Star Wars Universe vs. Halo Universe

[ThePerson5]

Star Wars gets the Empire, at its height, along with all of the other smaller species' existing around the A New Hope era.

Halo gets the UNSC, Covenant, and the Forerunner, at their height.

Which side wins?

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

Halo goes down hard, it takes the Covenant an entire fleet to glass a planet, which the Empire can do with a single ship, the UNSC is a nonissue, and the Forerunners' idea of a contingincy plan is mass suicide.

[ThePerson5]

Some quotes from Halo: Cryptum about the Forerunners:

Pages 11 and 51

Twenty kilometers away, the central peak of Djamonkin
Crater rose through the blue-grey haze, its tip outlined in
ruddy gold by the last of the setting sun.

Page 51

The mining ship was an ugly thing, sullen, entirely
practical. Its belly was studded with unconcealed grap-
plers, lifters, cutters, churners. If the master of this craft so
desired, its engines could easily convert all of Djamonkin
Crater into a steaming tornado of whirling rock and ore, sift-
ing, lifting and storing whatever components it wished to
carry back.

Technological capabilities:

Page 100

From those inner secrets, the Forerunners have
prodded sufficient power to change the shape of worlds,
move stars, and even to contemplate shifting the axes of
entire galaxies. We have explored other realities, other
spaces – slipspace, denial of locale, shunspace, trick geo-
detics, natal void, the photon-only realm the Glow.

Page 143-144

The sensor images were impressive and strange. I had
never seen a quarantined steller system before. Such capa-
bilities were rarely displayed to young Builders. A planetary
system is mostly empty, even the greatest of worlds being lost

- page 144 -

in the immensity of billions of kilometers of space. Like their
former human allies, the San’Shyuum had evolved on a
water-rich world not far from a yellow star, within a temper-
ate zone that allowed only a narrow range of weather. Now,
however, ten thousand years after their defeat, the system
was surround by trillions of vigilants that constantly wove
in and out of space-time, sometimes so rapidly that they
seemed to shape a soild sphere. This sphere extended to a
distance of four hundred million kilometers from the star,
and thus did not encompass four impressive gas giants whose
orbit lay beyond that limit.

Page 145

“They retired the Deep Reverence here,” he murmured.
A magnified image appeared and was enhanced by specifi-
cations and other data. The Deep Reverence was an impres-
sive fortress-class vessel, fifty kilometers in length, its incept
data before the human-San’Shyuum war.

Firepower:

Page 197

The atmosphere below was a swirling soup of smoke and
fire. Warrior craft and automated weapon systems were
mostly to small to be visible, but I saw their effects – darting
beams of needle light, glowing arcs cutting across conti-
nents, gigantic, stamplike divots punched into the crust and
then lifted up, spun about, overturned. I had never seen
anything like this – but the Didact had.

FTL Speed:

Page 99

The display tracked our course. We were moving out-
ward along the great spiral arm that held both the Orion
complex and Erde-Tyrene – just a few tens of thousands of
light-years.

Hours at most would pass for us.

Page 134

HOURS LATER, WE emerged. The effects passed more
slowly than usual, indicating we had gone a very
great distance indeed, perhaps beyond the range of
normal particle reconciliation. There might be dilation ef-
fects when we returned.

I stood alone in the command center, looking out across
the tremendous, dim whirlpool of a galaxy, and called up a
chart to see where we were. Spirals and grids spread quickly.
At least this was our home galaxy. The ship was in a long,
obscure orbit, high above the galactic plane, tens of thou-
sands of light years from any feasible destination.

Four cruisers have sufficient firepower to shatter a Halo:

Halo: Cryptum page 314

The first fortress’s fighters moved in, surrounding one of the primed Halos and engaging its sentinels. Simultaneously, four cruisers sent white-hot beams to points around the targeted installation. Sentinels intercepted some of those beams, partially deflecting them but also absorbing and sacrificing. Other beams struck home, carving canyonlike gouges across the mottled inner surface and blowing blue-white plumes of debris and plasma from the edges. The interior spokes began to shimmer and fade. The Halo could not hold together against this onslaught. It bent inward, wobbled. Fascinated, I watched as huge sections of the ring twisted like ribbon, giving way to destructive nodes of resonance, then rippled in sinus waves—and separated with agonizing majesty.

[MrDakka]

This is a tough one if the Forerunners get involved. I'd say the GE would be more or less on the same footing as the Forerunners, although the Forerunners might have a slight leg up on the level of technology.

[R.E.G.I.S Mk. V]

The Forerunners are almost guaranteed to win this since their opposition can’t Spoiler

incorporeally hack Mendicant Bias like the pissed off Precursor in Cryptum did, which, along with other events caused by said-Precursor, allowed the Flood to actually go on the offensive against the Forerunners.

[ThePerson5]

This is a tough one if the Forerunners get involved. I'd say the GE would be more or less on the same footing as the Forerunners, although the Forerunners might have a slight leg up on the level of technology.

