More Police Abuse

[Ritterin Sophia]

CANTON—
Canton police are investigating a verbal altercation between an officer and a driver who had a concealed carry permit for a gun.

Officer Daniel Harless was placed on administrative leave after the incident on June 8, according to Police Chief Dean McKimm.

By law in Ohio, drivers who are legally carrying guns, are supposed to tell officers immediately during a traffic stop if they have a gun in the car.

Twice after Officer Harless approached the driver's side of the car, William Bartlett speaks.

Once, he says "I got" but doesn't finish his thought. The next time, he says, "before I get... I've never had to do this yet" but doesn't finish that thought as the officer asks for his drivers license.

About thirty seconds later, when he's out of the car, Bartlett says "I have a concealed carry."

"You have a gun on you?," Officer Harless asks.

A couple moments later, Harless becomes angry.

"You're supposed to tell me when you have a weapon," he says.

"I was trying to," Bartlett replies.

"You're supposed to say that right off the [expletive] bat," Harless shouts.

Ohioans for a Concealed Carry say the officer was way out of line.

The advocacy group also says the state's law is a problem.

"The notification law fails everybody," says Philip Mulivor, a coordinator of the group.

Mulivor says Ohio should follow the lead of some other states and require officers to ask if there is a legal gun in the car, rather than requiring the driver to say it first.

Police Chief McKimm calls what he saw on the tape "totally unacceptable."

At one point, Officer Harless yells at Barlett, saying "[expletive] talking to me with a [expletive] gun. You want me to pull mine and stick it in your head?"

"No sir, no sir," Bartlett replies.

Chief McKimm says the conduct on the video "violates standards we demand of our officers."

He says an internal investigation is underway after which a disciplinary hearing will be held.

Thought some of you might be interested.

[cosmicalstorm]

That's a strange form of assholery, since it might have gotten the officer killed if the driver had had an issue with the police big enough to warrant a shooting.

[Mr. Coffee]

Well, while Officer Harless was a little out of line, I can perfectly understand why he got so hot about this. This Bartlett guy has no fucking business at all having a concealed carry permit if he can't even manage to use simple declarative sentences. Bartlett had a responsibility to inform the officer he has a concealed carry permit and was armed as soon as the cop started talking to him, and mumbling "I got.." several minutes AFTER the stop, putting his safety and the safety of the Officers at risk. People that fucking stupid have no goddamned business at all carrying a firearm around, and I fucking hope the Canton PD suspends that dumb motherfucker's CCW.

[Big Phil]

I agree with Coffee... this guy took nearly 5 minutes to tell the cop he had a concealed carry weapon. He's a fucking idiot, not some innocent guy being picked on by the cops.

[Agent Fisher]

I have to echo Coffee here. The officer was a bit out of a line with the extreme of his comments, but still, I don't blame him for being that angry. A traffic stop is one of the most nerve wrenching moments of being a police officer. And the idiot should have said, as soon as the officer came to the window, while his hands were firmly on the wheel. "Officer, I have a CCW permit and I have a loaded weapon in the car." Should have been the first words right out of his mouth.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Well, while Officer Harless was a little out of line, I can perfectly understand why he got so hot about this. This Bartlett guy has no fucking business at all having a concealed carry permit if he can't even manage to use simple declarative sentences. Bartlett had a responsibility to inform the officer he has a concealed carry permit and was armed as soon as the cop started talking to him, and mumbling "I got.." several minutes AFTER the stop, putting his safety and the safety of the Officers at risk. People that fucking stupid have no goddamned business at all carrying a firearm around, and I fucking hope the Canton PD suspends that dumb motherfucker's CCW.

You mean right at the beginning of the fucking video where he tried to get the officer's attention and then was told to shut up and then promptly ignored? Or when the officer decided to start searching the vehicle before addressing and removing the driver from the vehicle? Or when he waited ten fucking minutes to run the God damned license?

[Mr. Coffee]

Ok, the stop actually happens at 1min30sec in. I've watched until 5minutes into the stop and this assclown hasn't done anything other then fucking mumble at the cops. His very first action should have been to state loudly and clearly (while both hands are at two and ten on the steering wheel), "OFFICER, I HAVE A VALID CCW PERMIT AND AM LEGALLY CARRYING A LOADED FIREARM. WOULD YOU LIKE FOR ME TO SURRENDER MY FIREARM TO YOU FOR THE DURATION OF THE STOP, OFFICER?" Not mumble "i got" and general sound like he's to fucking stoned to function, but clearly spoken English using simple declarative sentences.

