Thoery never see UFP soldeirs used wide spread phaser kill

[JasonB]

My theory why never see UFP personal us wide spread phaser setting kill is basic the NDF Theory. If UFP soldier set his phaser rifle to wide spread and longer number rocks affect as much danger to UFP soldiers as to the enemy.

[Multiverse]

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Starfleet officers do not use their phasers to cause rocks to fall on enemies because doing so could hurt Starfleet personnel as well.

[Enigma]

I thought I already answered you, there has been no proof that the phasers can do a wide beam on any mode other than stun. Why? I don't know. Maybe limitations with the power cell or simply that the phasers were not designed for wide beam kill.

[DatBurnTho11]

Maybe there's no proof that phasers can't be consistently used on wide-beam kill mode - possibly because of power cell limitations like Enigma said. However, I'd say there's a good chance dialog from VOY Cathexis might indicate that phasers can at least fire one shot on wide beam kill.

OK... I thought I'd be able to find the script online...

Anyway, Tuvok holds the entire bridge crew hostage with the threat that his phaser is set on wide beam and on kill. The crew visibly reacts to this as if they are concerned for their lives (no one makes any more aggressive moves against him). Unless the bridge crew were all just ignorant of the capacity of their weapon tech, I'd say its reasonable to assume that phasers can at least do more damage than just stunning someone even in a wide beam mode. If he was only threatening one bridge crewmember with a kill-setting phaser blast, it would be a monumentally stupid line of dialogue for the character to say.

[DatBurnTho11]

^ Edit:

I'd say its reasonable to assume that phasers can at least do more damage than just stunning someone even in a wide beam mode AT LEAST FOR ONE SHOT

[Batman]

Actually, we've actually seen them use widebeam vaporize settings. In "Rapture" [DS9], Sisko used a widebeam hand phaser to melt through a rock wall.

Make up your mind-either he melted or hew vaped
And if I remember the incident correctly, if you want to use that widebeam to hit more than one person you'd better get them to hug

^ Edit:
I'd say its reasonable to assume that phasers can at least do more damage than just stunning someone even in a wide beam mode AT LEAST FOR ONE SHOT

Yeah, and at a range of 5-10 metres or so. Call me silly but I'd prefer to kill my enemies a lot farther out, even if it means doing it one at a time.

All we know for certain that widebeam kill is never used. It may not be possible period (which would make everyone on VOY's bridge in the mentioned situation a moron and while that's a pretty apt description of the VOY crew you'd suspect that even they would know there tools well enough to notice if Tuvok were talking complete hogwash), it may come with severe risks to the user of the phaser (those things can be used as impromptu grenades after all), the range may be so low as to make the feature the next best thing to useless in ordinary situations, the increased power means you have only one (or at best a few) shots, any combination thereof, the Space Geneva Convention forbids it, who knows.

Personally I tend to go with massively increased power draw (we're talking about a beam wide enough to hit several people at once vs the standard beam that is maybe half an inch across) and possible safety issues (overheating, for example).

[Alyeska]

PR1 violation by JasonB. Work on your English skills Jason. Or I will start locking your threads on sight.

[Stofsk]

Actually, we've actually seen them use widebeam vaporize settings. In "Rapture" [DS9], Sisko used a widebeam hand phaser to melt through a rock wall.

The phaser used in 'Chain of Command part 1' was also supposed to use widebeam as well on level 16 to get through a wall of rock. It doesn't look particularly wide onscreen though.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Didn't Riker once threaten to use a phaser on maximum/widebeam to take out an entire building?

[Stark]

Didn't people laugh at how stupid that was a decade ago?

PS, he was out of his mind during an alien interrogation and he never did it anyway.

[Stofsk]

He was lucid in that scene though. Riker realised he was experiencing hallucinations, so he tested it with something that would be consistent with what he's experienced with. It's what led him to defeat the illusion and escape from it.

To use an analogy, its like having a dream where you fire a revolver more than six times without reloading. If you realise this, then you become aware that you're dreaming. That's how I interpret the scene in question.

[PREDATOR490]

JasonB has been answered multiple times on the subject of wide beam phasers and he continues to post about this shit regardless.

JasonB: Why didnt Feds use X
Answer: Because Y
JasonB: Theory: Feds didnt used X because Z
Answer: ... Or because Y
JasonB: No no no, Feds didnt use it because Z
Answer: Why the fuck did you ask the question if you already 'knew' the answer ?

Subject: Why do Feds not use Widebeam settings more often ?

1) They are morons
2) They are strategically and tactically inept / inexperienced
3) Technical limitations
4) Training / Regulations / Rules / Morality prevents it

DS9 Rapture - Handphaser being fired at less than 1 - 2 feet away and being waved back and forth like a paint brush.

