Star Wars Universe vs. Halo Universe

[HMS Sophia]

I count 11 cap ships, and numerous fighters. There are plenty more than that though, as we see in other media.

Link to the website?

To my calculator? Okay? http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html
It only goes up to 99,999 ktons though.

Or do you mean where I got the width? I have no clue, I closed it once I had the figure, and I can't be fucked to go find it.
If you want to dispute my width figure, show me the ring is wider, or point me at a source for the width.

[Formless]

@ ThePerson5

1) Base. Delta. Zero. Cocksucker.

2) No, they fucking aren't, as was pointed out by Norad last time you posted this horseshit. You know, that thread a month ago you posted but never apparently read?

3) Okay, fucktard, do you know how big a planet is? And what it would take to create an effective blockade or siege around one? Read an astronomy book sometime, you mouth breathing little twerp.

[Srelex]

All FTL is explicitly a cheat so you don't have to throw shittons of energy at interstellar travel. So that proves all of jack shit about their energy generation abilities.

Thankfully we know at least some general principles of Halo FTL. In this case they appear to creature what seem to amount to wormholes to 'slipspace'. Now, I'll admit that I lack a physics degree, but making a black hole at least is something we know is physically possible, so starting from there I think we can at least ballpark some guess for generation, hmm?

[Formless]

All FTL is explicitly a cheat so you don't have to throw shittons of energy at interstellar travel. So that proves all of jack shit about their energy generation abilities.

Thankfully we know at least some general principles of Halo FTL. In this case they appear to creature what seem to amount to wormholes to 'slipspace'. Now, I'll admit that I lack a physics degree, but making a black hole at least is something we know is physically possible, so starting from there I think we can at least ballpark some guess for generation, hmm?

What size of black hole? One of the hopes/fears of the LHC was that it might create tiny black holes for a period of time. Point is, there are so many unknowns where it comes to FTL that even if we have a technobabble description of how it works, its still technobabble and cannot be analyzed.

[Imperial528]

Every description of UNSC slipspace drives I've read state that they create a bunch of short-lived micro black holes to brute force their way into slipspace. They pretty much rip a hole in the normal universe to get there.

Covenant slipspace drives are described as, well "slipping" into slipspace, rather than forcing their way in. Forerunner drives are likely similar, since this method allows much greater accuracy than the UNSC method.

[Formless]

And that helps us establish their energy generation abilities... how? I mean, the very fact that doing this causes them to fall into some parallel hyperspace dimension rather than ripping the starship apart due to gravitational shear pretty clearly establishes this isn't real life physics, unlike the blowing up of perfectly spherical iron-nickle asteroids. At least there we can trust the destruction effects to obey thermodynamics.

[Imperial528]

Apparently the UNSC drives use particle accelerators to do it. Covenant drives' workings are never described in detail, I believe, so they're likely just magic black boxes with a button on them, and should be treated as such.

[Formless]

So, basically, every UNSC ship has a miniature LHC in it?

[Imperial528]

Yes, and some way to move the black holes to the correct positions.

[Formless]

(Still doesn't really help establish energy generation, BTW, not as concretely as for example liftoff thrust and the like would)

[Xess]

I'd like to mention that we've seen Forerunner weapons tech, in the form of the Sentinels on the Halos, destroyed by UNSC weapons. Weapons that are just space versions of modern weapons, that doesn't speak highly of Forerunner weapons tech.

I think I remember hearing that the Sentinels on the Halo's were designed to fight only Flood infection forms, which to me is kind of stupid. Why would you defend an important war-winning installation with weapon systems only effective against the least dangerous forms of your enemy? Even if the Forerunners couldn't fathom people being stupid enough to get themselves infected by the Flood thousands of years later surely they could imagine say the Flood using their captured starships to invade the Halos and trying to blow them up. Especially since they apparently have a type of sentinel immune to bullets ( the Onyx super-sentinels), which would presumably be able to fight off Flood combat forms, and enough industrial capacity to make an entire freaking planet out of them.