Oh no, he got yelled at by an officer for being an unsafe gun owner and potentially putting the cop's life in danger. Cry me a fuckin' river.

Edit: Tom, you really sure you want to do this, man? This ain't the best police abuse cause you could've chosen to champion.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Oh no, he got yelled at by an officer for being an unsafe gun owner and potentially putting the cop's life in danger. Cry me a fuckin' river.

He attempted to you lying fucknut. The officer ignored him, not his fucking fault.

Edit: Tom, you really sure you want to do this, man? This ain't the best police abuse cause you could've chosen to champion.

Go fuck yourself Coffee. The guy attempted to alert the officer, the officer ignored him for five fucking minutes and his partner conducted a search of the vehicle before even talking to him.

[Mr. Coffee]

Oh no, he got yelled at by an officer for being an unsafe gun owner and potentially putting the cop's life in danger. Cry me a fuckin' river.

He attempted to you lying fucknut. The officer ignored him, not his fucking fault.

He attempted nothing, you blind and deaf asshole. He mumbled. Which part of "SIMPLE DECLARITIVE SENTENCES" isn't fucking sinking into you head? You know what those are, right? It's where you speak the fuck up so you can be clearly understood. Now, I know you've got precisely jack and shit for experience with carrying a concealed firearms, Tom, but I'm been doing this shit almost fifteen years now. I've been in many traffic stops in that time while carrying a loaded hand gun, and every single time before the police officer can even say a fucking word to me i give the "OFFICER, I HAVE A VALID CCW PERMIT AND AM LEGALLY CARRYING A LOADED FIREARM. WOULD YOU LIKE FOR ME TO SURRENDER MY FIREARM TO YOU FOR THE DURATION OF THE STOP, OFFICER?" loud enough the officer would be able to hear me on the other side of the goddamn interstate. It helps aviod confusion, and in some places, liek Ohio for example, you're legally required to do so.

Now, I know to you mumbling in a timid mousey ass voice might seem like a valid form of communications when interacting with LEOs, and to you if a cop so much as looks at you cross ways, he's intimidating your or otherwise abusing your fragile little "rights", but would you at least pretend your balls have dropped? Speak the fuck up so the cop car's dash cam can hear you, speak fucking clearly so you can be understand by both the officer and the aforementioned dash came, and if the cop tells you to shut up finish the declaration anyway so it's a clear matter of public record that you fulfilled your duty as a responsible gun owner.


Also, Tom, ask your doctor about...

[Ritterin Sophia]

He attempted nothing, you blind and deaf asshole. He mumbled.

He did no such thing and your lying won't change it, he attempted to inform the officer. The officer ignored that. None of your typical blustering that is a substitute for a real argument is going to change that. The guy attempted to inform the officer, was ignored, and then the cop blew a gasket when he realized how much he'd fucked up in not listening. Just like you're blustering to cover up for how much of an insignificant tool you really are.

[Darmalus]

Mr. Coffee, in your experience, do cops generally ask you to surrender your firearm, or are they satisfied with your declaration?

[Mr. Coffee]

He did no such thing and your lying won't change it, he attempted to inform the officer. The officer ignored that. None of your typical blustering that is a substitute for a real argument is going to change that. The guy attempted to inform the officer, was ignored, and then the cop blew a gasket when he realized how much he'd fucked up in not listening. Just like you're blustering to cover up for how much of an insignificant tool you really are.

Watch the fucking video again, slackwit. Stop happens at 1:30. Point out the exact time that the driver speaks clearly and loudly trying to state that he has a valid CCW and is carrying a firearm. Go ahead, I'll wait. Now, I know to you mumbling like a bitch is a valid form of communications, but the rest of the world doesn't work like that. Speak loud enough hat others can hear you, speak clearly so they can understand you, and keep communications concise and to the point. Mr. Bartlett failed to do any of that, and your continued insistence that he tried is evidently false and is plain as day for all to see in the video you provided. Maybe you should actually try watching the goddamn thing yourself, Tom.

