SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

[Force Lord]

Intrigue and scheming inside the HumaCoal!

[Ryan Thunder]

A Hammerhead gunship streaked down from the sky and hovered right over the crowds, air displacement from its passing blew away the nearest ravers. Its hull had been modified into a lowrider configuration, its cockpit was convertible and currently open to the air, spoilers were attached on its hull and it bounced with its hydraulic-enhanced repulsors. Its railguns and missile pods and pulse weapons had been replaced by boom boxes, hologram projectors, disco balls.

Nobody on Nova Miratia or Verdance owns a personal vehicle. Public transit is more than adequate and there are no cultural hangups to hinder this. Hammerhead gunships are no longer in production and working models exist only as museum pieces. They have been long since replaced in the auxiliary forces by modern derivative designs.

So basically, this can't happen--the historians wouldn't allow it.

an apathetic and hedonistic nation barely that even involved itself in the current affairs of the galaxy much less keep itself posted on the state of its own people

Hedonistic? Absolutely. Largely uninvolved? Perhaps. Apathetic? Uh, no, LOL. You didn't even bother to ask.

the post-war Tau languished and degenerated while in the rest of the known universe they remained reviled and hated. Nobody condemned the Byzantines for what they did in the Crusade, and nobody would condemn them for what they were going to do to the MEH now.

The Union has in fact condemned the Imperium for what they did. I figured it'd be obvious enough that I wouldn't need to specify it in the prologue thread but I guess you're too damned dense to figure it out on your own.

Many Tau in the ISU are happy, successful citizens descended from naturalized refugees.

So basically, your response to my accusations is to change the subject. They aren't hard questions if your fragile ego can stand to admit that you may be wrong/in this for the totally wrong reasons.

Or hell, if you can convince me through fluff that a Space Marine doesn't deserve to just get gummed to death by 500 regulars (including some 20 tanks by my estimations...)

Nah. Hardly. I did that initial post because I heard from Shroom that some posers were whining about what we are doing.

I did it deliberately to draw you out.

I did it deliberately to spit on posers such as you who spend more time fucking talking than doing anything.

Why don't get the fuck out of the game and be done with it?

So, basically, you're such a pathetic wanker that you can't figure out a way for a Space Marine to kill five companies of regulars, and you just set them at that points cost because you thought it was the highest. Now that I've called you on it, you want to see me gone, so you're attacking me based on my posting frequency. Now that we've settled that, you can go fuck yourself. I'm not going anywhere.

Since you're such a sad sack, I'll show you how to do it with some MEH Marines.

[Shroom Man 777]

A Hammerhead gunship streaked down from the sky and hovered right over the crowds, air displacement from its passing blew away the nearest ravers. Its hull had been modified into a lowrider configuration, its cockpit was convertible and currently open to the air, spoilers were attached on its hull and it bounced with its hydraulic-enhanced repulsors. Its railguns and missile pods and pulse weapons had been replaced by boom boxes, hologram projectors, disco balls.

Nobody on Nova Miratia or Verdance owns a personal vehicle. Public transit is more than adequate and there are no cultural hangups to hinder this. Hammerhead gunships are no longer in production and working models exist only as museum pieces. They have been long since replaced in the auxiliary forces by modern derivative designs.

So basically, this can't happen--the historians wouldn't allow it.

an apathetic and hedonistic nation barely that even involved itself in the current affairs of the galaxy much less keep itself posted on the state of its own people

Hedonistic? Absolutely. Largely uninvolved? Perhaps. Apathetic? Uh, no, LOL. You didn't even bother to ask.

the post-war Tau languished and degenerated while in the rest of the known universe they remained reviled and hated. Nobody condemned the Byzantines for what they did in the Crusade, and nobody would condemn them for what they were going to do to the MEH now.

The Union has in fact condemned the Imperium for what they did. I figured it'd be obvious enough that I wouldn't need to specify it in the prologue thread but I guess you're too damned dense to figure it out on your own.

Many Tau in the ISU are happy, successful citizens descended from naturalized refugees.

Well, I wrote that bit since I thought it'd be cool for there to be gangsta Tau doing some compelling soul music and shit.