[the atom]

Doesn't look like tens of thousands to me.

It doesn't look like it because there wasn't. That 'tens of thousands' figure was a pile of wank that was pulled out of nowhere.

[R.E.G.I.S Mk. V]

Or do you mean where I got the width? I have no clue, I closed it once I had the figure, and I can't be fucked to go find it.
If you want to dispute my width figure, show me the ring is wider, or point me at a source for the width.

Not an official source, but [url=http://www.Gama%20sutra.com/view/feature/1462/halo_science_101.php?print1]this[/url] mentions 320 kilometers:

A 5,000 kilometer radius would yield a circumference of roughly 31,400 kilometers. If the Halos had a width-to-radius ratio similar to that of Niven’s Ringworld, they would be approximately 5.37 kilometers wide. They are significantly wider, though, at 320 kilometers. The Halos, then, would have a surface area of 10 million square kilometers— slightly larger than the surface area of Canada, and approximately 2 percent of the surface area of Earth. Of course, since we know that there are lakes, seas, and rivers on the Halos, the livable surface area would be fractionally less

Also, I must ask why the firepower observed in Reach retcons the multi-teraton event caused by the PoA’s reactor detonating? Remember, it’s a magitech sci-fi fusion reactor since it explodes like a H-bomb vs. a real one that would just shut down and do minimal damage to the surroundings. So, the best explanation for how UNSC reactor output is so low (Gigawatts to low Terawatts) and yet the Autumn can detonate with such force is because the UNSC uses super dense Deuterium (IIRC 160 kg per cubic meter), which the games do support to an extant given the lack of large fuel tanks anywhere on observed UNSC (and Covenant) vessels.

I’ll see if I can dig up the numbers for D-D fusion and see if super dense fuel could help explain this inconsistency.

@Formless:

On energy for Slipspace transitions, Gigawatts is mentioned in First Strike when Cortana uses the Gettysburg’s damage reactor to quickly recharge the AJ’s drive.

[Agent Sorchus]

Actually Reach provides an explanation for the huge flash from the Pillar of Autumn going off with such a bang, namely the Jump drive explosion. (Reach is more canon than H:CE due to the policy of Microsoft, and it's firepower is what we have to look to when calcing anything from the Halo universe.)

And still the FTL is not possible to use to calc up energy levels, since even if it uses a "black-hole" we know neither the mass nor the number of these micro black holes. For all we know it is a space time foam event that has energy levels less than a hand grenade.

[Formless]

Doesn't look like tens of thousands to me.

It doesn't look like it because there wasn't. That 'tens of thousands' figure was a pile of wank that was pulled out of nowhere.

It isn't my problem that you are an ignoramus with regards to SW canon. Maybe you should finish watching the rest of the scene. Or read the novelization. Or answer the point I made on this page about the logical hurdles of besieging an entire goddamn planet like Corsucant.

I do not have patience for ignorant one line spam posts.

On energy for Slipspace transitions, Gigawatts is mentioned in First Strike when Cortana uses the Gettysburg’s damage reactor to quickly recharge the AJ’s drive.

And where pray tell do they ever demonstrate that kind of energy in use? And, since I don't trust Halo wankers, please provide a quote or it didn't happen.

[the atom]

It isn't my problem that you are an ignoramus with regards to SW canon. Maybe you should finish watching the rest of the scene. Or read the novelization. Or answer the point I made on this page about the logical hurdles of besieging an entire goddamn planet like Corsucant.

I do not have patience for ignorant one line spam

At most there was a few thousand SD's at the battle of Coruscant. Don't pull bullshit out of nowhere and expect everybody to take you at your word. I've seen some SW wank on this site but this thread takes the award.

[Formless]

Go to hell, "the atom"ic scale penis. Are you going to answer any of my points, or are you going to keep appealing to your own fucking ignorance, asshole? This thread is so full of ignorant horseshit from ThePerson5 I am of half a mind to take it up with the mods and see if I can't get it sent somewhere more appropriate. Don't you push me over the edge with this trekkie style butthurt ad hominim shit.

