Rioting in London?

[Bluewolf]

A supermarket has been set fire in Essex.

[Simon_Jester]

The pictures are looking pretty terrifying

They're 'terrifying' basically because no one can or will put up any resistance. The population is conditioned to rely completely on the police, and the police are either unable or unwilling to respond. Anyone attempting to defend their community would be derided as vigilantes and probably charged with a much worse sentence than the rioters. The rioters themselves don't seem terribly violent or willing to risk personal injury, they just see it as free stuff and a night of fun with virtually zero consequences. They won't even lose their benefits.

Nobody would be willing to confront a group of, what, fifty+ kids, all armed with baseball bats, crowbars, at least in Walthamstow with Samurai swords and knives as well. I don't blame the police, dealing with something like this is difficult. They'll do what they can to arrest those they can, that's all we can really ask from them.

Hmm. I see now that G. K. Chesterton was prophetic.

The Return of Don Quixote:

"Curious, and I thought it so highly improbable; so highly improbable as to merge itself in what we call the impossible. That a mere stage army of that description- why I thought all educated and enlightened people were aware that such weapons are quite obsolete."

"That," answered Eden, "is because educated and enlightened people never think. Your enlightened man is always taking away the number he first thought of. It seems to be a sign of education first to take a thing for granted and then to forget to see if it is still there. Weapons are a very good working example. The man says he won't go on wearing a sword because it is no longer any good against a gun. Then he throws away all the guns as relics of barbarism; and then he is surprised when a barbarian sticks him through with a sword. You say that pikes and halberds are not weapons against modern conditions. I say pikes are an excellent weapon against no pikes. You say it is all antiquated medieval armament. But I put my money on men who make medieval armament against men who only disapprove of modern armament. And what have any of these political parties ever done about armament except profess to disapprove of it? They renounce it and neglect it and never think of the part it played in political history; and yet they go about with a vague security as if they were girt about with invisible guns that would go off at the first hint of danger...

Now, I don't fully agree with Chesterton, but there's a valid social criticism in there.

[SpaceMarine93]

My brother is in Holborn. Can anyone please tell me if Holborn is affected?!

[Big Orange]

A supermarket has been set fire in Essex.

I think a Sony depot has been torched in Essex. These riots have gotten worse than the 80s riots and certainly spread faster/wider, this is probably the worst case of damage inflicted on London property out of malice since WWII.

OK, I've gotten too much of an anxious adrenalin rush to go to bed because of today's events and I've even gone outside my house very late at night - I faintly heared and seen a police chopper on the far horizon above Bristol's commercial centre. Creeped me out that did.

[Simon_Jester]

My brother is in Holborn. Can anyone please tell me if Holborn is affected?!

You could use Google.

[Zaune]

BBC News live feed that works overseas.

[Broomstick]

Thank you, that is a very helpful link.

Although if I hear that Home Secretary Theresa May say "there is no excuse for violence" one more time instead of actually answering the questions she is asked I may say something naughty. Yes, dear, we know there is no excuse for violence, but that's not the question you were asked.

[Zaune]

You might as well get used to it, it's standard operating procedure for UK politicians.

[Broomstick]

Oh, I see - like the way US politicians are always invoking Jesus?

[Zaune]

Pretty much.

Oh, and did anyone else clock an extremely tall bloke in what looked like a lumberjack shirt looting a shop in Birmingham? I think that was my little brother.

[cosmicalstorm]

This looked like a miniature firestorm
The interview with the owner was heartbreaking, they had owned the place for 120 years!

[Zac Naloen]

My brother is in Holborn. Can anyone please tell me if Holborn is affected?!

All this is South of the river Holborn is North, he'll be safe for now.

[Zaune]

MSNBC World Blog, found via Shadow of the Hegemon.

The sad truth behind London riot


By Martin Fletcher, NBC News correspondent

LONDON -- As political and social protests grip the Middle East, are growing in Europe and a riot exploded in north London this weekend, here's a sad truth, expressed by a Londoner when asked by a television reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?

"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"

The TV reporter from Britain's ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. "Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."

Eavesdropping from among the onlookers, I looked around. A dozen TV crews and newspaper reporters interviewing the young men everywhere.

The truth is that discontent has been simmering among Britain's urban poor for years, and few have paid attention. Social activists say one out of two children in Tottenham live in poverty. It's one of the poorest areas of Britain. Britain's worst riots in decades took place here in 1985. A policeman was hacked to death. After these riots, the same young man pointed out, "They built us a swimming pool."

