BREAKING NEWS: Explosion at Norway Prime Ministers Office

[Dooey Jo]

It descends into the insane:

It descends into typical extreme right conspiratorial hurf durfing. Seriously, all that kind of talk about huge multicultural conspiracies and "cultural Marxism" (which basically means they think the commies are secretly trying to subvert the system by criticising extreme right texts through the aforementioned media conspiracy), the need to wake people up, etc., etc., is sickeningly rampant on the internet. You even see desires of martyrdom, to some degree, and a ton of hero-worship of people who died as "victims of multiculturalism" (ie. anyone who was at least a little bit right-wing and happened to be killed by an immigrant). The difference is that this guy actually took all that bullshit to its ultimate conclusion. Well that and his fanatical Christianity (though Christians are in no way uncommon, especially among the more moderate, in the extreme camp), and his Knights Templar ravings, which you don't see often in those circles, but obviously it is pretty usual business for Christian fundie "warriors" to call themselves crusaders; not to mention the popular image of the Freemasons "maybe, somehow" having something to do with the Templars.

[MKSheppard]

Allegedly there's a bit in there about explaining changes in habits and behavior by saying that you're playing WoW. Doing overseas travel? Visiting guildies. People ask why you're not hanging around anymore? Doing raids.

Yes, you are correct. That advice is indeed in there.

Present a ”credible project/alibi” to your friends, co-workers and family. Announce to
your closest friends, co-workers and family that you are pursuing a ”project” that can at
least partly justify your ”new pattern of activities” (isolation/travel) while in the planning
phase.

F example, tell them that you have started to play World of Warcraft or any other online
MMO game and that you wish to focus on this for the next months/year. This ”new
project” can justify isolation and people will understand somewhat why you are not
answering your phone over long periods. Tell them that you are completely hooked on
the game (raiding dungeons etc). Emphasise to them that this is a dream you have had
since you were a kid. If they stress you, insist and ask them to respect your decision. You
will be amazed on how much you can do undetected while blaming this game. If your
planning requires you to travel, say that you are visiting one of your WoW friends, or
better yet, a girl from your ”guild” (who lives in another country). No further questions
will be raised if you present these arguments.

Blaming WoW is also quite strategic due to another factor. It is usually considered ”tabu”
or even shameful in our society today to be hooked on an MMO. By revealing ”this
secret” to your close ones you are therefore (to them at least) entrusting them with your
innermost secret. Usually they will ”contribute” to keeping this secret for you which can
be very beneficial. (If people from your ”secondary” social circle ask them they will even
usually ”lie” on your behalf (giving you alibi), in order to keep your MMO project a secret.

Our favorite game; MW2 is mentioned:

I just bought Modern Warfare 2, the game. It is probably the best military simulator out
there and it’s one of the hottest games this year. I played MW1 as well but I didn’t really
like it as I’m generally more the fantasy RPG kind of person – Dragon Age Origins etc .and
not so much into first person shooters. I see MW2 more as a part of my training-simulation
than anything else. I’ve still learned to love it though and especially the multiplayer part is
amazing. You can more or less completely simulate actual operations.

[Raj Ahten]

Do we have any information about what the alleged shooter did for money? Was he actually a farmer or did he inherit his wealth? I ask because all the crap he put together wasn't cheap (as Shep pointed out in the manifesto thread the lunatic himself claims to have spent over 100,000 euros on this) and if this guy had an actual day job that's a bit more disturbing.

[Dartzap]

Do we have any information about what the alleged shooter did for money? Was he actually a farmer or did he inherit his wealth? I ask because all the crap he put together wasn't cheap (as Shep pointed out in the manifesto thread the lunatic himself claims to have spent over 100,000 euros on this) and if this guy had an actual day job that's a bit more disturbing.

Some of it seems to have come from his 'farm' - he seems to have got grants for it from the government.

[Pelranius]

He seems to have come from a reasonably affluent background (grew up in a nice part of Oslo). Perhaps he inherited the money?

[Lord Pounder]

The IRA and UVF were/are Christian terrorists in Northern Ireland, grotesquely mirroring the Shia and Sunni terrorist groups in Iraq after the collapse of Baathism.

Wrong. The IRA and UVF are organised criminals who engage in all the fun organised crime has to offer with the occasional recreational riot every July. They simply cover up their scum baggary bu saying they do it for Ulster or Ireland.