Should be noted that visually the beam still has a consistant beam at the centre which seems to do the actual damage but it has a visible diffuse to the beam. Sisko stops firing before that beam enters the room but the diffused wide beam rays enter without any damage to the surroundings. It would be reasonable to assume if you fired that setting at someone the actual beam would vaporise them but the diffuse rays would travel a spectrum from vaporise down to reduced effects like scalding. The penetration was hardly impressive when the wall was rather thin so armor or bulky clothing may be enough to impede any effects to the target.

I can see this setting being the equivelent of a flamethrower in combat. Good for close range fighting and terrifying to morale but limited to very niche roles. I can easily see the Federation being unhappy at the idea of setting people on fire or using weapons that maim their targets so would shy away from settings that wont cause a clean kill.

[JasonB]

The phaser rifle power pack is about the size of type 2 phaser. So I would think that if energy was real issue a single phaser would have been unable to kill entire Bridge crew. If I was to make guess it be trained need in order to do safe. Fact that there were many time that UFP personal change tide fire fight by wide spread setting even just on stun.

[CaptainChewbacca]

When did a single phaser knock out the bridge crew in one shot?

[HMS Sophia]

When did a single phaser knock out the bridge crew in one shot?

Voyager. Tuvok, in one of the first season episodes, shot the entire bridge crew with wide beam stun.... IIRC

[Gandalf]

When did a single phaser knock out the bridge crew in one shot?

Voyager. Tuvok, in one of the first season episodes, shot the entire bridge crew with wide beam stun.... IIRC

Cathexis to be specific.

[JasonB]

I rule out energy problem for reason never seen UFP personal fire phaser at wide spread kill setting for the simple fact phaser rifle has a power pack that bigger then type 2 phaser. So if type 2 phaser has able to do at least 1 and half shot wide spread kill setting shots that able kill enter bridge crew then phaser rifle able to do better then that. I think that way I think just issues training most starfleet personal are not train to do it safely.

Also please stop complain my writing's doing best I can I am using spell check on Microsoft words.

[Enigma]

I rule out energy problem for reason never seen UFP personal fire phaser at wide spread kill setting for the simple fact phaser rifle has a power pack that bigger then type 2 phaser. So if type 2 phaser has able to do at least 1 and half shot wide spread kill setting shots that able kill enter bridge crew then phaser rifle able to do better then that. I think that way I think just issues training most starfleet personal are not train to do it safely.

Also please stop complain my writing's doing best I can I am using spell check on Microsoft words.

Means diddly squat. It can still be an energy issue. If larger rifles cannot use wide-beam on kill mode in more than one shot or none at all, then the smaller phasers can't do it at all.

You've been told several good reasons why it can't happen. You haven't provided a single reason why it can. Going by the T.V. series and movies, we've seen phasers stun a person, stun a group of people in wide beam, kill, and vaporize (or whatever you want to call it). The only time we've seen a wide beam phaser on kill mode was what one poster mentioned was to cut through rocks but even then it wasn't much of a wide beam.

There is another reason why we do not see wide beam phaser on kill mode used on a bunch of people. It may be forbidden by Starfleet under threat of harsh penalties to use a phaser on wide beam to kill a bunch of people because it can be perceived as a weapon of mass destruction.

[StarSword]

Also please stop complain my writing's doing best I can I am using spell check on Microsoft words.

I believe Microsoft Word also has a grammar checker. You should use it.

[PREDATOR490]

Saying a phaser can be set to 'kill' on widebeam over simplifies the amount of settings these things have. Logically the more you expand that beam the more energy is going to be required to produce it and the diffuse effects will need to be accounted for. It could simply be a massive technical limitation around phasers being unable to distribute the setting over the ENTIRE beam consistantly.
I.E The person that gets hit dead centre may get 100% of the beam setting but the guy at 45 degrees from that wide beam gets a lower percentage of the beam setting

The show has demonstrated multiple situations where phasers have been ineffective at taking down a target even as a single beam weapon. I.E Stun settings that get brushed off even by humans when other humans go down like a sack of bricks from a single shot. One setting does NOT stun / Kill all just for humans and thats dosent factor in alien resistance etc.

Tuvok's 'Threat' of using a kill setting at wide beam is dialogue only. Even if this is taken literally there is no indiciation what this beam would look like or the effect it would have. The Wide beam stun that was used earlier in that episode took out the entire bridge crew but watching the scene the setting effects are hardly impressive.

Tuvok VS. Voyager

Amusingly, Janeway gets stunned before this scene and is seen lying on the deck the second before Tuvok gets up and sprays the bridge... except in the picture / scene you can see Janeway infront of him.

Channel Jasonb:

I rule out wide arc kill no work for simple fact phaser unable to stun single target. Theory, Starfleet personnel are dumbass to do build effective weapon.

[JasonB]

Another piece of evidence to back my theory you need special training order to us wide phaser rifle set kill setting is final showdown in The Siege of AR-558 were UFP soldiers some how were able to stop Jem Harder soldiers form over running them. The must likely way to explain it is the phaser rifle were set to wide spread kill setting the UFP soldiers did great risk to themselves people around them to get job done. Of across another possible that one UFP soldier ran to get weapons require specialist and took heavy risk and save day.

