What is your model for Utopia?(RAR)

[FaxModem1]

What, to you, would be a functional utopia?

It has to be Earth, it has to be 2011, and the technology, knowledge, population and history are the same. You can only change people's attitudes or laws regarding one issue, so how would you do it? How would you make utopia? Keep in mind, their attitudes can sway again if your system is found to be flawed or not working to their benefit, and they'll quickly change to the old system or a different one that may be much worse.

Note, you will not be king or ruler in this government, you will be Joe schmoe, just like everyone else, with all the benefits and hindrances of such.

Serious answers for the first page at least please.

If not the right forum, go ahead and move it.

[Eleas]

I would remove the human impulse to dislike, ignore or destroy Other People.

[FaxModem1]

I'm going to adjust this, since I realized that the above is a kind of impossible RAR.

One, you can't change human nature, not unless we have the technology to do so today. You can just get people to support your cause, somehow and in someway.

Two, you can change more than one thing about a society, but be specific here, after all, who knows, if it would work in real life, you could get a noble prize out of this.

[Traveller]

This is an easy one.

Ban the sale and construction, of gas-powered, private auto-mobiles. Actually ALL private means of transportation based on what we consider a 'car' regardless of its power source.

[Simon_Jester]

This is an easy one.

Ban the sale and construction, of gas-powered, private auto-mobiles. Actually ALL private means of transportation based on what we consider a 'car' regardless of its power source.

...Why is this a good thing and not a dystopian thing? Will you also ban powered scooters? Powered wheelchairs? Motorcycles? Personal helicopters?

[Darth Yoshi]

Why would anyone need a personal helicopter?

[Broomstick]

Gee, why does anyone need to own a house? Why does anyone need to own anything other than the most bare essentials of life?

If you ban ALL personal transportation where is the necessary mass transit going to come from? How are we going to get people from, say, an accident site to a hospital with no ambulances? Horse and buggy? What about cops, are you taking the cars away from them, do they all go back to foot and horse patrol?

[Darth Yoshi]

Gee, why does anyone need to own a house? Why does anyone need to own anything other than the most bare essentials of life?

Don't be absurd. Scooters, wheelchairs, and motorcycles are all personal commute vehicles. When would commuting with a helicopter ever be the best choice? That's like asking what's wrong with the House of Saud's gold plated cars.

If you ban ALL personal transportation where is the necessary mass transit going to come from? How are we going to get people from, say, an accident site to a hospital with no ambulances? Horse and buggy? What about cops, are you taking the cars away from them, do they all go back to foot and horse patrol?

Are emergency vehicles privately owned? I thought they count as municipal property.

[StarSword]

Are emergency vehicles privately owned? I thought they count as municipal property.

Fire and police department vehicles are municipal property, yes, but a lot of American cities have privatized ambulance service. (For example, UNC Hospitals, a public facility, contracts with five different ambulance companies that I know of, and that's just from seeing their vehicles driving around Chatham and Orange Counties.) Whether this is a good thing or not is debatable.

[Broomstick]

For that matter, air ambulances a.k.a. helicopters can be privately owned and operated as well.

I happen to know a chopper pilot who owns his own helicopter. He doesn't use it for "commuting", he makes a living with it. Rather like the owner-operator of a 18 wheel semi can own his truck and use it to make a living.

[Formless]

A functional utopia is one where people stop asking for utopia-- that is, stop pining for a perfect world and start thinking about how to solve the real problems that are right in front of them in the best way possible. And the best way possible isn't going to be without drawbacks or tradeoffs. It isn't going to satisfy everyone. It isn't going to be everyone's idea of paradise. In short, "functional utopia" is an oxymoron.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Agreeing with several others here that a "Utopia" by its nature can be self exclusional.
Especially if we are forced to use the Earth as of 2011, a polluted, over populated, over burdened planet that is on e the brink of collapse in several regards.
It would take a 100 years of total control over all aspects of life to begin to change things around, let alone work things toward a "utopia".

