Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborhood"

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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

Post by Faqa »

Reviving this thread for an update on Israel's slide into.... well, Iran.

We now seek to drop Arabic as an official language and make the Talmud a base for Israeli law
Forty lawmakers from both the coalition and opposition Wednesday submitted a proposal to the Knesset for a new Basic Law that would change the accepted definition of Israel as a "Jewish and democratic state."

The bill, initiated by MKs Avi Dichter (Kadima ), Zeev Elkin (Likud ) and David Rotem (Yisrael Beiteinu ), and supported by 20 of the 28 Kadima MKs, would make democratic rule subservient to the state's definition as "the national home for the Jewish people."

The legislation, a private member's bill, won support from Labor, Atzamaut, Yisrael Beiteinu and National Union lawmakers.

Sources at the Knesset say the law currently has broad support, and they believe it will be passed during the Knesset's winter session.

According to Elkin, the law is intended to give the courts reasoning that supports "the state as the Jewish nation state in ruling in situations in which the Jewish character of the state clashes with its democratic character."

Elkin said: "The courts deal with this issue quite a lot, such as with the Law of Return as a discriminatory law."

The bill redefines basic consensus regarding the character of the state. For example, it also proposes that Hebrew would be the only official language in Israel, as opposed to the present situation - based on current mandatory law, Arabic and English are also recognized as official languages.

The bill accords Arabic "special status," and states that Arabic speakers "have the right to linguistic access to the services of the state, as determined by law."

Jewish inspiration

Another clause states that Jewish law will be a source of inspiration to the legislature and the courts.

This would mean that MKs would be asked to legislate in the spirit of Jewish law, and courts to adjudicate by it in cases where no other express law exists. In the language of the bill: "If the court sees a legal question requiring a ruling, and finds no solution in legislation, custom or clear analogy, it will rule in light of the principles of freedom, justice, integrity and peace in Jewish heritage."

The bill also calls on the state to "act to ingather the exiles of Israel and [further] Jewish settlement within it, and allocate resources to this end."

As for other ethnic groups in Israel, according to the bill: "The state is permitted to allow a community, including people of another faith or nation, to maintain a separate community."

Elkin says he is not concerned over the implications of the bill for the image of Israel internationally. "If we were talking about the world in which the United Nations equates Zionism with racism, there might be a problem. But today the world is ready to accept this," he said.

As opposed to other Basic Laws, this one can only be changed by passing another Basic Law in its stead.

The bill was formulated on the initiative of, and jointly with, the Institute for Zionist Strategies, a conservative think tank.

Elkin and Rotem have supported a number of controversial pieces of legislation presented during the Knesset summer session. They include the successfully-passed Boycott Law, which calls for economic sanctions on people who boycott West Bank settlements; and laws restricting the activities of associations that oppose the existence of Israel and requiring political groups to reveal sources of funding they received from foreign countries.

In response, Kadima said that the proposed law is a private member's bill submitted by MK Avi Dichter and not by a faction. Like every other bill, this one will also be discussed by the faction, which will then decide its position on it.
ONE THIRD OF OUR NATIONAL REPRESENTATION ARE PREPARED TO DISENFRANCHISE THE ISRAELI-ARAB COMMUNITY. No, seriously. AND introduce religious law as a basis for legal precedent.

..........

Yeah, I'm speechless here. Again.
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

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Jesus Christ.
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

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News Source wrote: "The state is permitted to allow a community, including people of another faith or nation, to maintain a separate community."
Let me guess, "Separate but equal"?
The bill accords Arabic "special status," and states that Arabic speakers "have the right to linguistic access to the services of the state, as determined by law."
After all, the worker-caste peons need to know which public faucets they're allowed to drink from and where the back half of the bus starts.
The bill also calls on the state to "act to ingather the exiles of Israel and [further] Jewish settlement within it, and allocate resources to this end."
O goody, more state-sponsored squatting in foreign territory!
Another clause states that Jewish law will be a source of inspiration to the legislature and the courts.
I'm already brimming with anticipation which sort of people they'll dub "Amalekites" and treat in accordance to jewish law (that'd be "Kill 'em all").
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

Post by ComradeClaus »

Metahive wrote:
Another clause states that Jewish law will be a source of inspiration to the legislature and the courts.
I'm already brimming with anticipation which sort of people they'll dub "Amalekites" and treat in accordance to jewish law (that'd be "Kill 'em all").
I'd long feared that this would come to pass. They'll probably give it a catchy name like "Trumpets of Jericho"

One hears religious fanatics in America rant about the contents of the Koran all the time, but the stuff in the Old Testament is far more chilling. & If Israel is enacting it's version of "Sharia" law, God help us all. :shock: Of course the Right won't say a thing about it. :banghead:

Didn't the section with Joshua refer to the Israelites clearing EVERYONE from the land of Canaan? If they interpret that literally... :!:
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

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What would be the chances of the Israeli Supreme Court being able to overturn Kadima's latest pandering act?
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

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I had a fairly positive view of Israel when I started learning about the conflict around 1999. But for every year I'm losing respect for them. These laws and this political direction in general seems like it might itself defeat Israel in the long run; by gradually forcing smart people and intellectuals out of the country. I know it's been pointed out a thousand times in the past, but this is exactly the kind of stuff that the Nazi Germans were up to in the 1930's. Irony.
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

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ComradeClaus wrote:Israel is enacting it's version of "Sharia" law
Funny thing about Sharia: It is not actually found in or from the Quran. It is from the Sunnah. This is why many Muslims follow the Quran, but do not follow Sharia. Rabbinical law, however, can not be separated from the Hebrew Bible or the Torah as Leviticus is the third of the five founding books of both works.
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