Mr. Coffee, in your experience, do cops generally ask you to surrender your firearm, or are they satisfied with your declaration?

I've had cops take me up on my offer to surrender my firearms to them (after clearly stating to them that I'm removing it from the holster, dropping the magazine, clearing the chamber,a nd locking the slide back. NEVER EVER hand anyone, even a cop, a loaded firearm). I've also had them just nod and tell me thank you for letting them know and letting me keep my piece in the holster. I depends on the cop and what regulations they might have to enforce during a stop. My state doesn't even require that I inform officers during a traffic stop, but I do it anyway because I figure it's better to be upfront and honest about that sort of thing, tends to put the officer at ease a bit and helps let them know I'm an honest and relatively law abiding citizen.

Also helps to remember to speak respectfully and be as honest as possible with any questions they have, and don't be a dick.

[Lord Zentei]

Over-efficient police officers getting nervous/abusing their power/not performing optimally is nothing new, at least the police chief recognized that mistakes were made.

I'm more concerned with the implication that this happens a lot, though it would be better to see a proper study into that than to go by anecdotes.

[cosmicalstorm]

Granted my only experience mainly comes from Cops, but isn't a standard questions as soon as you make a traffic stop something along the lines of "Do you have weapons and / or drugs in the vehicle?".

[Ritterin Sophia]

Granted my only experience mainly comes from Cops, but isn't a standard questions as soon as you make a traffic stop something along the lines of "Do you have weapons and / or drugs in the vehicle?".

Why that's just silly, that would require the officer to competently follow regulations.

[Mr. Coffee]

Granted my only experience mainly comes from Cops, but isn't a standard questions as soon as you make a traffic stop something along the lines of "Do you have weapons and / or drugs in the vehicle?".

Some states require the Officer to ask, others do not. Turns out Ohio is one of the states that requires the CCW permit holder to inform the officer instead of the officer asking first thing.

Why that's just silly, that would require the officer to competently follow regulations.

And what regulation would that be? Ohio does not require that the officer ask, and their CCW law specifically states that it is up to the permit holder to inform them, not the other way around. This shit right here completely tells me you don't have a goddamned clue what you're talking about, Tom.

[Ritterin Sophia]

And what regulation would that be? Ohio does not require that the officer ask, and their CCW law specifically states that it is up to the permit holder to inform them, not the other way around. This shit right here completely tells me you don't have a goddamned clue what you're talking about, Tom.

Except he did try. The Officer just ignored him, just like you did, it's right before the officer tells him to remain in the vehicle.

[Mr. Coffee]

Except he did try. The Officer just ignored him, just like you did, it's right before the officer tells him to remain in the vehicle.

No, he mumbled at them. I'm not sure what planet you're from where mumbling is considered an attempt to inform a police officer that you've got a valid CCW and are currently armed, but here on Earth it's still considered mumbling and not an actual attempt to inform anyone of anything more then the mumbler being a mealy mouthed dumbass. But hey, easy way you can prove me wrong. Watch the fucking video and point out the exact time that Mr. Bartlett clearly states he has a CCW and is armed. Take your time, Tom, I'll wait for you to actually watch the video that you posted.

[aerius]

So as far as I can tell, this William Bartlett character had a hooker in his car along with some guy he doesn't know, and he swears he knows the hooker from his days as a cab driver. And this is on top of his failure to inform the officer he had a CCW and a gun as soon as any of the windows in the car were rolled down or the doors were opened. So if you're an officer, and you just pulled a hooker and a some stranger who's lying about his name out of the car, and the driver is mumbling some bullshit story about how he knows the hooker from his cab driver days instead of going "OFFICER, I HAVE A VALID CCW AND I'M LEGALLY CARRYING A LOADED GUN", you likely wouldn't be in a very forgiving mood.

Yeah the officer was a bit of a dick and flipped out a bit, but if you look at it from his perspective you have a very suspicious situation going down which has a high potential of going FUBAR. The driver has to take a good load of the blame in this instance for a)not informing the officer of the CCW, and b)acting like a suspicious character with something to hide.

[Phil Skayhan]

I think some people are missing the point. If the officer had merely arrested the CCW for failure to notify, do you think this video would have attracted the attention it has? Would the officer have been suspended?