Maybe Tau'pac rented the Party Hammerhead. Maybe there are publicly available vehicles converted for entertainment purposes. Who cares?

I'm sure the descriptions of Nova Miratia and Zoria are inaccurate, but eh. That didn't stop us from talking about albinos and geostigma in Shinra, and that won't stop us from talking about gangsta Tau in Miratia.

Either way, the Tau will be the first ones to liken current Byzantine atrocities with their past atrocities.

The point of the Rally To Restore Anger Towards Byzantium is that, well, if anyone won't actually write shit towards Byzantine atrocities or Brag atrocities IC, then we will.

[Force Lord]

Oh Shroom, there is a certain hostage crisis in the wings...

[Shroom Man 777]

Oh Shroom, there is a certain hostage crisis in the wings...

Excellent. Keep it real, FL.

And nuts, I forgot to have Falafel Phil say that this was why Shinra kicked Byzantium out of the MESS. One thousand four hundred years ago.

[DarthShady]

What if it's Alyxia?

Uh...then enjoy your highly exotic and extremely painful parasitic brain disease?

And she will be the one doing the spanking.

Thanks guys!

[Mayabird]

There is way too much drama in this thread. I was ready to come back here and write stuff yesterday and seeing this crap turned me off from even bothering. At least I had that little bit ready to go.

[Agent Sorchus]

I would like to remind everyone that the bulk of the Eoghan Fleet is at Sol already and will shoot at anyship that attempts to flee the system or run for the hypergate. No-one should be able to get out. Apparently people are forgetting that they are there and that is their role, distracting and preventing MeH assets from leaving the system.

AKA: Siege it isn't happening.

[Siege]

Put up something in the IC thread about what your fleet is doing first and then we can put it to Simon what did and did not happen. Because I'm not going to retract an IC post over OOC objections with nothing IC to show for it.

[Agent Sorchus]

I did write that my fleet had arrived at Sol. Just because no one reads my stuff isn't my problem.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 6#p3552006\

EDIT: I might have forgotten to put the place on there, but I remember saying something about it in the Commentary thread.

[Siege]

*shrug* Mods can figure it out. Either refugees escape to the Sovereignty or you'll be seen shooting the shit out of unarmed refugee ships.

[Agent Sorchus]

There are ways enough to disable ships without destroying them utterly you know. I expect some ships can make it out, but not en masse by the warp gate, since that is the main way that CN set up his navy to use as response.

[Siege]

If that is the main way that CN intended to get around then it stands to reason that what remains of his navy will do their utmost to keep you from doing anything to their gate, which will buy refugees time to vamoose it out of Sol. This combined with whatever system defences are present at Sol IMO should buy plenty time for refugees to make their escape.

[Darkevilme]

Where is the gate located though. Cause it's possible that being something that requires more power than your average industrialized world it's somewhere protected or protectable and not on the system outskirts. That being said the Eoghans are under no obligation to shoot at the refugee ships if they have the opportunity to shoot that area, they can just blow up the power feeds, temporarily disable the gate and call it tasteyfruit.

Addendum on the power issue: Moving any significant fraction of Sol's population before the coalitions get there is a BIG job. I strongly suspect the strain would leave whatever power systems they're using in no fit state to power anything else (such as defensive guns or shields) for the foreseeable future.

[Agent Sorchus]

The problem is that the battle would've been joined hours before your offer of refuge went out (Since the Eoghan group timed it's attack to the same time as the Xena Space offensive). Certainly the battle near the Warp Gate would be difficult (though I would not want to fully engage with so little forces) such that the refugees would find an easier time leaving the system on the periphery. And this is especially true since they have had no time to plan their escape and this entire offense (ie the Inhumanist attack) was a shock to the high command of the MeH. Refugees are not going to be massive or well done affair.

[Siege]

I was never suggesting they move significant fractions of the population. Maybe several tens to hundreds of thousands, possibly millions depending on how many big ships they have to support the operation, but certainly not anywhere near the billions that ought to be present in-system, particularly since every ship is going on a one-way trip -- once through, they're not going to return.

Having said that, I don't buy the attack being a "shock" to the MEH high command. The Shinrans extended an ultimatum, they let that ultimatum expire, they must've known broadly what was going to happen next, especially since fleets could be seen massing on their borders, so surely they prepared their defences accordingly.