While most IRA members are Catholic and most UVF members Protestant religion plays a minor part in their motivations. For example the UDA, the largest paramilitary group in Northern Ireland back in the 70's being addressed themselves as Unionist/Loyalist their goal was actually an Independent Ulster, free from Irish and British interference.

[Aharon]

@source of money
obviously not neccessarily reliable, but according to himself, he had an enterprise involved in outsourcing software development:

2005-2007Managing director of E-Commerce Group AS (part investment company – 50%, part sales/
outsourcing company – 50%). I converted ABB ENK to a corporation (AS). Total of 7 employees: 3 in Norway, 1
in Russia, 1 in Indonesia, 1 in Romania, 1 in the US. Distribution of outsourcing services to foreign companies,
sold software/programming solutions. Worked part time with day trading (stocks/options/currency/
commodities). This was a front (milking cow) with the purpose of financing resistance/liberation related military
operations. The company was successful although most of the funds were channelled through a Caribbean
subsidiary (with base in Antigua, a location where European countries do not have access): Brentwood
Solutions Limited with bank accounts in other Caribbean nations and Eastern Europe. E-Commerce Group was
terminated in 2007 while most of the funds were channelled in an “unorthodox manner” to Norway available to
the coming intellectual and subsequent operations phase.

[Zixinus]

What would be genuinely frightening if this guy really had several associates working with him.
It is quite scary how genuinely long-working and planning this guy seems to be about this. He is getting and saving money for his delusional GI Joe team he wants to assemble around him.

[Lord Zentei]

I understand that he only used 500 kg of explosives in that bomb, and that the police found three tonnes at his farm. Have they found out what happened to the remaining 2.5 tonnes, or am I getting the numbers wrong?

[cosmicalstorm]

At this point I would not be surprised if a tripwire or time-delayed bomb went off somewhere considering how much time he spent thinking about this. Truly frightening. I remember that Stuart once quipped about all the possible ways to create mayhem if terrorists used their brains a bit.

[Lord Zentei]

If you feel like raging a bit more, here's an excerpt from Michael Savage's rant on the bombings, made before the perpetrator's identity was made public.

Link

No text since this is an audio link.

[Soldier of Entropy]

If you feel like raging a bit more, here's an excerpt from Michael Savage's rant on the bombings, made before the perpetrator's identity was made public.

Link

No text since this is an audio link.

The irony of the fact that he's espousing such strikingly similar views as the terrorist's is frankly, quite disturbing.

[Lord Zentei]

Oh, indeed. And what are these kinds of people doing now that it turns out that an ultra-nationalist was behind the deed? Well, of course they're blaming other people.

More rage material:

+http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t818967/

Nope, no self-critique at all.

[Big Orange]

The IRA and UVF were/are Christian terrorists in Northern Ireland, grotesquely mirroring the Shia and Sunni terrorist groups in Iraq after the collapse of Baathism.

Wrong. The IRA and UVF are organised criminals who engage in all the fun organised crime has to offer with the occasional recreational riot every July. They simply cover up their scum baggary bu saying they do it for Ulster or Ireland.

While most IRA members are Catholic and most UVF members Protestant religion plays a minor part in their motivations. For example the UDA, the largest paramilitary group in Northern Ireland back in the 70's being addressed themselves as Unionist/Loyalist their goal was actually an Independent Ulster, free from Irish and British interference.

Oh, of course the IRA and UVF are really heavily armed criminal thugs running a racket on their turf while sproating out pretentious rhetoric, but they're "Christian" in that they had roots in Christian sect scrabbling from the 1600s and part of the Christian sphere. The Sunni and Shia paramilitary groups being not so disimilar sticks, when they manage their own turf in Iraq and have many interests other than just Islam. In fact they became enemies of the "pure" Islamic terrorists from Al Qaeda, so much so they even fought Al Qaeda alongside Western troops who were allies of convenience.

Now the events of Utoya Island are so severe there's going to be conspiracy theories surrounding this atrocity for decades to come and it's clear he was not acting alone (that Oslo bomb set off as a distraction two dozen miles away seems to be too much precision and logistics for one guy), some people felt his surreal manifesto was too cut 'n paste, and inevitably the question is going to be who was really backing him up. On another forum a poster questioned why the Norwegian authorities were able to know what kind of bomb was used so quickly, when he said explosive forensics usually took a lot longer.