Now give me the chance to change history in key places or redo things from scratch and we may have a better outcome.

[Eulogy]

Now give me the chance to change history in key places or redo things from scratch and we may have a better outcome.

This. So much this.

I'm having a hard time believing that anything that could be considered a utopia could be created using the present world without throwing a lot of Karma Houdinis in the Hague and a lot of blood being spilled. It would feel like a dystopia.

[Darth Yoshi]

For that matter, air ambulances a.k.a. helicopters can be privately owned and operated as well.

I happen to know a chopper pilot who owns his own helicopter. He doesn't use it for "commuting", he makes a living with it. Rather like the owner-operator of a 18 wheel semi can own his truck and use it to make a living.

When I think "personal vehicle" I think "vehicle for personal use," which excludes vehicles used for business. But that makes sense.

[spooky spice]

I answered a thread like this once before and one guy didn't like my "attitude" so I'm not sure I want to share my ideas here...

But I'm going to anyways.

First up, no one's allowed to have kids, unless you can pass a theory exam, a psychiatric evaluation and live with a herd of goats for a year.

Then I'd make 25y/o the "coming of age" age, whereby you are a juvenile until you get to your 25th b'day. You can't work full time, you can't vote, you can't smoke, drink or get married or anything. The only job you'd be allowed to have would be in the food service industry, or cleaning. You have to retire from your job aged 50, no exceptions. Everyone gets paid 40 units of currency per hour regardless of what their job is, how much you take home depends on how many hours you work per week, and to make it fair you do a minimum of 5 hours a week and a maximum of 30 hours per week. There will be deductions from your wages to fund stuff like hospitals, schools, roads, pensions etc.

There will be sports facilities where the athletically gifted can train to the best of their abilities so we can win everything at the Olympics. There will be universities where the academically gifted can do their thing and invent stuff.

I wouldn't allow religion, or at least public displays of religion, there are too many of them and it's just confusing.

There would be roller coasters going from town to town and water slides for the return journeys.

I shall wear a crown so you'll all know who I am, and if anyone curtseys or bows I'll have them flogged.

[FaxModem1]

First off, why goats?

Second, you're not the ruler, you're joe schmoe, so if you wear a crown, so does everyone else.

[SilverWingedSeraph]

Then I'd make 25y/o the "coming of age" age, whereby you are a juvenile until you get to your 25th b'day. You can't work full time, you can't vote, you can't smoke, drink or get married or anything. The only job you'd be allowed to have would be in the food service industry, or cleaning. You have to retire from your job aged 50, no exceptions. Everyone gets paid 40 units of currency per hour regardless of what their job is, how much you take home depends on how many hours you work per week, and to make it fair you do a minimum of 5 hours a week and a maximum of 30 hours per week.

What in the hell makes you think this is in any way a good idea? People can't join the workforce until they're 25 (why?), are forced to leave it when they're 50 (why?), so people can only work for 25 years of their life, which leaves people not working for around 50-60 years of their life, if they live for their average life expectancy, during which time they'd... what? Be entirely dependant upon their family and reliant on any money they had left saved away?

And if all jobs earn the same amount of wages, regardless of the skill or effort required, that means that construction workers with high risk jobs building skyscrappers hundreds of feet in the air, earn as much as the guy who pumps your gas. Who would ever do that job except for an adrenaline junky, if they could do an easier job which requires less training, for the same amount of pay? Did you even think this through slightly? Or is this an elaborate troll post or something? I'm not even sure any more. Between you and the guy saying to get rid of cars and a guy in another thread supporting Colleseum matches and public executions, I'm not even sure what to take seriously anymore.

Edit:

There would be roller coasters going from town to town and water slides for the return journeys.

I missed this part. I guess joke post.

[Imperial528]

What, to you, would be a functional utopia?

