How would you deal with a fundie you have to work with?

[Coyote]

Aha! Now there can be no counter-reaction to the above Wongite rant; for it is better to just let a Fundie talk and ignore him... [/sarcasm].

Sorry, just stirring the pot.

[Perinquus]

Unfortunately, I have a whole raft of relatives on my mother's side who are fundies. As long as you keep them off the topic of religion, they're nice people. But they are irrational as hell, and when it comes to their faith, they are as arrogant as they can be.

Last year, I had to attend the funeral of one of my great aunts. Her son, an ordained misister in the Baptist church, gave the funeral oration. He was giving his testimonial to the outstanding strength of his mother's faith (naturally, to him this was an admirable thing). He described how his mother had, while in the hospital just before her death from cancer, had tried to convert her Jewish oncologist. [sarcasm]My isn't that touching? A woman at death's door, with the last of her strength attempts to witness for Jesus![/sarcasm] When one of her grandchildren (who is not religious) suggested that maybe she should rest and not tire herself by sitting up and talking too much, my great aunt's reply was: "But that little Jew boy needs to hear about Jesus too."

I looked around me in the church as my cousin the minister related this story proudly. I saw heads nodding, and heard a couple of mourners at the service say "amen!" It took a great deal of self control to keep the disgust from showing on my face. Think of it: this oncologist, who just happens to be Jewish (I've no idea how devout), is a respected professional in his field, studied for years in a very difficult area, no doubt works hard to support his family, is no doubt highly intelligent, is dismissed by a tragically ignorant and poorly educated woman as "that little Jew boy"! Could she have said anything more offensive, condescending, and filled with more self-righteous. misplaced pity?

Sometimes I think I must have been switched in the hospital for another baby.

[Darth Wong]

I looked around me in the church as my cousin the minister related this story proudly. I saw heads nodding, and heard a couple of mourners at the service say "amen!" It took a great deal of self control to keep the disgust from showing on my face. Think of it: this oncologist, who just happens to be Jewish (I've no idea how devout), is a respected professional in his field, studied for years in a very difficult area, no doubt works hard to support his family, is no doubt highly intelligent, is dismissed by a tragically ignorant and poorly educated woman as "that little Jew boy"! Could she have said anything more offensive, condescending, and filled with more self-righteous. misplaced pity?

Sometimes I think I must have been switched in the hospital for another baby.

Very sad. Unfortunately, it's also very typical. I've attended fundie services before (I've attended regular Christian services, pentehostile services, and even a JW service once), and they are simply accustomed to flaming the shit out of every other belief system without a shred of justification other than the fact that it's different. Atheists get special hate treatment, being blamed for just about everything wrong in society on a regular basis. They think this is the most natural thing in the world, and don't see it as bigoted or hateful at all.

[Coyote]

"But that little Jew boy needs to hear about Jesus too."

Oh, bugger.

[neoolong]

I looked around me in the church as my cousin the minister related this story proudly. I saw heads nodding, and heard a couple of mourners at the service say "amen!" It took a great deal of self control to keep the disgust from showing on my face. Think of it: this oncologist, who just happens to be Jewish (I've no idea how devout), is a respected professional in his field, studied for years in a very difficult area, no doubt works hard to support his family, is no doubt highly intelligent, is dismissed by a tragically ignorant and poorly educated woman as "that little Jew boy"! Could she have said anything more offensive, condescending, and filled with more self-righteous. misplaced pity?

Sometimes I think I must have been switched in the hospital for another baby.

Hmm. Seems she forgot that Jesus was a Jew as well.

[Superman]

One thing about fundie funerals that irks me is that they sometimes decide to do altar calls. I have worked more than a few funeral services where the preacher, realizing that the deceased's "heathen friends" are in attendance, decided to try and convert them. Tries to convert them AT A FUNERAL SERVICE! How low is that?

[Alyrium Denryle]

I am leaving a provision in my will. Should the mrmon church try to do a "Baptism for the Dead" and put my name in their records post-mortum, after I hving my entire life slammed the door in a rude fashion in the faces of their missionaries...My family will sue the mormon church for all they are worth, and donate 50% of the award to a secular charity, or the university where i earned my degrees

[Darth Servo]

I am leaving a provision in my will. Should the mrmon church try to do a "Baptism for the Dead" and put my name in their records post-mortum, after I hving my entire life slammed the door in a rude fashion in the faces of their missionaries...My family will sue the mormon church for all they are worth, and donate 50% of the award to a secular charity, or the university where i earned my degrees

Don't worry. They only do the work for the dead if someone like a family member submits your name directly to them. As far as I know, they don't go hunting through obituaries looking for "new potential"

[Darth Gojira]

Well, my old man is a moderate but a theological junkie. My mum thinks that abstinence solves all sex problems until marriage, then you can have sex all you want I also have a Republican but nice Math teacher who thinks that the Koran is nonviolent(Despite the "God is so good he won't toast your asss if you convert" crap). I also have an aunt who went to Yugoslavia just because some nutball thought s/he saw a saint in a commode or something. Reason won't touch them, but I have a Jewish friend who saw the light once I told him about how Moses in Exodus might be viewed as a terrorist. My agnosticism/atheism makes me a black sheep in my religious family(My dad's grandpa was Polish, my mom's a feverent Mexican). 34 months until religious freedom....

