Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

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mr friendly guy
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Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by mr friendly guy »

linky
Little white lies: Agnok Lueth adopts 'Daniel McClean' on his CV to try to get a fair go

A SUDANESE man who has applied unsuccessfully for more than 1000 jobs has resorted to using a fake Anglo name on his resume in a desperate attempt to get work.

Former refugee Agnok Lueth, 23, who fled war-torn Sudan for Melbourne in 2004, created the resume alias "Daniel McClean" because he believed Australian employers were unwilling to give him a fair go under his real name.

Mr Lueth sent out hundreds of resumes for jobs he was qualified for, but only received callbacks on applications with the fake names.

Of the six applications with the fake name, he got five callbacks.

The Swinburne University biomedicine and commerce double degree student can speak three languages, has a favourable work history and volunteered for three years for an Australian aid organisation.

Despite meeting the job criteria for positions as a waiter, shop assistant, call centre worker and bank teller, Mr Lueth told mX he felt overlooked by employers.

"I did a test to see if it was an experience problem or something more," he said.

"I sent six resumes with my qualifications but used a different name, and I was surprised at how quickly I heard back from five of the companies for interview requests."

Mr Lueth could not say why the five calls did not lead to a job interview.

He said one employer only asked him two questions.

The Australian Human Rights Commission's Graeme Innes said there was a growing trend of immigrants adopting western names in the hope it would help them get hired.

"Unfortunately, there are elements of racism in our community and there are definitely people in Australia who make employment decisions on a racist bias," he said.

"We like to call ourselves a tolerant society, but this happens a lot more often than we think."

Since university timetable clashes forced Mr Lueth into the job hunt in 2009, he has relied on Centrelink payments and a Smith Family scholarship.

"Sometimes I just feel like giving up," he said.

"The Sudanese community is thankful for all the opportunities we're given in Australia, but we have something to make this nation defined by the strength of its diversity."

Smith Family Learning for Life team leader Anne Marmion said Lueth's efforts to secure a job had been "massive".

"When a young person has to change their name because they're discriminated against, it's an indication of bias and prejudice in our society and a fear of those who are different," she said.
Now I know we have posted other articles here pretty much showing the same thing in various countries. I think what worsens the problem is the denial of people who have this view of Australia as soooo awesome that we can't be racist. You know, like how Victorian police slammed Indian media for calling them racists then a few weeks later admitted they were racist to Africans. Here is a sample of the comments from the article and you can see the problem.
Sorry but racism has nothing to do with it. Besides, even if the assumed name gets him the interview, he is unable to win the confidence of the employer. There is a Sudanese-Australian man who lives near me and does facilities management; managing lifts, HVAC systems, repairs, cleaning contracts and logistics with class. He is bright, speaks excellent English and has found work just fine. Its about his attitude and willingness to pitch in and work with a smile and enthusiasm; the Aussie way. There is no entitlement by having a Uni degree. The lucky country is a double-edged sword: with no entitlement comes a chance for everyone, but nobody is guaranteed anything.
Totally missing the point that he didn't even get to the interview stage until he used an Anglo sounding name. The fact that some immigrants get jobs despite having a non Anglo sounding name does not refute the point that it appears some amount of employers descriminate on name.
I wouldnt straight out claim it as racism. Myself and a few friends when out of work have been knocked back probably hundreds of times total. Pretty much everybody I know who has been turned down many many times have all been white with "Anglo" names. So why claim racism when someone of a different color gets the same treatment that probably half of white Aussies get when applying for jobs.
Because he got job interviews after changing to an Anglo sounding name. :roll: Is this guy stupid or just dishonest.
ah im sick of being called racist. perhaps employers dont want to deal with language issues. pulling the racist card occurs to often and easily in this country
I find this amusing when he mentions the language issues when he ignores capitals and punctuation. :D Of course since the person in the article speaks English ok there shouldn't be a language issue. But you see, racist apologists use red herrings all the time.
It's not about being racist, but about common ground. Employers want team work, and if they see applicants with very foreign-sounding names, they suspect they could bring in some cultural baggage and language difficulties. Adaption is a two-way street. He should legally change is name in an effort to accommodate to Australian cultural expectations. Besides, the so-called skills-shortages that is used to lure economic immigrants here is a scam to employ cheap and willing labour.
I love how they say its not racist and then use racist generalisations in the next statement. :roll: What, immigrants can't learn English. Perish the thought.
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by bobalot »

I can attest to this. When my family arrived in Australia nearly 20 years ago, my father found it incredibly difficult to get a job despite speaking English well and having a good resume.

The moment he Anglicized his name, he immediately got far more job interviews and within a few weeks got a job. This was after almost a year of searching for work.
Last edited by bobalot on 2011-07-30 08:53pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by mr friendly guy »

Fortunately for me, I work in public health sector and there seems to be people from all different parts of the world working. Its awesome, so I guess there doesn't seem to be discrimination here.