It was his actions after the CCW holder was secured that have made this a sensation. Flipped out a bit? He goes on a tirade for 10 minutes which includes the following gems:

1. Threatens to "put lumps" on the girl if he sees her again. He could have been investigated for that alone.
2. Intimates he could have shot the driver (even though the weapons was holstered) and that his partner would have helped cover it up.

Can either of these be justified?

[Mr. Coffee]

Mr. Bartlett didn't even fucking attempt to inform the officers until he mumbles "I gotta carry..." at 6 minutes, 10 seconds into the video, or damned near 5 minutes AFTER the stop had commenced. After he's interrupted, instead of continuing the statement he starts making a fairly disjointed explanation of why it is he's in a seriously shady part of town with a guy in the back seat of the vehicle and what looks like a prostitute leaning into the window. At no fucking time does he actually make a serious attempt to inform the officers that he's carrying a concealed firearm.

Like I said, I can completely understand why the officer lost his shit there. Should he have lost his composure, probably not, but did he have a perfectly valid reason for losing his composure? Fucking damn right he did.

[Phil Skayhan]

Coffee, do you believe his having a valid reason to be upset justifies the threats he made? Did he deserve to be suspended pending investigation?

[Mr. Coffee]

Coffee, do you believe his having a valid reason to be upset justifies the threats he made? Did he deserve to be suspended pending investigation?

No, I expect police officers to maintain their composure and keep a tight reign on their temper, same as I expect of anyone that carries a firearm around. Should he be investigated, yes. He should also get punished for his outburst with in whatever guidelines his department has once the investigation is completed and remain on paid suspension until such time as the investigation comes back with whatever findings it has. On the other hand, Mr. Bartlett should have his CCW suspended for the full two years for failure to inform (I'd be for barring him from ever having a CCW again, but Ohio law only provides for a maximum 2 year suspension for this), as well as face whatever other charges might have resulted from that stop.

[Big Phil]

I think some people are missing the point. If the officer had merely arrested the CCW for failure to notify, do you think this video would have attracted the attention it has? Would the officer have been suspended?

It was his actions after the CCW holder was secured that have made this a sensation. Flipped out a bit? He goes on a tirade for 10 minutes which includes the following gems:

1. Threatens to "put lumps" on the girl if he sees her again. He could have been investigated for that alone.
2. Intimates he could have shot the driver (even though the weapons was holstered) and that his partner would have helped cover it up.

Can either of these be justified?

Of course not - no one here is saying the officer didn't do anything wrong. However, the people here arguing that William Bartlett did everything right and it was only the mean old officers that prevented him from speaking are full of shit. Bartlett fucked up, and then officer fucked up big time.

[dragon]

Even if he failed to notify the cop still was in the wrong.

1. He proceded to stick his head in the back without securing the driver, big no-no right there.
2. He verbally threated the subject with greivous bodily harm to include death.

“ ‘You Fu** With Me!’: Cop Threatens to Kill Concealed Carry Gun Owner During Traffic Stop
Posted on July 21, 2011 at 1:05pm by Jonathon M. Seidl Print »Email »
A police officer’s dash cam in Canton, OH caught a disturbing exchange last month between a cop and a driver during a traffic stop. In it, the cop can be heard (and seen) berating a man for not telling the officer immediately that he had a concealed carry permit and thus a concealed weapon, even saying at one point he should have killed the gun owner. But there’s just one problem: the man tried several times but the officer cut him off.

That is a problem. In Ohio (as in many states), the law requires concealed carry gun owners to immediately inform law enforcement if they have a weapon when they are pulled over. So when the man, named William, was not allowed to do so immediately, and the cop eventually found out, that created an issue.



I could blast you in the mouth right now!” the officer says in the video after finding out about the man’s gun. “I’m so close to caving in your Godda**ed head,” he adds. “You fu** with me! You’re just a stupid human being!”

He continues: “Fu**ing talking to me with a Godd***ed gun! You want me to pull mine and stick it to your head? … I tell you what I should have done. As soon as I saw your gun I should have taken two steps back, pulled my Glock 40 and put ten bullets in your ass and let you drop.”

“And I wouldn’t have lost any sleep!” he screams.

3. Threated him with felony when failure to notify is only misdomenor

UPDATE 7/22/2011: Canton Police announced Thursday that the officer was relieved of all duties in June following an internal investigation complaint filed in this matter

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