[Darth Wong]

The "abstinence-only" people are very much like communists; they advocate a system which ignores human nature and can't possibly work for that reason, and they blame the people for being human rather than the system for being a bad idea.

[Lagmonster]

As I've mentioned before, I work with two fundies. Real nasty ones, too.

In all honesty, you can't deal with them on their own level. Debating religion with the average fundie is useless, because they don't have any knowledge that doesn't pertain to their brainwashing. If you try, you end up being referred to loudly at a Christmas party as, 'that ignorant, immoral atheist guy'. We'll leave aside that the 'ignorant, immoral atheist guy' put himself through university, established himself in my field, and has been a loving and loyal friend and husband, with no criminal transgressions or life-long grudges or enemies to speak of, because if we brought THAT up, we would be putting a big hole in the mindset of fundies who cannot accept that a person could be good or productive without God.

Me, I've gone through all the stages. I started with polite debate, thinking I could out-reason them (note: You can, but they do not care). I moved on to telling them to leave me alone out of respect. I progressed to exchanging swear words in the hallway (you want to see funny? One of them makes the sign of the cross every time you swear violently. You can give him a hand cramp if your lungs hold out). Finally, I just settled into quiet loathing, which is where we have been ever since.

My experience is this: If they refuse to abandon their quest to save your soul or introduce you to Jesus, then you just can't get along with them, because to them, there IS no middle ground. If you have the option to do so, just stay the hell away from them. Getting into a verbal scuffle with them could hurt your career if it gets viewed the wrong way by management.

[Darth Wong]

As I've mentioned before, I work with two fundies. Real nasty ones, too.

In all honesty, you can't deal with them on their own level. Debating religion with the average fundie is useless, because they don't have any knowledge that doesn't pertain to their brainwashing. If you try, you end up being referred to loudly at a Christmas party as, 'that ignorant, immoral atheist guy'.

Sounds like they're just being assholes, or feeding off each other. I've debates fundies on many occasions; if the office is dominated with them you can't win, but if the office is mostly composed of moderates, it is not difficult to expose the fundies' bigotry and ignorance for public viewing and thus marginalize them and make them stop trying to sell their shit in the office.

Me, I've gone through all the stages. I started with polite debate, thinking I could out-reason them (note: You can, but they do not care). I moved on to telling them to leave me alone out of respect. I progressed to exchanging swear words in the hallway (you want to see funny? One of them makes the sign of the cross every time you swear violently. You can give him a hand cramp if your lungs hold out). Finally, I just settled into quiet loathing, which is where we have been ever since.

Sounds like you need a change of workplace.

My experience is this: If they refuse to abandon their quest to save your soul or introduce you to Jesus, then you just can't get along with them, because to them, there IS no middle ground. If you have the option to do so, just stay the hell away from them. Getting into a verbal scuffle with them could hurt your career if it gets viewed the wrong way by management.

My solution has always been to be artificially polite if I'm in the hall or in their work area, but let the verbal scuffles happen freely if they're in MY work area. Because in that case, any manager will naturally accept my explanation that the fundie was harassing ME, not the other way around (which is true in any case, but it's important to be sure the right impression is generated).

[Admiral Valdemar]

I have, thankfully, never encountered a real fundamentalist who has to inflict his/her views on everyone around themselves. I have known a couple of people who had strong points about their religion, one Christian and one Pagan girl I knew in college had a sort of debate at lunchtime once, in the end they both agreed to disagree and left it at that.

If anyone were to continually harass me with their opinions be it religious, scientific or just general social stuff, then I would have to tell them to be a little more considerate or show them that I too have viewpoints of my own.

If we were all the same the planet would be boring, but differences can be inflated into real vendettas if you aren't careful. I am anti-idiocy and that is, sadly, not restricted to fundamentalists, but I tolerate those who have a religion or view that conflicts with mine.

[Shinova]

You guys all seem to live close to fundamentalist neighborhoods. Let's try a slight deviation from the main topic:


who here, just a show of hands, does not live close to any fundies?


*raises hand*

There's that one fundie kid but he's only at school and I only see him like once per month.

[Stravo]

One thing about fundie funerals that irks me is that they sometimes decide to do altar calls. I have worked more than a few funeral services where the preacher, realizing that the deceased's "heathen friends" are in attendance, decided to try and convert them. Tries to convert them AT A FUNERAL SERVICE! How low is that?

OK, now THAT would piss me off to no end. That is the heart of the problem with the Fundie, they WANT to convert you because in all seriousness they REALLY do think that they're saving you. I've seen that look in their eyes where they regard you with a strange mix of pity and feverish resolve. Frankly, it's fucking scary.

[Admiral Valdemar]

You guys all seem to live close to fundamentalist neighborhoods. Let's try a slight deviation from the main topic:


who here, just a show of hands, does not live close to any fundies?