In any event my name is relatively easy to spell and say (sort of) even if you get transliteration problems with the Chinese sounds into English sounds.
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

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mr friendly guy wrote:Fortunately for me, I work in public health sector and there seems to be people from all different parts of the world working. Its awesome, so I guess there doesn't seem to be discrimination here.

In any event my name is relatively easy to spell and say (sort of) even if you get transliteration problems with the Chinese sounds into English sounds.
Hiring without discrimination is something the public sector is actually quite good at (having seen the process 1st hand). I believe the major problem with hiring discrimination is with smaller private businesses where the prejudices of their owners come into play.
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by Starglider »

bobalot wrote:I believe the major problem with hiring discrimination is with smaller private businesses where the prejudices of their owners come into play.
The finance industry has a lot of issues, but one thing I do like about it is that it will hire absolutely anyone who shows talent, nationality is irrelevant. Well over half of the people I have worked with in London recently - traders, quants, managers, developers, support people - are non-causasian and over a third are not UK nationals. Although to be fair there is a bit of cognitive disonnance about being proud of that and simultaneously concerned about the UK unemployment rate. The gender ratio on the other hand is not doing so well; definitely under 10% female in trading, IT and management (maybe a bit higher in back office and other support).
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by Spyder »

China and various Asian countries figured this out years ago. I've worked with a number of people that picked their names out of a catalogue before migrating to NZ.
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by Stark »

This is even prevalent in industrial roles where things like safety records and experience are way more important than anything else. A history of excellent work, safety and qualified on all relevant equipment, but named something FOREIGN? Too bad, look elsewhere.

And yeah, most Asian people having fake Euro-sounding names is a giant lol. The Australian government actually refuses to acknowledge the existence of my partner under her actual name, because it looks like her middle name right? :lol:
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by Winston Blake »

I'd like to apologise to everyone who had to read those inane comments. Not all Australians are like that, but unfortunately many are. I'd also like to point out something in this comment (which is annoying in so many ways I won't even start):
Its about his attitude and willingness to pitch in and work with a smile and enthusiasm; the Aussie way. There is no entitlement by having a Uni degree. The lucky country is a double-edged sword: with no entitlement comes a chance for everyone, but nobody is guaranteed anything.
Wikipedia: Lucky country wrote:The title of Horne's The Lucky Country comes from the opening words of the book's last chapter:
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Horne's statement was made ironically, as an indictment of 1960s Australia. His intent was to comment that, while other industrialised nations created wealth using "clever" means such as technology and other innovations, Australia did not. Rather, Australia's economic prosperity was largely derived from its rich natural resources. Horne observed that Australia "showed less enterprise than almost any other prosperous industrial society."

In the decades following his book's publication, Horne became critical of the "lucky country" phrase being used as a term of endearment for Australia. He commented, "I have had to sit through the most appalling rubbish as successive generations misapplied this phrase."
Also, I can't wait until I'm in a position to hire people, in the future. With skilled, qualified immigrants being rejected elsewhere, I could snap them up easily.
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by JointStrikeFighter »

Even at work when I wear a badge with my full form name (zakarie) customers are far less friendly than when i wear a badge saying "zak"
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by Feil »

This is pretty horrifying if it's a statistically significant trend. Is anyone aware of actual conclusive studies done on this topic? (Particularly for the United States, since I happen to be trying to find a job here...)

I wonder if this applies to other white-sounding but not Anglicized names (say, Jean-luc Picard as opposed to James T. Kirk), and female names as opposed to male ones?
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by Teebs »

Feil wrote:This is pretty horrifying if it's a statistically significant trend. Is anyone aware of actual conclusive studies done on this topic? (Particularly for the United States, since I happen to be trying to find a job here...)

I wonder if this applies to other white-sounding but not Anglicized names (say, Jean-luc Picard as opposed to James T. Kirk), and female names as opposed to male ones?
There were definitely some posted in the job rant thread a while ago because I asked for them :P I can't remember if any were for the US specifically though.

It would be interesting to do a study into whether there was a split in behaviour between big and small businesses. From my own experience of graduate level recruitment in the financial sector, minorities seem to be over-represented while they certainly aren't at the top level (same goes for women as a matter of fact). The differential between bosses and graduates can be at least partly explained by the bosses generally starting out 20+ years ago when things were worse, but not totally (in my opinion).