I furthermore posit that the warp gate, representing - by itself - a 1 NCP investment or the GDP equivalent of $1000, should be very difficult to take out of play. I don't want to set the precedent that warp gates can be conveniently knocked out of action by a quick raid, since that would mean potentially screwing over everyone who's invested in more than one as a means of quickly reinforcing key systems (which would include myself). And that is ignoring system defences and any fleet elements present which would surely make a point of defending such a high value target to begin with.

[Agent Sorchus]

I was never suggesting they move significant fractions of the population. Maybe several tens to hundreds of thousands, possibly millions depending on how many big ships they have to support the operation, but certainly not anywhere near the billions that ought to be present in-system, particularly since every ship is going on a one-way trip -- once through, they're not going to return.

I'll grant easily there could be Tens of thousands that get out before or during the battle, but I doubt if more than that would get out. We have to remember that this is more than just a secular state, and it has all the aspects of a fascist Theocracy with a GOD as the head of Government. And the God has done a lot to try and supplicate the populace into thinking that they can never fall. I would say that many more are going to be leaving after the battle and the start of the occupation (depending on the rules of the occupiers). If you wait a bit the Eoghans will definitely allow refugees to leave after being fully documented as to their activities as part of the government or towards the activities in Farthing. But we don't want the leaders to flee, thus the shooting of civilian ships.

Having said that, I don't buy the attack being a "shock" to the MEH high command. The Shinrans extended an ultimatum, they let that ultimatum expire, they must've known broadly what was going to happen next, especially since fleets could be seen massing on their borders, so surely they prepared their defenses accordingly.

The Shinran coalition and Bragulan centered forces are only working slightly toward the same goal. One could imagine that the Chammarans might've requested the presence other non-human nations in case the totally overpowered human forces decided to get rid of their old foes. The MeH command would (and definitely did) put a backup plan in case of the Inhumanists attacking after the events of Farthing, but it was centered on a superweapon that failed. (Honestly that is one of the things that I found a little weird)

I furthermore posit that the warp gate, representing - by itself - a 1 NCP investment or the GDP equivalent of $1000, should be very difficult to take out of play. I don't want to set the precedent that warp gates can be conveniently knocked out of action by a quick raid, since that would mean potentially screwing over everyone who's invested in more than one as a means of quickly reinforcing key systems (which would include myself). And that is ignoring system defences and any fleet elements present which would surely make a point of defending such a high value target to begin with.

I'm not saying a quick raid. Quite literally all of my forces and Zor's are involved (~$15000 of ships). That is not minor. Besides I'm most likely not going to commit forces into taking it 'out' since it is such an asset, but simply prevent ships from the majority of the planets in system from reaching it, while also providing sufficient threat that the Capitol fleet can't really leave the system to reinforce any of the other attacks.

[Mayabird]

The Black Asteroid is supposed to be in Outlander space, right? I tried to find references in the Wiki, could not, then said "screw it" and wrote it anyway. I guess I'll have to edit if I was wrong.

Anywho, I don't actually have any plans for continuing this storyline or know how the UAE will react (aside from getting really pissed off at rioting after we let some Third Muhammedans through), but there we go.


As for MEH, I'm thinking it's time for Operation Bomberman.

[Master_Baerne]

Sorchus, some reinforcements for you.

[Ryan Thunder]

Well, I wrote that bit since I thought it'd be cool for there to be gangsta Tau doing some compelling soul music and shit.

Well, the rest of it was good, lol.

I'm sure the descriptions of Nova Miratia and Zoria are inaccurate, but eh. That didn't stop us from talking about albinos and geostigma in Shinra, and that won't stop us from talking about gangsta Tau in Miratia.

I'm not saying they can't exist or trying to discourage you from writing about them. It's totally cool. Just ironing out some details is all.

Either way, the Tau will be the first ones to liken current Byzantine atrocities with their past atrocities.

The point of the Rally To Restore Anger Towards Byzantium is that, well, if anyone won't actually write shit towards Byzantine atrocities or Brag atrocities IC, then we will.

Hang on a minute...