*raises hand*

There's that one fundie kid but he's only at school and I only see him like once per month.

I have never known of any r/l fundies despite the major religious movements at my uni from time-to-time.

I may actually go to the next Christian lunch debate because I then get to see if any are fundies that I should avoid, plus I get a free lunch.

Hey, Wong, another silly and common phrase used in public "no such thing as a free lunch" has been shotdown.

[Lagmonster]

Sounds like they're just being assholes, or feeding off each other.

That explains it fairly well. I haven't had to deal with them in years. Like I said, you can't get along with people who come at you with the agenda of converting you and of damning you if you don't listen. The problem lies in the fact that a moderate can mumble that they believe in God already or what have you and be largely ignored, with the fundie believing that his side is that much stronger numerically. An out-and-out atheist has it much harder, since he can be viewed as a theological enemy by the fundie, sometimes moreso if they are of a different race or culture.

That said, the coworkers aren't dumb enough to approach people during work hours, but shit hits it if you share an elevator with one of them at 5:00.

My solution has always been to be artificially polite if I'm in the hall or in their work area, but let the verbal scuffles happen freely if they're in MY work area. Because in that case, any manager will naturally accept my explanation that the fundie was harassing ME, not the other way around (which is true in any case, but it's important to be sure the right impression is generated).

I've been through that, too. In the end, it boils down to what the fundie thinks of you and how aggressive they are. I often realize that I could have avoided strife altogether in the past merely by telling one lie off the bat. But, I have this terribly overt problem of saying what I think. I started my career young enough to be arrogant that way; as I've gotten older, I've learned to carve out a state of cold war with most fundies I have to interact with, and that's as much as I am usually willing to give them of my time and attention.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I am leaving a provision in my will. Should the mrmon church try to do a "Baptism for the Dead" and put my name in their records post-mortum, after I hving my entire life slammed the door in a rude fashion in the faces of their missionaries...My family will sue the mormon church for all they are worth, and donate 50% of the award to a secular charity, or the university where i earned my degrees

Don't worry. They only do the work for the dead if someone like a family member submits your name directly to them. As far as I know, they don't go hunting through obituaries looking for "new potential"

I have mormon family members, and friends that would do it

[XPViking]

It's funny, tonight I was talking with a co worker (a guy I only work with about once per month) that happens to be a fundie. We were talking about some funeral services that we recently worked, and the subject of a Jehovah's Witness service came up. He mentioned that he had to work one for a Hispanic family, and he then told me "I'm glad it was in Spanish because I don't have to listen to their lies."

I got to thinking. How arrogant are these people? He either assumes that I am a fellow fundie, or he doesn't care and thinks that I need to know how he feels. For all he knows, I could have been a Jehovah's Witness! I'm sure if he knew I am an atheist, however, he would think less of me than the JW's!

Anyone have any fundie stories?

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see the fundie in Superman's example as pushing his belief system here. What I do see is the fundie making an inappropriate remark about a Hispanic family. From that, Superman concludes that fundies are arrogant.

So Superman, let me ask you a couple questions:

1) Is this particular fundie pushing his beliefs on you?
2) How can you conclude that one fundie's ignorant remark to mean that all fundies are arrogant? I realize you didn't say all but I think when you use the phrase "these people" you are referring to the group.
3) I take it to mean that when you say "anyone else have any fundie stories" you are asking not only for people to share their experiences with fundies but possible advice on how to deal with them, correct? (Hence the thread title: How would you deal with a fundie you have to work with?)

XPViking


edit: I should revise my one statement here. I see the fundie making an ignorant remark about a Jehovah's Witness service for a Hispanic family. I hope my general intent was understood.

[Superman]

XP, I grew up in a fundie household. My father was a fundie preacher. I know fundies pretty damn well, and yes, the majority of the Bible thumpers are VERY arrogant.

1) Yes, he is pushing his beliefs on me. He knows of my anthropological background and often tries to tell me that archaeology supports the supernatural claims made by the Bible. He tells me that only the evangelical types of Christians will go to Heaven. He invites me to church constantly. Yes, he is pushing his bullshit.

2) I tried not to make a generalized statement. I should say that the fundies in MY experience have been very arrogant. Hell, the belief that only they are going to avoid hell sort of makes them arrogant by default.

3) Yes, correct.

This man uses his religion to justify his hate for non orthodox Christian groups. When I was growing up in the church, I was literally taught to hate Mormons, for example.

[XPViking]

1) Yes, he is pushing his beliefs on me. He knows of my anthropological background and often tries to tell me that archaeology supports the supernatural claims made by the Bible. He tells me that only the evangelical types of Christians will go to Heaven. He invites me to church constantly. Yes, he is pushing his bullshit.

Fair enough. Because until you elaborated, it sure looked like from my point of view that the particular fundie made an ignorant remark and nothing more. As well, it seems that you've also received your answer already in this thread.

XPViking

[Superman]

Ah, thanks for the constructive criticism. I'll try to be more clear in the future.