The Forerunners regularly build worlds. They built the Ark, a structure almost as large in diameter as Jupiter. They can create entire Halos in a matter of months. They have numbers on their side as well; even by the end of the Flood war, a fleet of 10,000 was considered 'surgical.'

[Imperial528]

The Forerunners have impressive levels of automation and industry, for sure, but they've never shown anything on the level of the Death Star. And in the end, that's whats really going to matter.

Also, four cruisers being able to easily destroy a Halo doesn't say much. Remember, the Pillar of Autumn's self-destruct managed to punch a hole through Installation 04, and then the ring's own movement did the rest of the work. Rings are very stable constructs when balanced, but once unbalanced, things can get ugly. It only gets worse as you get larger, too.

[ThePerson5]

The Forerunners have impressive levels of automation and industry, for sure, but they've never shown anything on the level of the Death Star. And in the end, that's whats really going to matter.

Also, four cruisers being able to easily destroy a Halo doesn't say much. Remember, the Pillar of Autumn's self-destruct managed to punch a hole through Installation 04, and then the ring's own movement did the rest of the work. Rings are very stable constructs when balanced, but once unbalanced, things can get ugly. It only gets worse as you get larger, too.

Blowing up stars to create supernovas was standard procedure during the Forerunner Flood war. The Galactic Empire could only do this through use of a super-secret weapon, and after it was destroyed the couldn't anymore. They've shuffled entire planets through slipspace before.

10,000 year old antique Forerunner combat armor could cause large continental deformations in battle.

They also have the Halos which, as Cryptum revealed, can be concentrated on a single planet.

[Imperial528]

Well, since I haven't read that series (And I don't know if I will in the future), I'll withdraw from this debate and concede.

[Boeing 757]

This is a tough one if the Forerunners get involved. I'd say the GE would be more or less on the same footing as the Forerunners, although the Forerunners might have a slight leg up on the level of technology.

The Forerunners regularly build worlds. They built the Ark, a structure almost as large in diameter as Jupiter. They can create entire Halos in a matter of months.

That is impressive beyond a doubt, though it should be noted that the Empire does have the needed industrial expertise and logistics available to build regularly on the planetary level, in addition to building 60% of a Death Star in a 6-months timeframe:

Kuat

'No,' Rillao said. '[worldcraft] are not mythical... The Emperor caused a few to be created. He gave them as rewards, to the cruelest and most loyal of his officers. Tokens, he called them. His "tokens" were a greater gift than a natural world.'
-The Crystal Star, p. 233

Still, keep in mind that even with the Death Star being smaller than a Ring, the firepower that it generates is well over that needed to destroy an Earth-sized planet. A single blast from the DS could cause massive damage to a Halo ring if not outright crumple the structure upon itself.

They have numbers on their side as well; even by the end of the Flood war, a fleet of 10,000 was considered 'surgical.'

So over all what are total fleet numbers for the Forerunners? Considering that forces like the Separatists are able to field and to build fleets numbering in the millions during the Clone Wars to oppose the Republic, one will need much more than 10,000 ships in order to beat the GE....

[ThePerson5]

That is impressive beyond a doubt, though it should be noted that the Empire does have the needed industrial expertise and logistics available to build regularly on the planetary level, in addition to building 60% of a Death Star in a 6-months timeframe:

Kuat

Death stars aren't nearly planet sized. Anyway, here is a size comparison of the Ark:



Not only is that a massive structure in its own right, but it's entire purpose to to build Halos, which it can do in a matter of months. That, and the Forerunners regularly package and send entire Halos through slipspace.

Still, keep in mind that even with the Death Star being smaller than a Ring, the firepower that it generates is well over that needed to destroy an Earth-sized planet. A single blast from the DS could cause massive damage to a Halo ring if not outright crumple the structure upon itself.

No doubt, but standard Forerunner vessels can destroy Halos anyway, as seen in a previous quote of mine.

So over all what are total fleet numbers for the Forerunners? Considering that forces like the Separatists are able to field and to build fleets numbering in the millions during the Clone Wars to oppose the Republic, one will need much more than 10,000 ships in order to beat the GE....

3 million member worlds. And 10,000 ships obviously isn't all that they have; a fleet of that size, as I said before, was considered 'surgical.' How many Star Destroyers does the Empire posses? 25,000? A single Forerunner fleet is almost as large as the entire amount of SDs the Empire possesses, each one being basically capable of destroying a Halo with brute force weaponry.

[Imperial528]

Okay, now, I said that I wouldn't participate. But you're being stupid.

The Pillar of Autumn can destroy a Halo via self-destruct, and UNSC firepower is many orders of magnitude below that availible to the Empire, and I don't think its unreasonable to assume that power generation is along similar lines. It's not hard to destroy a giant spinning ring, you just need to punch a hole or two in it and let the damn thing's own momentum do the work for you.

And that's exactly what happened in the quote you provided. The ships fired at the ring enough to destabilize it by virtue of punching massive holes in it. Which means that at the least, these ships have the level of firepower that the Pillar of Autumn released upon exploding. Destroying a halo ring with simple physics is a lot different than completely annihilating or vaporizing it, which is what you seem to make it out to be.