[Simon_Jester]

I would like to remind everyone that the bulk of the Eoghan Fleet is at Sol already and will shoot at anyship that attempts to flee the system or run for the hypergate. No-one should be able to get out. Apparently people are forgetting that they are there and that is their role, distracting and preventing MeH assets from leaving the system.

AKA: Siege it isn't happening.

Sorchus, I am ruling that the MEH can get significant numbers of small personnel transports out via the Sol warpgate.

I will explain my reasons in more detail when I'm not exhausted from travel and when there isn't a goddamn thunderstorm pounding on my house and knocking out power periodically (that already ate one nice long explanation).

Short explanation: the Sol warpgate is probably in close orbit around one of the MEH planets (Uranus, as I recall). To get your ships close enough to that planet to interdict movement to and from the warpgate, you would have to get close enough for the planetary defenses to shoot back. You would also risk having your fleet get pinned between the planetary defenses and the bulk of the MEH's Battlefleet Sol.

Unless your admiral on the spot is willing to take disproportionate losses against a roughly equal MEH force in order to prevent small transports and fighters from escaping through the gate, you will not be able to stop movement from that planet to the gate.

You will also not be able to reliably stop ships from moving in the planetary orbital zone of any of the other planets- you can launch long range or harassment attacks, but you can't duke it out with the orbital defenses unless you're willing to accept battle between however many points of ships you have in Sol and however many points the MEH has in Sol, without benefit of reinforcements from the rest of OMINOUS.

You can, however, interdict movement between the planets of Sol system, attacking any ships which try to run from, say, Earth to Mars. MEH convoys protected by some of their more powerful ships may still be able to push through your blockade, unless you commit the forces to stop them... which, again, means Eoghans will do a disproportionate share of the dying in the battle for Sol.

Again, I will explain in more detail when I have the time. Sorchus, please don't blow a gasket at me until I've had the chance to do that.

There are ways enough to disable ships without destroying them utterly you know. I expect some ships can make it out, but not en masse by the warp gate, since that is the main way that CN set up his navy to use as response.

Sorchus, between the two coalitions, there aren't any reinforcements left- all three of the other systems have fallen and the gates are in human or OMINOUS hands. The warp gate now has no use except evacuating refugees.

Where is the gate located though. Cause it's possible that being something that requires more power than your average industrialized world it's somewhere protected or protectable and not on the system outskirts. That being said the Eoghans are under no obligation to shoot at the refugee ships if they have the opportunity to shoot that area, they can just blow up the power feeds, temporarily disable the gate and call it tasteyfruit.

Because the warp gate is in planetary orbit around one of the major MEH worlds in Sol, they can't do this easily- they'd have to duke it out with the planetary defenses, and they'd risk getting attacked by the MEH mobile fleet in Sol system while they do that.

The Eoghans have 15000 points present, more or less. That isn't enough that they should feel extremely confident taking on what the MEH has in the system. Their logical strategy is to blockade- disperse their ships into task forces, attack anything moving between the planets, and try to cut the system apart into five isolated 'fortress worlds' which can be taken on separately.

Addendum on the power issue: Moving any significant fraction of Sol's population before the coalitions get there is a BIG job. I strongly suspect the strain would leave whatever power systems they're using in no fit state to power anything else (such as defensive guns or shields) for the foreseeable future.

The bulk of the MEH population will not be escaping Sol via the warp gate. I doubt even one in a thousand of them will, because I doubt their civilization has enough spacelift to move everyone, or even a significant fraction of everyone, at once. Especially when only ships small enough to make long range warp gate transfers can be used.

I furthermore posit that the warp gate, representing - by itself - a 1 NCP investment or the GDP equivalent of $1000, should be very difficult to take out of play. I don't want to set the precedent that warp gates can be conveniently knocked out of action by a quick raid, since that would mean potentially screwing over everyone who's invested in more than one as a means of quickly reinforcing key systems (which would include myself). And that is ignoring system defences and any fleet elements present which would surely make a point of defending such a high value target to begin with.

Agreed. My own warp gate is placed "under the guns" of my capital world's defensive proton gun batteries, along with assorted STL fighter and missile platforms, plus a permanent fleet base somewhere near the planet. I would find it most unreasonable for someone to be able to casually wipe it out as soon as they arrive in a system.

