Evidence "strongly suggests" that a United Nations peacekeeping mission brought a cholera strain to Haiti that has killed thousands of people, a study by a team of epidemiologists and physicians says.
The study is the strongest argument yet that newly-arrived Nepalese peacekeepers at a base near the town of Mirebalais brought with them the cholera, which spread through the waterways of the Artibonite region and elsewhere in this impoverished Caribbean country.
The disease has killed more than 5,500 people and sickened more than 363,000 others since it was discovered in October, according to the Haitian government.
"Our findings strongly suggest that contamination of the Artibonite (river) and 1 of its tributaries downstream from a military camp triggered the epidemic," said the report in the July issue of Emerging Infectious Diseases, a journal of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The article says there is "an exact correlation" in time and place between the arrival of a Nepalese battalion from an area of its South Asian homeland that was experiencing a cholera outbreak and the appearance of the first cases in the Meille river a few days later.
The remoteness of the Meille river in central Haiti and the absence of other factors make it unlikely that the cholera strain could have come to Haiti in any other way, the report says.
March 8, 1975: Haiti Watch Video
June 8, 1994: Military Action in Haiti? Watch Video
Haiti's Poor Eat Mud Cookies Watch Video
In an email U.N. mission spokeswoman Sylvie Van Den Wildenberg didn't comment on the findings of the article published in the CDC journal, referring only to a study released in May by a U.N.-appointed panel.
That panel's report found that the cholera outbreak was caused by a South Asian strain imported by human activity that contaminated the Meille river where the U.N. base of the Nepalese peacekeepers is located. The study also found that bad sanitation at the camp would've made contamination of the water system possible.
But the U.N. report refrained from blaming any single group for the outbreak. While no other potential source of the bacteria itself was named, the report attributed the outbreak to a "confluence of circumstances," including a lack of water infrastructure in Haiti and Haitians' dependence on the river system.
The panel's report was ordered by U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon as anti-U.N. protests spread in Haiti and mounting circumstantial evidence pointed to the troops.
Before that, for nearly two months after the outbreak last October, the United Nations, CDC and World Health Organization refused to investigate the origin of the cholera, saying that it was more important to treat patients than to try to figure out the source.
The article published in the CDC journal comes as health workers in Haiti wrestle with a spike in the number of cholera cases brought on by several weeks of rainfall. The aid group Oxfam said earlier this month that its workers were treating more than 300 new cases a day, more than three times what they saw when the disease peaked in the fall.
Cholera is caused by a bacteria that produces severe diarrhea and is contracted by eating or drinking contaminated food or water.
The disease has spread to the neighboring Dominican Republic, where more than 36 deaths have been reported since November.
Epidemiologist Renaud Piarroux, the lead author of the CDC journal article, was initially sent by the French government in late 2010 to investigate the origins of Haiti's outbreak. He authored a report for U.N. and Haitian officials that said the Nepalese peacekeepers likely caused the outbreak, a copy of which was obtained at the time by the AP.
The latest study was more complete and its methodology was reviewed by a group of scientists.
The new study argues it is important for scientists to determine the origin of cholera outbreaks and how they spread in order to eliminate "accidentally imported disease."
Moreover, the study says, figuring out the source of a cholera epidemic would help health workers better treat and prevent cholera by minimizing the "distrust associated with the widespread suspicions of a cover-up of a deliberate importation of cholera."
March 8, 1975: Haiti Watch Video
June 8, 1994: Military Action in Haiti? Watch Video
Haiti's Poor Eat Mud Cookies Watch Video
It also argues that demonstrating an imported origin would compel "international organizations to reappraise their procedures."
After cholera surfaced last fall, many Haitians believed the Nepalese peacekeepers were to blame, straining relations between the population and U.N. personnel and sparking angry protests. On the streets, cholera has become slang for something that must be banished from Haiti.
The new study is acknowledged in a commentary by a pair of public health experts affiliated with the CDC.
"However it occurred, there is little doubt that the organism was introduced to Haiti by a traveler from abroad, and this fact raises important public health considerations," wrote Scott Dowell, director of the CDC's Division of Global Disease Detection and Emergency Response, and Christopher Braden, a medical epidemiologist with the CDC.
UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
- K. A. Pital
- Glamorous Commie
- Posts: 20813
- Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
- Location: Elysium
UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... d=13963826
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
- Ritterin Sophia
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 5496
- Joined: 2006-07-25 09:32am
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
That brings up an interesting question to me: Who is responsible for determining UN Peacekeeping Forces standards? Do member nations who wish their forces to partake just send whoever they feel like?
A Certain Clique, HAB, The Chroniclers
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Yes.General Schatten wrote:That brings up an interesting question to me: Who is responsible for determining UN Peacekeeping Forces standards? Do member nations who wish their forces to partake just send whoever they feel like?
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
- Lord Zentei
- Space Elf Psyker
- Posts: 8742
- Joined: 2004-11-22 02:49am
- Location: Ulthwé Craftworld, plotting the downfall of the Imperium.
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
This is unfortunately not at all surprising, and is hardly the worst that has been said of UN peacekeepers. Here's an article from three years ago, which illustrates this:
As long as there's little or no quality control on what kinds of troops are used for UN peacekeeping missions, this sort of thing will keep happening. Sadly, I get the impression that participation in these kinds of missions is largely seen as being done for political brownie points rather than for the sake of actual responsible participation in the international community.BBC wrote:Children as young as six are being sexually abused by peacekeepers and aid workers, says a leading UK charity.
Children in post-conflict areas are being abused by the very people drafted into such zones to help look after them, says Save the Children.
After research in Ivory Coast, southern Sudan and Haiti, the charity proposed an international watchdog be set up.
Save the Children said it had sacked three workers for breaching its codes, and called on others to do the same.
The three men were all dismissed in the past year for having had sex with girls aged 17 - which the charity said was a sackable offence even though not illegal.
The UN has said it welcomes the charity's report, which it will study closely.
Save the Children says the most shocking aspect of child sex abuse is that most of it goes unreported and unpunished, with children too scared to speak out.
No support
A 13-year-old girl, "Elizabeth" described to the BBC how 10 UN peacekeepers gang-raped her in a field near her Ivory Coast home.
"They grabbed me and threw me to the ground and they forced themselves on me... I tried to escape but there were 10 of them and I could do nothing," she said.
"I was terrified. Then they just left me there bleeding."
No action has been taken against the soldiers.
The report also found that aid workers have been sexually abusing boys and girls.
"In recent years, some important commitments have been made by the UN, the wider international community and by humanitarian and aid agencies to act on this problem," said Save the Children UK chief executive Jasmine Whitbread.
"However, all humanitarian and peacekeeping agencies working in emergency situations, including Save the Children UK, must own up to the fact that they are vulnerable to this problem and tackle it head on."
After research involving hundreds of children from Ivory Coast, southern Sudan and Haiti, the charity said better reporting mechanisms needed to be introduced to deal with what it called "endemic failures" in responding to reported cases of abuse.
It also said efforts should be made to strengthen worldwide child protection systems.
Heather Kerr, Save the Children's Ivory Coast country director, says little is being done to support the victims.
"It's a minority of people but they are using their power to sexually exploit children and children that don't have the voice to report about this.
"They are suffering sexual exploitation and abuse in silence."
Save the Children says the international community has promised a policy of zero-tolerance to child sexual abuse, but that this is not being followed up by action on the ground.
A UN spokesman, Nick Birnback, said that it was impossible to ensure "zero incidents" within an organisation that has up to 200,000 personnel serving around the world.
"What we can do is get across a message of zero tolerance, which for us means zero complacency when credible allegations are raised and zero impunity when we find that there has been malfeasance that's occurred," he told the BBC.
CotK <mew> | HAB | JL | MM | TTC | Cybertron
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel! -- Asuka
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel! -- Asuka
- K. A. Pital
- Glamorous Commie
- Posts: 20813
- Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
- Location: Elysium
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Military abuses like rape are also common; but that's not due to the UN par se, hence why I did not center on that. I dare say that this is because of the military as an institution is a legalized violence machine, and the type of psychological conditioning and the very nature of the military inevitably produces rapes and the like. More, or fewer, depending on the oversight, soldiers personalities, and the level of permissiveness set by the miklitary command, but it will happen. Non-UN military interventions and peacekeeping missions have also been marked by rapes and abuse.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
- Lord Zentei
- Space Elf Psyker
- Posts: 8742
- Joined: 2004-11-22 02:49am
- Location: Ulthwé Craftworld, plotting the downfall of the Imperium.
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
That's true, though some military outfits are clearly more professional than others. The UN doesn't exactly get the cream of the crop in that respect. And WTF is up with aid workers abusing children?