[the atom]

Go to hell, the atomic scale penis. Are you going to answer any of my points, or are you going to keep appealing to your own fucking ignorance, asshole? This thread is so full of ignorant horseshit from ThePerson5 I am of half a mind to take it up with the mods and see if I can't get it sent somewhere more appropriate. Don't you push me over the edge with this trekkie style butthurt ad hominim shit.

Ad hominim? Are you seriously accusing me of ad hominim? Coming from one of the most vicious trolls on this thread? Yeah whatever buddy. I never made any personal attacks whatsoever. I'm calling you on the wank numbers that you pulled out of your ass. You can refute me with actual evidence or you can act butthurt. Your choice. Show some actual figures on SW fleet numbers.

[R.E.G.I.S Mk. V]

On energy for Slipspace transitions, Gigawatts is mentioned in First Strike when Cortana uses the Gettysburg’s damage reactor to quickly recharge the AJ’s drive.

And where pray tell do they ever demonstrate that kind of energy in use? And, since I don't trust Halo wankers, please provide a quote or it didn't happen.

There's Halo 3 against the Keyship, and then there's the MAC strikes used against (unshielded IIRC) Corvettes and the Spire in Reach, which as I recall were in the single digit GJ range.

And I partly misremembered the quote on Gigawatts, it wasn’t mentioned in conjunction with the Ascendant Justice’s Slipspace Drive:

Pg. 209 Halo: First Strike

The power uplinks connected. Gigawatts flowed from the
Gettysburg's reactor into the Ascendant Justice's energy grid.

[Formless]

That's it. I warned you, atom penis, but you didn't listen. I gave my evidence (PLANETARY BLOCKADES/SIEGES, SEEN IN THE MOVIES AND NOVELIZATIONS YOU FUCKING BUTTHURT ASSWIPE) and if you are just going to point blank deny that I have, all I can say is may the mods have mercy.

[Vympel]

FFS. Re the fleet numbers issue, I expect both sides to refer to explicit in relation to fleet numbers if they wish to make claims.

In any event, the Empire at its height (note: the Republic is not relevant) had 25,000 Imperial-class Star Destroyers. This is a stunningly uncontroversial fact, that everyone knows. In addition, we know that the nominal amount for a Sector Fleet in the Empire was 2,400 warships - 1,600 of them being combat ships, and 24 of them being Imperial-class Star Destroyers.

Assuming 1,000 sectors (an underestimate) gives us a nominal figure therefore of 1.6 million combat ships of all types.

This is likely a significant underestimate. Why?

The Imperial military is a massive organization, with tens of trillions of regular army soldiers, trillions of fleet crew, and a vast force of stormtroopers both cloned and conditioned. The sheer weight of numbers enables the Empire to simply overwhelm opponents in head-to-head battle.

In other words, I expect baseless accusations of "wank" and foolish idiocy of the galaxy-dominating Empire somehow being unable to cope with tens of thousands of ships to cease.

[the atom]

That's it. I warned you, atom penis, but you didn't listen. I gave my evidence (PLANETARY BLOCKADES/SIEGES, SEEN IN THE MOVIES AND NOVELIZATIONS YOU FUCKING BUTTHURT ASSWIPE) and if you are just going to point blank deny that I have, all I can say is may the mods have mercy.

I've gone through the thread several times and I can't find any relevant quotes or other information of any kind that you yourself have provided. You just sort of handwave away the flood with LOLSPACE ZOMBIES and then get your yeilds by mentioning a source you couldn't be assed to specify and fucking EYEBALLING. The sad part is that's all you've provided. Everything else is just rampant flaming and rage at the suggestion that your favorite sci-fi liscense just might lose. Hell I should probably report you myself

[R.E.G.I.S Mk. V]

Ok, to steer this thread back on track, the evidence to substantiate my earlier claim of Mendicant Bias being hacked:

Terminal One, legendary difficulty:
Is this the noble sacrifice my creators spoke of? Where is the nobility in these streets paved with greasy carbon and dun ash? [My mouth is speaking at another's behest] - that is not my voice; that is the other.