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cosmicalstorm wrote:I had a fairly positive view of Israel when I started learning about the conflict around 1999. But for every year I'm losing respect for them. These laws and this political direction in general seems like it might itself defeat Israel in the long run; by gradually forcing smart people and intellectuals out of the country. I know it's been pointed out a thousand times in the past, but this is exactly the kind of stuff that the Nazi Germans were up to in the 1930's. Irony.
To be fair, pretty much every society sliding into totalitarianism/authoritarianism does the whole anti intellectual and thought police program, so it's not like the Nazis are the only option for Israel in the dictatorship department.
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ComradeClaus wrote:Israel is enacting it's version of "Sharia" law
Funny thing about Sharia: It is not actually found in or from the Quran. It is from the Sunnah. This is why many Muslims follow the Quran, but do not follow Sharia. Rabbinical law, however, can not be separated from the Hebrew Bible or the Torah as Leviticus is the third of the five founding books of both works.
Ironically, the Talmud isn't part of the Torah even though from my personal reading of it (parts anyways), it is miles beyond Leviticus.
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

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Of course there are many other examples, it's just one most popularly used because the disaster that visited Germany was itself the main driving force for the Israeli creation. Now they themselves are steering into a similar world of hate and conflict. Maybe it was inevitable, it will be interesting to see how it plays out in the coming decades.
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

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Pelranius wrote:What would be the chances of the Israeli Supreme Court being able to overturn Kadima's latest pandering act?
Kadima hasn't decided whether to support the bill or not, last I heard (see last line fo the Haaretz article above).

I'm not sure whetehr or not the Court could overturn this. It should be noted, however, that while this law is odious, the talk flying here about "theocracy" is overblown. Under this law, Jewish law is supposed to be addressed only if their is no legislation or custom recommending a cerrtain verdict, in which case the judge(s) is suppsoed to rule in the spirit of Jewish law. Any judge with a smidgeon of creativity could avoid doing that indefinitely, so I seriously doubt there's any prospect of halachic rule.
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

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eyl wrote:
Pelranius wrote:What would be the chances of the Israeli Supreme Court being able to overturn Kadima's latest pandering act?
Kadima hasn't decided whether to support the bill or not, last I heard (see last line fo the Haaretz article above).

I'm not sure whetehr or not the Court could overturn this. It should be noted, however, that while this law is odious, the talk flying here about "theocracy" is overblown. Under this law, Jewish law is supposed to be addressed only if their is no legislation or custom recommending a cerrtain verdict, in which case the judge(s) is suppsoed to rule in the spirit of Jewish law. Any judge with a smidgeon of creativity could avoid doing that indefinitely, so I seriously doubt there's any prospect of halachic rule.
Hopefully Israeli judicial appointments aren't as politicized as they are here in America.
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Pelranius wrote:
eyl wrote:
Pelranius wrote:What would be the chances of the Israeli Supreme Court being able to overturn Kadima's latest pandering act?
Kadima hasn't decided whether to support the bill or not, last I heard (see last line fo the Haaretz article above).

I'm not sure whetehr or not the Court could overturn this. It should be noted, however, that while this law is odious, the talk flying here about "theocracy" is overblown. Under this law, Jewish law is supposed to be addressed only if their is no legislation or custom recommending a cerrtain verdict, in which case the judge(s) is suppsoed to rule in the spirit of Jewish law. Any judge with a smidgeon of creativity could avoid doing that indefinitely, so I seriously doubt there's any prospect of halachic rule.
Hopefully Israeli judicial appointments aren't as politicized as they are here in America.
They're politicized to the left. (So far. Thankfully)
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

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Pelranius wrote:Hopefully Israeli judicial appointments aren't as politicized as they are here in America.
They aren't.

Unlike in the US, where SC judges are selected by the sitting President, judges (at all levels) in Israel are selected from a list formed by a committe composed of the Minister of Justice + another government minister, the President of the SC + 2 other SC judges, 2 members of the Israeli Bar and 2 Members of Knesset. So the element of politics in the choice is relatively lesser (there has been criticism that the judicial establishment has too much power in the process, though)

Incidently, FWITW, in my previous post, I said that the law required judges to rule according to Jewish law if there were no other indicators, which isn't exactly the case according to the text of the law - it says the should rule according to the "principles of freedom, justice, integrity and peace in Jewish heritage."

Also,
Haaretz wrote:A number of Kadima lawmakers say they are reconsidering the bill they submitted on Wednesday calling for a new Basic Law that changes Israel's definition as a "Jewish and democratic state" to "the national home for the Jewish people." The bill also proposes that Hebrew be the country's only official language, removing Arabic from the list.

On hursday speaker Reuven Rivlin gathered the Arab Knesset members for the traditional Iftar feast in the Knesset cafeteria, where he summed up the parliament's closing summer session as stormy and controversial.

A day earlier, 40 lawmakers, including 20 from the opposition Kadima party, submitted the bill, which would make democratic rule subservient to the state's definition as "the national home for the Jewish people."

On Thursday MK Doron Avital (Kadima ) removed his signature from the proposal. MK Nachman Shai (Kadima ) said he would remove his unless several clauses he objects to are deleted.
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Re: Israel works for peace, takes steps to "fit in neighborh

Post by Darth Yoshi »

Bwah? That's weird. I wonder why they're reconsidering, and why they didn't reconsider before signing on to the bill.
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