CotK <mew> | HAB | JL | MM | TTC | Cybertron
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel! -- Asuka
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel! -- Asuka
- LaCroix
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 5196
- Joined: 2004-12-21 12:14pm
- Location: Sopron District, Hungary, Europe, Terra
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Well, there are two types of people who would volunteer to go somewhere to deal with lots of helpless children. 99%( At least I hope so) are the good kind.Lord Zentei wrote:And WTF is up with aid workers abusing children?
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay
I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.
I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.
- fgalkin
- Carvin' Marvin
- Posts: 14557
- Joined: 2002-07-03 11:51pm
- Location: Land of the Mountain Fascists
- Contact:
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Eh, at least they've not turned the country into one giant rape camp like they did with Bosnia and Kosovo. Or did things like burning people alive over a brazier for the hell of it like in Somalia, or repeatedly raping children in Sudan (or just forcing them into sex for food). And, unlike Darfur, the deputy commander of the UN force in Haiti is not himself accused of committing massacres. Of course, since UN personnel are immune to being prosecuted for war crimes, they will get off lightly, like they usually do.
In fact, I can't remember a UN peacekeeping mission that wasn't plagued by problems like this. All of them are pretty much the definition of failure.
Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
In fact, I can't remember a UN peacekeeping mission that wasn't plagued by problems like this. All of them are pretty much the definition of failure.
Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
- The Romulan Republic
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 21559
- Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Who the fuck decided it was a good idea to make UN personel immune to prosecution from war crimes? Shouldn't the people upholding international law be accountable to it as well?
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
The US is involved. What do you think?The Romulan Republic wrote:Who the fuck decided it was a good idea to make UN personel immune to prosecution from war crimes? Shouldn't the people upholding international law be accountable to it as well?
"A word of advice: next time you post, try not to inadvertently reveal why you've had no success with real women." Darth Wong to Bubble Boy
"I see you do not understand objectivity," said Tom Carder, a fundie fucknut to Darth Wong
"I see you do not understand objectivity," said Tom Carder, a fundie fucknut to Darth Wong
-
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 30165
- Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
This strikes me as silly.
Does the US have more incentive to prevent Americans assigned to UN peacekeeping missions from being prosecuted than, say, Rwanda has to protect Rwandans?
Does the US have more incentive to prevent Americans assigned to UN peacekeeping missions from being prosecuted than, say, Rwanda has to protect Rwandans?
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
No, but they have enough influence that they can just screw the rules whenever they want. If Rwanda commits warcrimes and is unapologetic, they might get into serious diplomatic trouble. If the USA do the same, they'll get some stern words and everything will go on as usual.Simon_Jester wrote:This strikes me as silly.
Does the US have more incentive to prevent Americans assigned to UN peacekeeping missions from being prosecuted than, say, Rwanda has to protect Rwandans?
SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick
Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick
Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
- Ritterin Sophia
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 5496
- Joined: 2006-07-25 09:32am
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Your source?Eulogy wrote:The US is involved. What do you think?
A Certain Clique, HAB, The Chroniclers
-
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 30165
- Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Rwanda, and a lot of other nations, might make their participation in UN operations conditional on not being prosecuted for war crimes.
I wouldn't reflexively assume the initiative here came from the US exclusively, or even primarily.
I wouldn't reflexively assume the initiative here came from the US exclusively, or even primarily.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
- Ritterin Sophia
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 5496
- Joined: 2006-07-25 09:32am
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
That's what I was thinking given that America only has some eighty-odd peacekeepers with the UN.Simon_Jester wrote:I wouldn't reflexively assume the initiative here came from the US exclusively, or even primarily.
A Certain Clique, HAB, The Chroniclers
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
It's just Serafina doing her normal "America is the cause of all the world's ills" thing.General Schatten wrote:That's what I was thinking given that America only has some eighty-odd peacekeepers with the UN.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
- Sea Skimmer
- Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
- Posts: 37390
- Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
- Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
They aren’t. The only thing they are immune from is prosecution for war crimes specifically at the Europeans preciously retarded international criminal court, has it gotten ahold of Qaddafi yet? . Since the top military powers on earth all didn’t sign up to the ICC the whole idea was a non starter anyway. Other immunity may be negotiated on a case by case basis between the UN and occupied nations protecting UN troops from local courts. They are always accountable to the provider nations courts. UN peacekeepers will always suck when you get the majority of them from third world countries and assign them to guard other third world countries. Of course that might be solved by giving the UN full time troops of its own, but those would be you know, mercenaries by definition, and thus evil evil evil!The Romulan Republic wrote:Who the fuck decided it was a good idea to make UN personel immune to prosecution from war crimes? Shouldn't the people upholding international law be accountable to it as well?