[Siege]

I'm not saying a quick raid. Quite literally all of my forces and Zor's are involved (~$15000 of ships). That is not minor.

Due to the way CN was allowed to set up his nation, all of Sector 26 A's defences are based in a single system. Since Sol is a home sector, that means 7,000 points of system defences, plus of course the battlefleet which, in an admittedly hurried tally of his navy page, counts 10,565 points worth of ships for a grand total of 17,565 points...

[Agent Sorchus]

I'm not saying a quick raid. Quite literally all of my forces and Zor's are involved (~$15000 of ships). That is not minor.

Due to the way CN was allowed to set up his nation, all of Sector 26 A's defences are based in a single system. Since Sol is a home sector, that means 7,000 points of system defences, plus of course the battlefleet which, in an admittedly hurried tally of his navy page, counts 10,565 points worth of ships for a grand total of 17,565 points...

Yet you forget, the mods have already noted that all of CN's defenses are planet bound and can't be used in deep space. This was to prevent him from sending them through the warp gates and being totally wanked.

ALSO I am totally ignoring Simon's post for now. I do not have the energy to read it or to argue with it.

Ultimately I refuse to acknowledge any refugee's leaving for the reasons of timing and it being out of character for the MeH. You can't say that the refugees have time to plan a trip when the Eoghan fleet is already outside their door especially since your refugee thing only happens after the beginnings of the ground assault on Xena which is easily hours after the start of battle in Sol.

ALSO the Second, I wonder how well your signal is going to get through the fleet's ability to simply jam it. Have you thought about that? No.

You didn't want to get involved in this as it stands. Why start now?

(IF anyone wants to know the source of my ire in this case, it's that I might as well not post for all the attention I get when I do.)

[Simon_Jester]

I'm not saying a quick raid. Quite literally all of my forces and Zor's are involved (~$15000 of ships). That is not minor.

Due to the way CN was allowed to set up his nation, all of Sector 26 A's defences are based in a single system. Since Sol is a home sector, that means 7,000 points of system defences, plus of course the battlefleet which, in an admittedly hurried tally of his navy page, counts 10,565 points worth of ships for a grand total of 17,565 points...

Yet you forget, the mods have already noted that all of CN's defenses are planet bound and can't be used in deep space. This was to prevent him from sending them through the warp gates and being totally wanked.

ALSO I am totally ignoring Simon's post for now. I do not have the energy to read it or to argue with it.

If you don't have the energy to read my post, it stands anyway.

CN's defenses are planetbound, but each planet still has a 1400-point defense force. If you're splitting your fleet to besiege each planet, the defenders are only outgunned by about 2:1 against each planet's blockading squadrons. Which means the battle will be protracted, if one-sided: you can win cheaply, or quickly, but you can't win cheaply and quickly.

And that's not factoring in the MEH mobile fleet- if the Sol battlefleet is more concentrated than your own split-up forces, a decisive battle against planetary defenses would give them time to drop the hammer on you.

Now, if you concentrated the entire force you have available for an attack on Uranus to punch out the warp gate, you could do it... after fighting a pitched battle with the Uranus planetary defenses and the mobile fleet, which are at a total of ~12000 points and large enough to inflict very severe losses on your forces before being destroyed or before reinforcements arrive.

But you didn't write "concentrated on the warp gate" as your original strategy. Instead, your ships split up 'by squadrons' to interdict shipping throughout the system, or to hover opportunistically on the fringe waiting for something to happen- it's not clear which. That's a perfectly sensible strategy, but you don't get to shift your deployment on the fly in response to an unexpected event, not unless you write your people doing it IC and accept the costs of doing so (confusion, delay, and casualties if it's a dangerous plan you've changed to).

Ultimately I refuse to acknowledge any refugee's leaving for the reasons of timing and it being out of character for the MeH. You can't say that the refugees have time to plan a trip when the Eoghan fleet is already outside their door especially since your refugee thing only happens after the beginnings of the ground assault on Xena which is easily hours after the start of battle in Sol.

There would be plenty of time for random individuals with ready access to ships to pile into those ships and run for it, if they can reach the gate.

Which they can, if they don't get intercepted during interplanetary trips by your fleet, unless your fleet is making a dedicated offensive to break the Uranus planetary defenses and take out the gate.