Anyway here's an article on European law enforcement tracking down accomplices:

Anders Behring Breivik may be part of bigger anti-Islamic movement

Scotland Yard is probing whether Anders Behring Breivik is part of a larger Right-wing network that is preparing to carry out similar attacks, the U.K's Telegraph reported.

The law enforcement agency is currently searching for possible British accomplices in the twin terror attacks that rocked Norway and shocked the world, the newspaper reports.

The Nordic monster, accused of killing 97 people in Oslo, bragged he was one 80 "solo martyr cells" throughout Western Europe that want to fight against governments tolerant of Islam, according to the report.

The Islamophopic farmer used hollow-point bullets to inflict maximum damage and now wants to tell the world why, officials said Sunday.

Anders Behring Breivik, expected to be arraigned Monday on terrorism charges, told his attorney that while his actions were "atrocious" they were "necessary."

Defense attorney Geir Lippestad said Breivik, who spent two years penning a 1,500-page hate-filled manifesto aimed at Muslims and immigrants, has requested an open court hearing. "He wants to explain himself," Lippestad said.

Breivik, 32, is accused of killing seven people by unleashing a fertilizer bomb Friday in front of a downtown Oslo government building, then following it up with a shooting spree at a youth camp on a nearby island.

The death toll from the bloodbath on Utoya Island rose to 86 yesterday, but officials said several campers were still missing. At least 90 victims were wounded.

Breivik was armed with a pistol and an assault weapon when he prowled the island in a police uniform. He fired at hundreds of innocent victims attending the camp, organized by the liberal Norwegian Labor Party.

When taken into custody, Breivik was armed with a "significant amount of ammunition," said Oslo Senior Police Officer Johan Fredriksen.

Doctors said the victims were shot with hollow-point, or dum-dum bullets, which are banned in several U.S. states.

"These bullets more or less exploded inside the body," Dr. Colin Pool of Ringriket Hospital in Oslo said.

Breivik's father, Jens Breivik - a retired Norwegian diplomat and Labor Party supporter who has been estranged from his son for 16 years - condemned the massacre.

"I view this atrocity with absolute horror," he said.

Link

[Elfdart]

It just occurred to me that the Norway Massacre is proportionally almost twice as bad as the September 11 attacks.

[Elfdart]

Kinda pissing me off that the news outlets here keep calling it as a "massacre" and not what it is: A terrorist attack. But I guess only Muslims launch terrorists attacks.

Considering the death count is 90+ and how he literally slaughtered the people on the island, the term massacre is actually quite appropiate.

9/11 killed almost 3000, we don't call that a "massacre" we call it what it is, a terrorist attack. I can guaran-fucking-tee you that if this guys name was Mohammed it would be called what it is.

Maybe it's just me, but I consider massacre or mass murder to be better terms to describe what happened in Norway than terrorist which, when you consider how the word is most often used, is really just a euphemism for "uppity dark-skinned folk".

[Gil Hamilton]

It seemed that a lot of the dialogue as this was breaking that I was hearing was:

"This bombing and this attack was clearly the work of Islamofascist groups with beef with Norway, evil Muslim terrorists who would murder innocent people, even children! to meet their ends. This should be a clear wake-up call to everyone that Leftist multiculturalism has FAILED in Europe. The killers ideology..."

*it comes down the pipe that the killer is a conservative Christian Nationalist who hates Muslims, the political Left, and multiculturalism and looks like freakin' Thor*

"...uh, has 100% nothing to do with these heinous attacks, which are obviously the work of a lone wolf madman, who merely used politics as a veneer for his raving lunacy. In fact, it would be disrespectful for the poor dead children in Norway to politicize this at all by paying any head to the killer's beliefs or motivations WHAT SO EVER."

[Shroom Man 777]

At least none of them have blubbered about it being some kind of liberal false-flag bullshit to discredit the right like what some Hypocritical Psycho Conservative Assholes said of the Arizona shootings.

[Gandalf]

At least none of them have blubbered about it being some kind of liberal false-flag bullshit to discredit the right like what some Hypocritical Psycho Conservative Assholes said of the Arizona shootings.

Yeah, the detailed manifesto really took the wind out of the sails of the right wing whinosphere. They were ready to do an "I was right" dance because they thought that they were right about Muslims all along. Turns out he's a Christian. Oops.