[Batman]

It's been a while since I saw the siege of AR-558, but if memory serves the displayed number of uses of phasers on widebeam kill in that episode is-zero?

And I hate to tell you, but with widebeam kill it'd actually be far easier to kill a target than with the standard setting, what with not having to aim nearly as accurately, so why exactly would they need special training?

[PREDATOR490]

There is no proof phasers can deploy a widebeam kill setting beyond an alien taking over Tuvok and threatening to hit them with a 'WIDE DISPERSAL' set to 'KILL'.

AR-558 noone knew how to use it ?
Uhm, except Sisko who used a similar setting to melt through a wall 2 feet away. - DS9 Rapture
Uhm, except Sisko who used a phaser rifle to sweep for Changelings using an 'expanding pulse wave' - DS9 The Advesary
Uhm, except Sisko who oversaw wide beam phaser sweeps - DS9 Way of the Warrior, Paradise Lost

You didnt notice that SISKO was at AR-558 during that episode ?
It would only take ONE Sisko to fire that setting at 'wide dispersal' set to 'Kill' to make a lot of Jem Hadar unhappy.

But... but... they could have used wide beam stun against the Jem Hadar !
Except stun settings can be ineffective against humans at the BEST of times let alone against aliens like the Jem Hadar.

If a character like Sisko who has been seen using this setting before DOSENT USE it in AR-558 it is far more reasonable to assume the setting cannot be used and that reason is NOT a lack of training. Afterall, Sisko clearly has the training to use the setting and the will to use it before.

Sisko: Wall blocking my way ? - Wide Beam vaporise
Sisko: Army of angry Jem Hadar charging down a chokepoint dead ahead ? - Hmm... if only I had a way of nuking them all at once... anyone know a setting on the phaser that can do it ? No ?... Fuck.

Alternatively:
Alien Tuvok - Ha, I can screw you all with a wide beam setting set to KILL. Now just clump together 3 feet away so I can zap you all at once if you fuck with me.
Janeway: Waaaait a miniute ! You cant use that setting, you need special Starfleet combat class to use that setting.
Alien TuvoK - ... Ummm no, I just push two buttons and I can do it
Janeway - The medical phaser has a wide beam kill setting... Why wasnt I taught that ?
Voyager Crew - *Fuck !*

[JasonB]

There is no proof phasers can deploy a widebeam kill setting beyond an alien taking over Tuvok and threatening to hit them with a 'WIDE DISPERSAL' set to 'KILL'.

AR-558 noone knew how to use it ?
Uhm, except Sisko who used a similar setting to melt through a wall 2 feet away. - DS9 Rapture
Uhm, except Sisko who used a phaser rifle to sweep for Changelings using an 'expanding pulse wave' - DS9 The Advesary
Uhm, except Sisko who oversaw wide beam phaser sweeps - DS9 Way of the Warrior, Paradise Lost

You didnt notice that SISKO was at AR-558 during that episode ?
It would only take ONE Sisko to fire that setting at 'wide dispersal' set to 'Kill' to make a lot of Jem Hadar unhappy.

But... but... they could have used wide beam stun against the Jem Hadar !
Except stun settings can be ineffective against humans at the BEST of times let alone against aliens like the Jem Hadar.

If a character like Sisko who has been seen using this setting before DOSENT USE it in AR-558 it is far more reasonable to assume the setting cannot be used and that reason is NOT a lack of training. Afterall, Sisko clearly has the training to use the setting and the will to use it before.

Sisko: Wall blocking my way ? - Wide Beam vaporise
Sisko: Army of angry Jem Hadar charging down a chokepoint dead ahead ? - Hmm... if only I had a way of nuking them all at once... anyone know a setting on the phaser that can do it ? No ?... Fuck.

Alternatively:
Alien Tuvok - Ha, I can screw you all with a wide beam setting set to KILL. Now just clump together 3 feet away so I can zap you all at once if you fuck with me.
Janeway: Waaaait a miniute ! You cant use that setting, you need special Starfleet combat class to use that setting.
Alien TuvoK - ... Ummm no, I just push two buttons and I can do it
Janeway - The medical phaser has a wide beam kill setting... Why wasnt I taught that ?
Voyager Crew - *Fuck !*

Our heroes in all Star Trek form not using weapon maximum effectiveness just handicap themselves and people around them. Example this Star Trek DS9 Way of the warrior Sisko run to reach the rest UFP fleet and instead put many civilians harms way. Across then example of battle retake DS9 Sisko should cloak the Defiant and had UFP fleet keep Dominion occupation while did his own surprise attack DS9.

[Thanas]

JasonB, you have already been titled by Dalton. If you do not improve noticeably within a month, you will be banned.

Do not ignore this warning.