stark]

Yeah, *I'M* the troll for pointing out your post was nearly 100% factually incorrect regarding ereaders. Hilariously due to the backend and various reading vectors, it is very difficult to lose instant access to your library, even if you make no effort to secure backups yourself! E-ink displays can display pictures, and have been able to since like 2007. At $100, the ereader will require 10 book purchases to have paid for itself, even if you are unlucky and get the 'this price is set by the publisher to rape you' books.

Physical books are cool; I own thousands of dollars worth of well-bound hardcovers. You don't see me ignorantly knee-jerking against ev0l ebooks in a thread about something else entirely.

[Formless]

Can't you buy from Amazon.com and have something delivered to your door, thus rendering the local distributor kinda obsolete?

(lol back on topic!)

I could, but then I couldn't complain about how my entire neighborhood is going to shit. But also because I don't find online transactions particularly convenient currently. ( )

Starkers, seriously, at least Destructo is a funny troll (sometimes). I just said your experience doesn't match up to my own, so frankly fuck you when you say my posts are factually incorrect. And a double fuck you for accusing me of having a hate on for e-readers when all I've said is that there are trade offs (like all the other trade offs I listed, color among them). You simply can't imagine anyone having a different experience than you, can you? Besides, I don't read books at a rate which would justify a 100$ gadget. So again, trade offs, and fuck you.

[Stark]

Sorry, your opinions are irrelevant and your facts are flat-out wrong.

If only e-readers could show full color illustrations, or for that matter any kind of illustration at all without requiring a battery intensive LCD screen

Yeah, if only! This must be due to a 'different experience' and not simply your ignorance, right?

As a book lover, an ebook reader lets me read my books without risking damage to them, their leaves or binding. Turns out it's not a binary choice or an adversarily relationship or a 'tradeoff'.

Can't you buy from Amazon.com and have something delivered to your door, thus rendering the local distributor kinda obsolete?

Lots of people's posts in the thread seem to suggest they enjoy being in bookstores, or knowing people in bookstores, or talking to bookstore staff or whatever. For these people, buying online probably doesn't give them the 'experience' they want, but obviously for anyone who wants 'to own book x' online is better. The realities of logistics also ensure that buying online will pretty much always be cheaper, depending on final leg shipping costs.

[Formless]

Look, STRAK, I'm not going to be your entertainment for the night. I seriously cannot afford a Kindle, don't care to buy shit online like some people, and the local distributors sell what to you must seem like cheap yet overpriced crap. You want the last word, you can have it, because I can't see it being any more intelligent than what you've posted yet.

[Stark]

Look, STRAK, I'm not going to be your entertainment for the night. I seriously cannot afford a Kindle, don't care to buy shit online like some people, and the local distributors sell what to you must seem like cheap yet overpriced crap. You want the last word, you can have it, because I can't see it being any more intelligent than what you've posted yet.

If only you'd said that in the first place instead of a lot of poorly-informed garbage? Being butthurt isn't a replacement for intelligence or facts, unfortunately. Your preference is informed by your buying preferences, an not any of that fiction you made up about ereaders.

D13, the advent of services like Amazon may have made the 'small town bookstore' concept impractical. There are plenty of bookstores in Brisbane, but if I was in some regional area I'm not sure it'd be practical to run a shop holding a huge pile of overpriced stock for a tiny audience that could just as easily buy online (and probably get a better range than is practical to maintian). Boutique bookstores (business, historical, technical) are a different thing, but people here don't seem to be talking about those.

[Skgoa]

One good effect the move of the mass-market to eBooks will/would/might have is empowering the authors. People are already making a living from independently publishing on the 'net. If they can get access to the mass-market without being forced to go through the publishers (a big hurdle for many, many aspiring authors) they at least get a chance.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

...

People who say ebooks are the future obviously have not bothered to read reference texts. I assure you flipping to and fro across an entire few hundred page book will do wonders for the sanity.

[JointStrikeFighter]

ebooks arent the future because they aren't capable of specialty applications?

PS if the choice is between and ebook reader and carrying a 5kg book into the field the ebook reader wins.

[weemadando]

I would have fucking killed for an eBook reader during uni.

[Stofsk]

I would have fucking killed for an eBook reader during uni.

Can you imagine what it would be like? You have an eBook reader for class, ALL of your set texts and readings are made available via the library. No more spending absurd prices for text books you'll only use one semester.

I love paper books and I don't even have an ereader but it has obvious benefits.

[weemadando]

Man, to be honest I hadn't even considered cost issues...

But now that you mention that. FUUUUUUCK.

Not to mention potentially being able to get around the fucking issues you have where unless you do the bolt from the lecture the moment the assignment options are announced, there's no chance you'll be able to get ANY of the relevant material because all the fuckers who have just done the bolt will have grabbed everything even marginally relevant.

Hell - having the most basic e-book libraries of things like The Internent Medieval Sourcebook would have been a god-send.

Just, fuck man. That'd be great.

[Stofsk]

A lot of the study materials tends to be provided for my classes as per the 'online student resources' thing my uni's got going. Depending on the class there may be a set text book, for literature there will be a bunch of them, but I can easily see universities transitioning to ebook support, if not already then pretty soon. It's just too damn useful.

Stuff like printing the study materials in compilation format would require quite a bit of money, I imagine, which cash-strapped faculties would be eager to get away from if it means putting the money towards other resources.

[Faqa]

It works fine for "straight-text" textbooks like history or literature.

But, say a biology textbook? Just no. Hell, even math is pushing it. Amazon actually gave students Kindle DXs for free to check this. They were back to dead trees within a month.

Personally, I say wait on an e-ink tablet to fix these problems. It's mostly size and partially rendering.

In the meantime, with consumer reading? E-books win so hard it's not even funny. You can backup your library, you can take it everywhere and it's comfortable to read.

Printing will be confined to fetishists and the sort of people who pre-order the ultra-super edition of shit with extra plastic toys - meaning nerds with too much disposable income.