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
- someone_else
- Jedi Knight
- Posts: 854
- Joined: 2010-02-24 05:32am
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Technically speaking, where sewers are not working and people is massed very closely with poor sanitation, anyone is expecting an outbreak of cholera. It is just a matter of time.
From where it comes isn't really relevant, since it is more or less ubiquitous and can survive anywhere.
From where it comes isn't really relevant, since it is more or less ubiquitous and can survive anywhere.
I'm nobody. Nobody at all. But the secrets of the universe don't mind. They reveal themselves to nobodies who care.
--
Stereotypical spacecraft are pressurized.
Less realistic spacecraft are pressurized to hold breathing atmosphere.
Realistic spacecraft are pressurized because they are flying propellant tanks. -Isaac Kuo
--
Good art has function as well as form. I hesitate to spend more than $50 on decorations of any kind unless they can be used to pummel an intruder into submission. -Sriad
--
Stereotypical spacecraft are pressurized.
Less realistic spacecraft are pressurized to hold breathing atmosphere.
Realistic spacecraft are pressurized because they are flying propellant tanks. -Isaac Kuo
--
Good art has function as well as form. I hesitate to spend more than $50 on decorations of any kind unless they can be used to pummel an intruder into submission. -Sriad
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Got it mixed up with the ICC.Lonestar wrote:It's just Serafina doing her normal "America is the cause of all the world's ills" thing.General Schatten wrote:That's what I was thinking given that America only has some eighty-odd peacekeepers with the UN.
SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick
Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick
Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
- Sea Skimmer
- Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
- Posts: 37390
- Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
- Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Yeah it kind of is relevant when the country has not had a cholera outbreak in 50 years of massed poor people, and said outbreak is caused completely by a lack of basic sanitary standards found in military manuals from 100 years ago. A matter of time it clearly was not. Of course not that much can be done by Nepal since the country is too poor to reasonably provide the level of medical funding dealing with the outbreak now requires but it does suggest that maybe the UN ought to think a little more jointly about how it deploys peacekeepers. All the Nepalese troops needed to do to avoid this was move an outhouse but coming from a poor disease ridden country themselves it may literally just not have occurred to them to have been a problem like it would to any western officer worth a damn.someone_else wrote:Technically speaking, where sewers are not working and people is massed very closely with poor sanitation, anyone is expecting an outbreak of cholera. It is just a matter of time.
From where it comes isn't really relevant, since it is more or less ubiquitous and can survive anywhere.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
-
- BANNED
- Posts: 294
- Joined: 2011-07-12 05:16am
- Location: Ossurary Gateworld, Corrupted Wilderness, Star Wars Galaxy. Serving her Divine Highness.
- Contact:
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Right, the UN never did anything right, it was flawed from it's very inception.
no quality control standards for personnel (3rd world personnel can barely read & are always dying of AIDS & other blights, yet are expected to follow orders & not screw up? The UN is blindly optimistic! )
the Veto Power to permanent Security Council Members. (so anytime they have a vested interrest in a beligerent, no resolution! )
The continued habit of never fighting to protect refugess from death squads. (The Dutch Peacekeepers at Srebinica could've saved a few hundred Bosnians [buy time for them to escape] if they took on Mladic in an Alamo-Style last stand [or at least tell the bosnians to not stay before the Serbs arrived, turning the 'Safe Zone' into a Death Trap], instead they HELPED the Serbs load their victims into the trucks! )
Seriously, the US should withdraw all support for the failed system & kick them out of New York. The League of Nations was also a failed system, yet even it didn't have this many disasters befall it. (of course, it was snuffed out when WW 2 started, so it didn't have as much time to acquire a buttload o' shame) The Blue Helmet is synominous w/ UTTER failure) It takes the militaries of MAJOR nations to help the world (like the US Navy/Marines in Indonesia after the 2006 Tsunami. The US army after the Earthquake in Pakistan, the US... well, you get the picture ) If it was a US Army force at Srebinica, the commander would've told Mladic "Nuts!"