Poverty, joblessness cycle

Police and local leaders in Tottenham made real progress in improving community relations in the intervening years and that's true about all of Britain. The best way to prevent crime, the theory goes, is to improve the lot of the people, then they won't need to commit crimes. But caught in a poverty and joblessness cycle, young people in many British urban areas have little hope of a better life.

So when a local 29-year-old father, described by police as a gangster, was shot dead by an officer, the response came quickly.

Mark Duggan was killed Thursday. On Saturday night about 50 relatives and friends protested outside the Tottenham police station.

Local young men, almost all with their heads covered by hoods -- known here as "hoodies" -- took advantage to indulge themselves in a favorite sport: cursing the police. This quickly escalated into a night of hurling rocks, bottles (Jack Daniels, one young man told me -- "we broke into the liquor store, drank the Jack Daniels and threw the bottles at the cops"), burning two patrol cars, torching buildings, smashing shop windows and carting off hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of phones, cameras and clothes.

The looting and rioting had nothing at all to do with the killing of Mark Duggan. That was the spark. The bonfire had been prepared by years of neglect, fueled by the anger of young men with no stake in the system, angry at everybody and quick to exploit fury at the killing of a local man, even if he did allegedly fire at the police officer first.

So now the question people in Tottenham are asking is: Will the government pay attention to the social issues underlying the anger?

And a wider question is: Would anyone care at all if there had not been violence?

I think that was a rhetorical question.

[TC27]

MSNBC World Blog, found via Shadow of the Hegemon.

The sad truth behind London riot


By Martin Fletcher, NBC News correspondent

LONDON -- As political and social protests grip the Middle East, are growing in Europe and a riot exploded in north London this weekend, here's a sad truth, expressed by a Londoner when asked by a television reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?

"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"

The TV reporter from Britain's ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. "Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."

Eavesdropping from among the onlookers, I looked around. A dozen TV crews and newspaper reporters interviewing the young men everywhere.

The truth is that discontent has been simmering among Britain's urban poor for years, and few have paid attention. Social activists say one out of two children in Tottenham live in poverty. It's one of the poorest areas of Britain. Britain's worst riots in decades took place here in 1985. A policeman was hacked to death. After these riots, the same young man pointed out, "They built us a swimming pool."

Poverty, joblessness cycle

Police and local leaders in Tottenham made real progress in improving community relations in the intervening years and that's true about all of Britain. The best way to prevent crime, the theory goes, is to improve the lot of the people, then they won't need to commit crimes. But caught in a poverty and joblessness cycle, young people in many British urban areas have little hope of a better life.

So when a local 29-year-old father, described by police as a gangster, was shot dead by an officer, the response came quickly.

Mark Duggan was killed Thursday. On Saturday night about 50 relatives and friends protested outside the Tottenham police station.

Local young men, almost all with their heads covered by hoods -- known here as "hoodies" -- took advantage to indulge themselves in a favorite sport: cursing the police. This quickly escalated into a night of hurling rocks, bottles (Jack Daniels, one young man told me -- "we broke into the liquor store, drank the Jack Daniels and threw the bottles at the cops"), burning two patrol cars, torching buildings, smashing shop windows and carting off hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of phones, cameras and clothes.

The looting and rioting had nothing at all to do with the killing of Mark Duggan. That was the spark. The bonfire had been prepared by years of neglect, fueled by the anger of young men with no stake in the system, angry at everybody and quick to exploit fury at the killing of a local man, even if he did allegedly fire at the police officer first.

So now the question people in Tottenham are asking is: Will the government pay attention to the social issues underlying the anger?

And a wider question is: Would anyone care at all if there had not been violence?

I think that was a rhetorical question.

I bet you every penny I own that 99% of the looters and criminals dont give a rats ass about these 'underlying social issues' - its simply blantant vandalism and thievery organised in a flashmob way by social media and messaging services.

I am saving my sympathy for the people who have had their livelyhood destroyed.

[HMS Sophia]

Special constables are being called to report for duty. London cells are full, detainee's are being shipped out of the city. 44 police injured last night, two seriously (one hit by a car, one needing surgery to his eye). 16 members of the public injured, including one old man who's injuries are life threatening.
28,000 999 calls in the last 24 hours compared to 5,400 normally.