A place where the government rules through law and fact. With none of that "interpretation" or "original intent" shit. Laws are to be written and taken literally, and are to be done in complete detail as required. Politicians will actually have to prove that their ideas for solving problems work, not just say it does. Additionally, things like large corporate donations and other elaborate bribes will be considered minor treason. Furthermore, an election result will be seen as a contract between the elected official and all of the voting populace responsible for said official. Politicians will be judged by how well they fit this contract, which essentially says that the official has to enforce law where enforcement is due or within that official's power, the official has to recognize that all laws apply to the official's position just as they would to any citizen, and that the official has to actively work to solve problems that said official has the legal ability to solve, and any such solutions must be backed by proof sufficient to hold up to scientific peer review.

And of course, the main tenant of such a society will be based around this phrase: "One person's freedom ends where another person's freedom begins" (Now, it is flexible, e.g., a government is not a person, which means it gets certain rights a person doesn't have, but it also lacks many that a person would have.)

Also, I think I would like a currency based on the energy value of work. So something like X amount of joules spent during the work-hour gives you Y amount of currency as pay per hour. Of course the value of X and the ratio of X:Y would be a national average measured annually rather then something calculated per worker every day.

[spooky spice]

First off, why goats?

You got a problem with goats?

I missed this part. I guess joke post.

*gold star*

[StarSword]

And of course, the main tenant of such a society will be based around this phrase...

Um, minor pet peeve. The word you're looking for is "tenet", not "tenant". A "tenet" is a rule. A "tenant" is a renter.

Freaking homophones...

[Imperial528]

Sorry about the typo, I was on my ipod. Can't fix it now.

[StarSword]

Sorry about the typo, I was on my ipod. Can't fix it now.

It got past the Washington Post's editors on at least one occasion.

[Rabid]

A "functional Utopia" today ? Too easy.


Create a world agency or whatever having the authority and the coercive power to enforce the following things :

- Reform worldwide agricultural practices so that nobody dies of hunger anymore. Subsidize basic food products. Cure chronic hunger and malnutrition problems.
- Raze all the shantytowns and unhealthy buildings worldwide and set people to work to build clean, modern, hygienic housing. Possibly energy efficient, if you have the means to do so.
- Generalize free, state/authorities-sponsored modern healthcare practices to anyone in need and willing.
- An universal minimal income for everyone to cover all basic needs and promote growth in the poorer parts of the world, financed by income taxes and special taxes on the wealthiest individuals and corporations.
- Fight corruption of government officials, civil servant, cops, etc... that could hinder the application of the three previous measures
- Take steps in order to preserve as much endangered species, plants, insects and animals alike, as possible, in the hope of being able, in the future, to restore their habitat and save them from extinction.


In short, try to cure :

- Hunger.
- Housing problems.
- Diseases arising from a lack of access to modern practices.
- Poverty.

And to prevent :

- Mass worldwide extinction event.


With the Universal Income, you also help fight most environmental problem in third-world countries that come, basically, from peoples trying to survive as best as they can with that they are given (it's to say : the nature around them). Two birds with one stone.



The world don't need any fancy revolution in human nature or whatever. All things like that are just chimera, unattainable and unrealistic goals.

No, what the world need is just Food, Healthcare, Equality and Justice. Guarantee Freedom and Education, and Progress will naturally flow from there.


You will surely hit peak overpopulation at around 13-16 billion people around 2080 from all the third-worlder that did not die and had children themselves, but with responsible policies (which will be taken, as we are in an utopia here), you can reduce the impact on the environment while ensuring that there will be no famine, and that population will return to a more manageable 7-9 billion around 2150.

[spooky spice]

What I'd want is a world where we don't just take care of the old and infirm, but rather we take care of everybody. There might be additional programs for the old, sick, disabled, etc., but the baseline is there for everyone.

Medicare for all, social security for all, that kind of thing. Hopefully, it will be safe from politics shits, like the programs are today.

I'm coming to live there.

(can I bring some goats? )

[StarSword]

What is it with you and goats?