My guess might be that very formal recruitment processes going through HR teams and such are likely to be pretty fair. However, once you get into the more personal recruitment processes involved in choosing top people you end up with more discrimination. If that were the case you'd expect to see much less discrimination in hiring practices for large businesses than small ones.
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

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Feil wrote:This is pretty horrifying if it's a statistically significant trend. Is anyone aware of actual conclusive studies done on this topic? (Particularly for the United States, since I happen to be trying to find a job here...)
I suppose I need only point out that for a number of years the current PotUS went by "Barry" instead of Barack to illustrate this is also an issue in the US.
I wonder if this applies to other white-sounding but not Anglicized names (say, Jean-luc Picard as opposed to James T. Kirk), and female names as opposed to male ones?
Well, yes, this is why Volodymyr Palahniuk used the name "Jack Palance" professionally. That's why Moses, Jerome, and Samuel Horwitz went by the last name "Howard" when making Three Stooges shorts, and Larry shortened his last name from "Feinberg" to "Fine". It wasn't until the late 60's at the earliest that actors with "foreign" or very ethnic sounding names started routinely keeping them unaltered. And that's just from one industry. Name changes were (and still are) common in the US, for all sorts of reasons. My grandfather's (and by extension, my mother's entire family's) surname went from "Rausch" to "Roach" during WWI due to anti-German sentiment (how they dealt with Grandpa's accent I have no idea - he was fourteen when he came to the US, he never lost it entirely). There are still people in the US who won't hire Jews, Poles, various stripes of Asians, "Mexicans" (meaning any Spanish sounding surname, whether the person is from Central/South America, Europe, or the Philippines), or anything that just strikes them as "weird". Apparently around here my first name is considered "black" by many people, as occasionally I have had someone express surprise when they meet me face-to-face that I am, in fact, white. (Maybe it's because my first name greatly resembles that of a former US Senator from Illinois known, among things, for being the first black woman in the US Senate).

Yes, name bias is alive and well in the US. Of course, sometimes having an usual name might get your foot in the door, or make you memorable in a positive way (I know an opera singer who changed his name from "Lawrence" to "Lorenzo" and suddenly started getting more gigs), but it's more likely to hurt than help. It's less of a handicap than it used to be, but if someone changed their name to improve their job prospects I would certainly understand their motivation.
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by Teebs »

Feil wrote:I wonder if this applies to other white-sounding but not Anglicized names (say, Jean-luc Picard as opposed to James T. Kirk), and female names as opposed to male ones?
Amusingly enough I have almost exactly that (obviously foreign [French] name), it doesn't seem to have hurt me, but we all know how much anecdotal evidence is worth.
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

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We were close friends with an Armenian family in central California. When they came to the US during the Armenian genocide (a lot of Armenians came to central CA) they changed their name from Aslanian to Lyons so that not only would they not be Armenian, they'd be FRENCH (and therefore super-classy). Name changing is still very prominent in the US and I even had lots of friend at University who were East-Asian who almost exclusively went by their "American name".
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by Master of Cards »

Kodiak wrote:We were close friends with an Armenian family in central California. When they came to the US during the Armenian genocide (a lot of Armenians came to central CA) they changed their name from Aslanian to Lyons so that not only would they not be Armenian, they'd be FRENCH (and therefore super-classy). Name changing is still very prominent in the US and I even had lots of friend at University who were East-Asian who almost exclusively went by their "American name".
A lot is just due to people being pissy if you mispronounce their name. I had a few friends with Chinese names that had an American name because most people couldn't say their actual name and were sick of people totally butchering it. Most went by both so you just used the one you could say correctly.
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by mr friendly guy »

I believe among US celebrities, Jennifer Aniston changed her name from Anistonopolis ? sp, and Elizabeth Perkin's family had previously anglicized their name. Of course one of the comments on the article I linked to had some dipshit saying that he won't hire the guy because he used a fake name. Like he was going to hire the guy in the first place.
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

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mr friendly guy wrote:I believe among US celebrities, Jennifer Aniston changed her name from Anistonopolis ?
Anastasakis, actually. Changed by her father when he emigrated to the US. Lots of Greek emigrants have changed their names. I have family in Australia, Belgium and the US, and they've all changed their last names to sound more like the locals. All different to each other, of course. :)
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by Dartzap »

Same happens here. We recently employed a Chilean, who had a long, unpronounceable (to us) name, which she turned into Barbara. Shares enough sounds to be recognised as her original name as well! :)
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Re: Want a job interview, Anglicize your name

Post by salm »

We have the same problem in Germany. Studies revealed that people with a foreign sounding name with the same qualifications and skills are 14% less likely to get a positive answer in a job interview even if they have German citizenship and are native German speakers. In smaller companies it´s even worse.

Not really surprising. Germany is a deeply racist country. Germans love to tell everybody and their horse that Germany isn´t racist and actually very tolerant but the truth is that a lot of people are racists and xenophobes and simply deny it. A lot of them probably don´t even realize it. This phenomenom of self denied racism is esspecially prevelant among university students and people with academical degrees in my experience.
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