I think the "not a true Christian" defence is imminent.

[Metahive]

I think the "not a true Christian" defence is imminent.

They're already there on other web forums like spiegel.de. "The Bible says Thou Shalt Not Kill and he killed, therefore he isn't a Christian" (paraphrased) and similar BS. The right-wing apologists are out in full force. The most insidious thing I read is complaining that there's too much coverage about the issue, that it just gives the perpetrator an audience, that all right-wingers are unfairly tarred with the same brush and that we all should best ignore him to be "respectful to the victims". That from the same people who a few weeks ago, when the Taliban uploaded a video of them executing Pakistani police decided that Islam is evil and that all Muslims need to be deported/killed and that they would support any action to avert the impending "islamicization" of Europe.

[Eleas]

It just occurred to me that the Norway Massacre is proportionally almost twice as bad as the September 11 attacks.

Yeah. Worse, it was done in a way that you really can't prevent. He plainly spent a lot of time calmly considering the logistics.

Though I'm not so sure we should take Breivik's rantings as absolute fact. Sure, he may have been planning this for a decade, a lone mastermind working for the Great Cause, unseen and undetected. Or he might simply have been a racist christian bigot who eventually decided to devote his money and knowledge to action, and who thus retconned his past as one great Batman training session.

Time will tell which one of these are correct.

[Edi]

There is apparently a Polish connection:Article in Polish

Google translation, but I'd rather hear from our Polish members (PeZook et al) on what it says. The Google translation does seem to be more legible than many I've read, but for obvious reasons I'm loath to trust it without the requisite amount of salt.

[Simon_Jester]

I think the "not a true Christian" defence is imminent.

They're already there on other web forums like spiegel.de. "The Bible says Thou Shalt Not Kill and he killed, therefore he isn't a Christian" (paraphrased) and similar BS. The right-wing apologists are out in full force. The most insidious thing I read is complaining that there's too much coverage about the issue, that it just gives the perpetrator an audience, that all right-wingers are unfairly tarred with the same brush and that we all should best ignore him to be "respectful to the victims". That from the same people who a few weeks ago, when the Taliban uploaded a video of them executing Pakistani police decided that Islam is evil and that all Muslims need to be deported/killed and that they would support any action to avert the impending "islamicization" of Europe.

One would expect the "no true Christian" defense for the same reasons that the vast majority of Muslims are not evil terrorist madmen: normal people of any religion will see and reject such actions, and do not believe that their religious beliefs could permit such a terrible thing.

[Metahive]

One would expect the "no true Christian" defense for the same reasons that the vast majority of Muslims are not evil terrorist madmen: normal people of any religion will see and reject such actions, and do not believe that their religious beliefs could permit such a terrible thing.

Totally besides the point which is that there's no such thing as a "true Christian" or "true Muslim" and therefore the invocation of such nought but a feeble attempt to avoid having to reflect more about the perpetrator of atrocities and his potential motivations by making him into an "other". It's just so much easier to claim that he was a "counterfeit believer" as well as insane and pretend that everything he did happened in a complete vacuum.

No, Breivik is a christian and OBL was a muslim, their interpretation of their faiths might be different from most other adherents but that's still not sufficient reason to just "disown" them and declare them complete anomalies, that's just laziness that won't help trying to prevent the occurence of such things in the future.

[Shroom Man 777]

For a person talking about vacuum and shit like that, you seem to be ascribing their actions entirely to religion and nothing else. So, I guess, this means if everyone in the Middle East was an atheist or something, they would never ever ever do any violent acts of terrorism directed against what they would perceive, irregardless of religion, as socioeconomic inequality and geopolitical exploitation by corrupt foreign powers for bloodoil? If the Irish were not Catholic, they would never have taken up arms or fought against the British, and the Troubles would've never happened?

You're being a retard. And ascribing the blame solely on religion is also laziness that won't help trying to prevent the occurrence of such things in the future. Turns out no matter what their religulons are, there are certain conditions in the environment that will ferment the growth of extremism and violence.

Maybe we can look at how religion inspired Tupac to violence, or how faith in God led to all the deaths in the Cultural Revolution. Were the Tamil Tigers motivated by religulonisms? Are those communoids in Asia and Latin America also fundies?

Turns out there can be more than causative factor in complicated stuff like this, who knew.