But we can't afford to be everywhere at once. Maybe the people who fund the Un fund us instead.
no quality control standards for personnel (3rd world personnel can barely read & are always dying of AIDS & other blights, yet are expected to follow orders & not screw up? The UN is blindly optimistic! )
the Veto Power to permanent Security Council Members. (so anytime they have a vested interrest in a beligerent, no resolution! )
The continued habit of never fighting to protect refugess from death squads. (The Dutch Peacekeepers at Srebinica could've saved a few hundred Bosnians [buy time for them to escape] if they took on Mladic in an Alamo-Style last stand [or at least tell the bosnians to not stay before the Serbs arrived, turning the 'Safe Zone' into a Death Trap], instead they HELPED the Serbs load their victims into the trucks! )
Seriously, the US should withdraw all support for the failed system & kick them out of New York. The League of Nations was also a failed system, yet even it didn't have this many disasters befall it. (of course, it was snuffed out when WW 2 started, so it didn't have as much time to acquire a buttload o' shame) The Blue Helmet is synominous w/ UTTER failure) It takes the militaries of MAJOR nations to help the world (like the US Navy/Marines in Indonesia after the 2006 Tsunami. The US army after the Earthquake in Pakistan, the US... well, you get the picture ) If it was a US Army force at Srebinica, the commander would've told Mladic "Nuts!"
But we can't afford to be everywhere at once. Maybe the people who fund the Un fund us instead.
- HMS Sophia
- Jedi Master
- Posts: 1231
- Joined: 2010-08-22 07:47am
- Location: Watching the levee break
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
Yeah, because the US army is so perfect and always does everything right ... knob-jockey.If it was a US Army force at Srebinica, the commander would've told Mladic "Nuts!"
"Seriously though, every time I see something like this I think 'Ooo, I'm living in the future'. Unfortunately it increasingly looks like it's going to be a cyberpunkish dystopia, where the poor eat recycled shit and the rich eat the poor." Evilsoup, on the future
StarGazer, an experiment in RPG creation
StarGazer, an experiment in RPG creation
-
- Sith Devotee
- Posts: 2777
- Joined: 2003-09-08 12:47pm
- Location: Took an arrow in the knee.
- Contact:
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
I remember Pakistani and Malaysian UN APCs* going into Mogadishu to rescue American Rangers and Delta after a certain raid went south**barnest2 wrote:Yeah, because the US army is so perfect and always does everything right ... knob-jockey.If it was a US Army force at Srebinica, the commander would've told Mladic "Nuts!"
*Granted, at the US's request, 10th Mountain Div infantry was substituted for Malaysian infantry. The vehicles and the crew were still Malaysian though
** Of course, the whole UN mission*** was a failure in the end anyway, so I suppose the point isn't changed much ultimately.
*** The raid itself was undertaken under the US chain of command though, with no input from the UN side of the operation
I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character
- Sea Skimmer
- Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
- Posts: 37390
- Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
- Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
The US would have never been retarded enough to deploy a major military ground force in a situation that hostile with no goddamn ammunition and then ordered its forces not to fight least GASP... they take casualties!barnest2 wrote: Yeah, because the US army is so perfect and always does everything right ... knob-jockey.
I love the comparison people are making with Mogadishu though, when the entire US problem was being too aggressive in complete and utter contrast to Srebrenica when the UN force was literally worth then useless, it ended up actively aiding the genocide after having created ideal conditions for it to take place in.
Last edited by Sea Skimmer on 2011-07-21 07:06pm, edited 1 time in total.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
- HMS Sophia
- Jedi Master
- Posts: 1231
- Joined: 2010-08-22 07:47am
- Location: Watching the levee break
Re: UN peacekeeping - sometimes the definition of failure
That's... that's a valid point. Sorry, I should have looked into the background before getting irritated. I'll back away slowly now.Sea Skimmer wrote: The US would have never been retarded enough to deploy a major military ground force in a situation that hostile with no goddamn ammunition and then ordered its forces not to fight least GASP... they take casualties!
"Seriously though, every time I see something like this I think 'Ooo, I'm living in the future'. Unfortunately it increasingly looks like it's going to be a cyberpunkish dystopia, where the poor eat recycled shit and the rich eat the poor." Evilsoup, on the future
StarGazer, an experiment in RPG creation
StarGazer, an experiment in RPG creation