Also, on a heart-warming note, there is a twitter group up calling for people to help clear up the destruction, getting people into organised groups. A Liverpudlian councillor says that this is the true face of Britain, not the riots.

Oh, and the Indians are worried about their cricket match tomorrow.

Source

ETA: A member of the Iranian foreign ministry has advised our government to use restraint in dealing with protestors

[Zaune]

I am saving my sympathy for the people who have had their livelyhood destroyed.

Sympathy isn't capped, you know. You can have it for the people who've lost their livelihoods and the ones who never had a livelihood to lose in the first place, save the dole. Which I've spent five years living on, by the way, so don't tell me it's in any way generous.

Edit: By the way, it turns out my brother was actually nowhere near Birmingham this weekend. He sounds slightly disappointed that he missed it.

[Starglider]

The local yobs set fire to a car just outside my house at about 2 am. Several of the neighbours and I came out, but they'd already run off. Probably brainless copycatting of the main Croydon riot.

[Chirios]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... g-boy.html

Footage shows one man, dressed in tracksuit bottoms, helping up an inured boy who has collapsed on the pavement.
He appears to be bleeding from the nose or mouth but it is not clear whether he had been attacked and knocked to the ground deliberately by the youths around him.

After helping up the boy, the thug, together with another man, unzip the distracted youngster’s backpack and begin stealing his belongings.
A third masked youth then arrives on a bicycle and tries to steal items from the injured boy’s bag while a fourth man, wearing a black baseball cap, walks up behind the boy and grabs what he can from the backpack before strolling off.

Telegraph ain't the best source of news, but the video is pretty clear.

[Dartzap]

Yeah, its been on the Beeb and others as well.

Parliament has been recalled.

[Zaune]

Anyone else amazed to see that Luton hasn't kicked off yet? Or maybe it has, but nobody's bothered to notice.

[K. A. Pital]

My take on that? Police provocation to clear out possible riot and protest leaders from poorest districts before the Olympics.

Usually such operations are quite efficient. Fair share of them, both in the First World and here. Provocators from police and enforcement agencies start instigating people; then it is just a matter of arresting riot leaders and for a few years many protest groups they led will be decapitated and in disarray.

[Zaune]

My take on that? Police provocation to clear out possible riot and protest leaders from poorest districts before the Olympics.

Usually such operations are quite efficient. Fair share of them, both in the First World and here. Provocators from police and enforcement agencies start instigating people; then it is just a matter of arresting riot leaders and for a few years many protest groups they led will be decapitated and in disarray.

That is... chillingly plausible, actually, even if it does smack of uncharacteristically creative thinking on the part of the Conservatives.

[Thanas]

My take on that? Police provocation to clear out possible riot and protest leaders from poorest districts before the Olympics.

Are you freaking serious?

[Chirios]

My take on that? Police provocation to clear out possible riot and protest leaders from poorest districts before the Olympics.

Usually such operations are quite efficient. Fair share of them, both in the First World and here. Provocators from police and enforcement agencies start instigating people; then it is just a matter of arresting riot leaders and for a few years many protest groups they led will be decapitated and in disarray.

Really? The reasons for this riot are well understood. This has nothing to do with any cause or any provocation, this is about stupid little kids running down to footlocker and thieving shoes.

[NoXion]

The police can deal with socialists and students (people from pampered backgrounds who conveniently gather at pre-determined marches), but this huge mob of young crooks created by a dysfunctional, dying Capitalist system have no rythm and rhyme in their pattern of attack, many of them are essentially sociopaths (lack of a firm but fair father figures in their upbrining), and they have caught everybody off guard. I'm worried that when the government gets organized and launches a proper retaliation they'll now clamp down even harder on large gatherings of people with more legitimate grievances and a police state infrastructure could be established by popular demand that will make the UK resemble the dystopian UK from Children of Men (or City 17 from Half-Life 2).

I must admit I am impressed with your ability to diagnose large numbers of people with a specific psychological condition, merely on the basis of news reports and "just-so" stories about kids needing "father figures". I'm sure it has nothing at all to do with the lack of opportunities, the cuts to benefits and amenities, the racist and classist behaviour of the police, the media's demonisation of working class youth, and other factors producing tensions that have explosively come loose.

Considering that "legitimate" channels for airing grievances have thus far proven ineffectual, I don't see why anyone should be surprised at events like this. Write to your MP? What will that shiny-faced arse-lick actually do? Nothing, because their interests lie in maintaining the privilege of the political classes.