Which you could do... if you are willing to accept the predictably heavy losses you'll take fighting a pitched battle with the planetary defenses and the mobile fleet assets at the same time. The MEH fleet is horribly outgunned and outnumbered; if you attack the gate in sufficient force to penetrate the defenses you'll be offering them a much closer to bite-sized portion of the OMINOUS fleet. Something they could actually hope to take on and defeat, or at least put a nice big dent in.

Are you willing to accept that?

If you aren't willing to take the losses required to attack and neutralize a defended warp gate in a system still occupied by an intact fleet of over ten thousand points, then frankly I don't give a shit whether you "acknowledge" posts saying some refugees got away or not, and Siege shouldn't either. The fact that it doesn't match your preconceived notion of a clean sweep doesn't make any difference, if you're not willing to pay the price required to stop it from happening.

That's the trouble with war. The other side gets to have guns too, and sometimes they don't play by your plans.

In this case, there is a damn good chance of some refugees firing up the Sol warp gate and trying to escape, and some will in all probability make it. Their evacuation transports may be under long range fire from harassing Eoghan battlegroups, or they may not, or the Eoghan fleet may mass and attack the warp gate all at once in an attempt to cut off the escaping MEHships. Your call.

ALSO the Second, I wonder how well your signal is going to get through the fleet's ability to simply jam it. Have you thought about that? No.

You didn't want to get involved in this as it stands. Why start now?

Because it amuses him to do so, because he's come up with a plausible, internally consistent action his nation could take, and because this is a game. Good enough for me.

Does it spoil your fun that much if a handful of fat idiots who manage to finagle their way onto a shuttle escape the overall annihilation of the MEH?

And on the general topic, I see no reason to assume you can jam all incoming communications over an entire star system. Not when you don't know any of the details of how the message is transmitted.

(IF anyone wants to know the source of my ire in this case, it's that I might as well not post for all the attention I get when I do.)

Since half the time you expect people to know what you're thinking in advance on the basis of not just your own posts but what you expect to achieve with the actions outlined in those posts... I think your standards are off.

Your post does not say "oh, by the way, my fleet has completely locked down all space travel in the MEH home system." Nor does it say "oh, by the way, we're taking our ships in close to deal with stuff covered by heavy planetary defense platforms." Indeed, it says the opposite:

"<All ships engage at max range> "Do not allow the defenders to decisively engage, keep movement by squadron and plan.""

That description is consistent with an Eoghan attempt to interdict interplanetary movement within the Sol system, and I have no problem with the idea that you're largely successful at doing this- it would take a strong MEH naval escort to get any civilian ships moving between the planets of that system as long as your fleet is buzzing around in deep space chasing things down.

It is not consistent with a close blockade of each and every MEH planet. Distant blockade is more likely, possibly with a side-order of loose blockade if you're hoping to draw out individual MEH ships and destroy them piecemeal. But without close blockade, you cannot stop MEH citizens on the planet right next to the warp gate from trying to enter the warp gate. At most, you can make it dangerous by throwing long range fire into the area they're running through, which means some but not all of the evacuation transports will die.

[Shroom Man 777]

Warp gate communications isn't jammable, the Solarians could've transmitted it to Sol via warpgate.

What's wrong with some fatties, a drop in the ocean, managing to sneak out by warpgate to Tannhauser?

The Black Asteroid is supposed to be in Outlander space, right? I tried to find references in the Wiki, could not, then said "screw it" and wrote it anyway. I guess I'll have to edit if I was wrong.

Anywho, I don't actually have any plans for continuing this storyline or know how the UAE will react (aside from getting really pissed off at rioting after we let some Third Muhammedans through), but there we go.

Yeah, the Black Stone is in the Outlands according to loomer's (may the space gods rest his soul) thinggy. I also referenced it being in the Outlands in my UAE thing. Though I had to recheck since I may have confused it with something else.

The Emir will thank the Refuge graciously for its offer and accept it. He's a player, and knows he can't mess around with the biggest nation in the Outlands.

In fact, the UAE will probably be pleased to see the Refuge being nice to them Since that basically puts the UAE above its other rivals, who the Refuge hasn't been nice to yet.