Having your mouth speak at another's behest hardly sounds like you're being swayed by the cogence of their argument.

Terminal 3, Legendary:
REPORT: SECURITY BREACH: 1/3 Heuristic pathology; [alpha site] experienced an impermanent containment failure event on [spurious-data/no_ref.[?]]. The suspect data barrier interchange anomaly was detected precisely [.489 seconds] after its appearance. The epicenter of the disturbance is the partition currently housing a [personality construct array] retrieved from Contender AI 05-032 <+> 0816.

REPORT: SECURITY BREACH: 2/3 Although [adjacent] systems reacted to the disturbance within expected parameters, a more comprehensive investigation was undertaken. A physical search revealed that there was no [corporeal] tampering at the [alpha site].

Interchange manipulation comparisons showed that all subunits are still active, if at slightly lower rates. Total containment failure elapsed time was [3.13 seconds].

REPORT: SECURITY BREACH: 3/3 In the [42 minutes, 9 seconds] since the original anomaly was discovered two more anomalies were detected in unrelated systems.

The portal management/life support control system within the boundary complex was momentarily disabled before the cause was [bottled] and disassembled. A diagnostic sweep of the central archives was initiated and subsequently halted. The origin of the request cannot be traced.

Something incorporeally accessed Mendicat Bias' personality construct array. Which is odd, as if it was just talking to him, it could have used any number of the communication channels MB must have operated on to run his ungodly huge fleet. Instead it chose to go straight to the source, and interact with his brain directly.

There’s also the Cold Storage Reports (give me a bit and I'll have the quote) in which the Flood manage to compromise, with the exception of the Quarantine Failsafe Barrier, the entirety of Delta Halo’s security systems.

[Formless]

I've gone through the thread several times and I can't find any relevant quotes or other information of any kind that you yourself have provided. You just sort of handwave away the flood with LOLSPACE ZOMBIES and then get your yeilds by mentioning a source you couldn't be assed to specify and fucking EYEBALLING. The sad part is that's all you've provided. Everything else is just rampant flaming and rage at the suggestion that your favorite sci-fi liscense just might lose. Hell I should probably report you myself

Because I wasn't making controversial claims, moron, even the part about the Halo being destroyed by a nuclear level explosion was made before I argued for it and confirmed again afterward, to say nothing about the issue of Halo: Reach. ThePerson5 wants me to believe such horseshit as that the Flood can shit out guns and bombs and starships with their magic biology, he can fucking show me the evidence. Its not my job to do his homework for him, though if you want to add anything be my guest. And to say that I haven't contributed anything to this thread beyond mockery flaming and RAEG is just bullshit. Other arguments I've made stem from simple logic pertaining to war or analysis methods: such as the "best defense is a good offense" objection to this obsession with what the Forerunners are capable of while ignoring that they have an actual fucking militarized enemy to fight here. Or the point about how you can't glean energy generation capabilities from FTL travel ability due to it being de facto magic.

There is no rule demanding I be polite in the face of wankers, whether they are wanking out to Halo, Star Trek, the Coming Transhuman Singularity... hell I've even blasted Star Wars fans for wanking out force users. Get over it you whiny fuck.

[Shroom Man 777]

Haloid shit wankers assume people are going to be impressed when they say "OMG THE FLOOD" as if it means something, but when you look at it, they're nothing more but a bunch of shit monsters that need to physically infect people to spread, or shit out more organisms, and they themselves have to steal other people's war machines because they have no capability to manufacture weaponry or war machines themselves.

Even the fucking Zerg are more impressive in that respect, because they do shit out weapons and spaceships and shit.