[ThePerson5]

They can also blow up stars. That's definitely a plus.

I'll just quietly link to this thread:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=168590

[ChosenOne54]

From what I know of the Forerunners (not too much), they take this with relative ease. Weaponized slipspace ruptures, ridiculous FTL speeds, and the fact that they built the Halos. I don't know what is preventing them from mailing Palpatine a Halo through slipspace and detonating it.

[doom3607]

I think I'll throw in the Dyson Sphere they managed to package up inside Slipspace in Ghosts of Onyx. And apparently they had more than one. Did the Empire ever have anything on the order of multiple Dyson Spheres hidden in- well, it would be hyperspace in their case, but still- for fallback positions? IIRC, that was the plan with the Halos- retreat to these 'shield worlds', then set them off while the Forerunners were safely hidden in Dyson Spheres in slipspace.

[Agent Sorchus]

This has been done so many times it isn't even fun anymore. There is so little evidence for forerunner anything that we can't say if they have anything even remotely close to the empire. (AND if we really wanted to be fair we would've included the Celestials from star wars as a competitor for the forerunners, which isn't fair at all since they do truly insane mega-scale engineering with black-holes.) As for just the empire, I believe that there was some old WEG era talk of artificial rings around black-holes that were instrumental in the production of hyper-matter or something like that.

[Serafina]

Building Dyson-spheres, ringworlds and such would be a luxury for the Empire anyway.
After all, the original purpose of a Dyson Sphere was to collect a stars energy. The Empire has no real need for that, they have sufficiently powerful energy production already.
Such constructs would also offer plenty of space for habitation and other things, but hyperdrive apparently makes that unnecessary - after all, you can visit plenty of planets with it. There is no apparent shortage of habitable planets in the Star Wars galaxy, plenty of them are just scarcely habitated.

Dyson-spheres and other superscale constructs are mostly useful for establishing engineering and resource limits. We can get those just fine from the Death Star (which can move under it's own power, making it more impressive for it's size) and some other things.

[ThePerson5]

This has been done so many times it isn't even fun anymore. There is so little evidence for forerunner anything that we can't say if they have anything even remotely close to the empire.

What we do know about the Forerunners makes it pretty clear that the Empire loses. Traveling tens of thousands of lightyears in a few hours (that was at a time when FTL traffic was abnormally slow also)? Check. Building a factory almost half as large in diameter as Jupiter, and making an atmosphere, artificial oceans, and planet life? Check. Said factory also produces entire Halos in a matter of months. Blowing up stars was standard procedure. Their outdated warships were 50km long, newer versions reached 100km.

Or they could just mail Palpatine a Halo and trigger it.

[Agent Sorchus]

A nuke can kill almost all of their shit. Size is irrelevant if they can't pull the firepower enough to actually fight vs any imperial vessel and fuck it if the bitchass weak UNSC ships weren't able to destroy a Halo easily. There is no indication of firepower for the Forerunners greater than the detonation of the reactor on board the Pillar of Autumn being more than enough to defeat them. Period end of story Forerunners are bitchass weak and there is no evidence for them to be better than that.

[ThePerson5]

A nuke can kill almost all of their shit. Size is irrelevant if they can't pull the firepower enough to actually fight vs any imperial vessel and fuck it if the bitchass weak UNSC ships weren't able to destroy a Halo easily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y33tLMmVPEU (0:58)

Obviously sub-kilotons!

There is no indication of firepower for the Forerunners greater than the detonation of the reactor on board the Pillar of Autumn being more than enough to defeat them. Period end of story Forerunners are bitchass weak and there is no evidence for them to be better than that.

Yes, so I'm assuming you just ignored my comments about blowing up suns, brute-force destroying entire Halos, slipspace weaponry (which can't be blocked by shields), shuffling planets through slipspace, and all that other stuff.

[Formless]

Did you just seriously fucking clone your own goddamn thread from a month ago?

Yes you fucking did.

Alright, wanker, going back to that thread how do you explain the Forunners getting buttfucked by a goddamn horde of plague zombies?

[ThePerson5]

A group of plague zombies that have their exact same technology, after imitating it, who also have the help of the Forerunner's most advanced AI, and the Gravemind, a practically omniscient being with ridiculous computing power, who also outnumber them.

[Formless]

And no industrial base, no weapons of their own, nothing that they didn't steal or get from defecting AI's. And those same zombies were seriously threatened by the UNSC, who AREN'T a galactic power. No one wants to see you type with one hand, wankmeister. Do you have any idea how a goddamn war is fought?

[ThePerson5]

Who the fuck needs an industrial base when you can basically mass-reproduce naturally? That's their basic function. They captured a large portion of the Forerunner fleet anyway. The flood that the UNSC face were far FAR weaker, being reduced to only a few small samples after the Forerunner-Flood war.

[Formless]

What do you need with... are you for real?

PLague zombies <<< Star Destroyers. Good god, are you stupid.