The pillaging of Iraq

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The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Thanas »

Salon
Iraq foots the bill for its own destruction

When considering the premise of reparation being paid for the Iraq War it would be natural to assume that the party to whom such payments would be made would be the Iraqi civilian population, the ordinary people who suffered the brunt of the devastation from the fighting. Fought on the false pretence of capturing Saddam Hussein’s nonexistent weapons of mass destruction, the war resulted in massive indiscriminate suffering for Iraqi civilians which continues to this day. Estimates of the number of dead and wounded range from the hundreds of thousands into the millions, and additional millions of refugees remain been forcibly separated from their homes, livelihoods and families. Billions of dollars in reparations are indeed being paid for the Iraq War, but not to Iraqis who lost loved ones or property as a result of the conflict, and who, despite their nation’s oil wealth, are still suffering the effects of an utterly destroyed economy. "Reparations payments" are being made by Iraq to Americans and others for the suffering which those parties experienced as a result of the past two decades of conflict with Iraq.

Iraq today is a shattered society still picking up the pieces after decades of war and crippling sanctions. Prior to its conflict with the United States, the Iraqi healthcare and education systems were the envy of the Middle East, and despite the brutalities and crimes of the Ba’ath regime there still managed to exist a thriving middle class of ordinary Iraqis, something conspicuously absent from today’s "free Iraq." In light of the continued suffering of Iraqi civilians, the agreement by the al-Maliki government to pay enormous sums of money to the people who destroyed the country is unconscionable and further discredits the absurd claim that the invasion was fought to "liberate" the Iraqi people.

In addition to making hundreds of millions of dollars in reparation payments to the United States, Iraq has been paying similarly huge sums to corporations whose business suffered as a result of the actions of Saddam Hussein. While millions of ordinary Iraqis continue to lack even reliable access to drinking water, their free and representative government has been paying damages to corporations such as Pepsi, Philip Morris and Sheraton; ostensibly for the terrible hardships their shareholders endured due to the disruption in the business environment resulting from the Gulf War. When viewed against the backdrop of massive privatization of Iraqi natural resources, the image that takes shape is that of corporate pillaging of a destroyed country made possible by military force.

Despite the billions of dollars already paid in damages to foreign countries and corporations additional billions are still being sought and are directly threatening funds set aside for the rebuilding of the country; something which 8 years after the invasion has yet to occur for the vast majority of Iraqis.
While politicians and media figures in the U.S. make provocative calls for Iraq to "pay back" the United States for the costs incurred in giving Iraq the beautiful gift of democracy, it is worth noting that Iraq is indeed already being pillaged of its resources to the detriment of its long suffering civilian population.

The perverse notion that an utterly destroyed country must pay reparations to the parties who maliciously planned and facilitated its destruction is the grim reality today for the people Iraq.
That there are those who actually bemoan the lack of Iraqi gratitude for the invasion of their country and who still cling to the pathetic notion that the unfathomable devastation they unleashed upon Iraqi civilians was some sort of "liberation" speaks powerfully to the capacity for human self-delusion. The systematic destruction and pillaging of Iraq is a war crime for which none of its perpetrators have yet been held to account (though history often takes time to be fully written), and of which the extraction of reparation payments is but one component.

More links with additional info in the OP on salon.com.


So in addition to having its cultural sites looted and/or destroyed, Iraq is also going to become a debt slave to the USA. Bringing democracy = 19th century-style colonization.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Bernkastel »

But they have democracy! Democracy!

Seriously, the knowledge that this is happening makes me feel utterly ashamed. :cry:
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Bluewolf »

The sad fact of the matter is that a lot the colonialist behavior of the past has never really gone away. It's been redressed behind a veil of buzzwords and faux justifications. It becomes even more painful when the US waxes about the freedom and justice it claims to champion. As long as people buy into such falsehoods over imperialist acts like this or simply don't care, then it will never change.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Iroscato »

So the supposed great champion of freedom and democracy has sunk this low. After invading a relatively innocent country under the guise of protecting the interests of people of both countries, the US forces commence the slaughter of Iraqi civilians by the million. And after its reason for invading is revealed to be utter, total bullshit fabrication, they simply shrug their shoulders, and dig their heels in even more. Hey, they have a new reason to stay now; they can rebuild the very country they destroyed!
I have had it with faceless bureaucrats deciding to declare war and commit murder in our name. I have had it with the endless lies and greasy fact-dodging of politicians and military brass. I've had it with the constant, ceaseless, boggle-eyed mania of the media and government that demands you be in constant fear of terrorism, whilst diverting your attention away from the fact that little by little they are sapping your freedom and your rights in the name of those very things.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Utsanomiko »

This sort of modern imperialism is actually quite common for the US and Europe, as many nations in South America and Africa are paying billions of dollars a year for the cost of granting them sovereignty and converting their economies over to single-resource exportation during the 20th century.

Countries where many people live on a dollar a day are paying $1000 per capita just for the privilege to sell cattle cheaply to companies who want to sell $0.99 hamburgers to people who eat five a day.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Eulogy »

So instead of winning hearts and minds, the American fascists have made even more enemies and increaed the risk of terrorism.

It's like Shroom said, you do not fuck people over and not expect them to fuck back. And with America rotting and oil dwindling - and nuclear not being made available - the US will either have enemies waiting for revenge or their "friends" will be too mired in their own problems to help the US.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Block »

Eulogy wrote:So instead of winning hearts and minds, the American fascists have made even more enemies and increaed the risk of terrorism.

It's like Shroom said, you do not fuck people over and not expect them to fuck back. And with America rotting and oil dwindling - and nuclear not being made available - the US will either have enemies waiting for revenge or their "friends" will be too mired in their own problems to help the US.
Oh shut the fuck up. Seriously. This +1 hating on america crap on these boards is so obnoxious.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Eulogy »

Block wrote:
Eulogy wrote:So instead of winning hearts and minds, the American fascists have made even more enemies and increaed the risk of terrorism.

It's like Shroom said, you do not fuck people over and not expect them to fuck back. And with America rotting and oil dwindling - and nuclear not being made available - the US will either have enemies waiting for revenge or their "friends" will be too mired in their own problems to help the US.
Oh shut the fuck up. Seriously. This +1 hating on america crap on these boards is so obnoxious.
Well, maybe America deserves it? If you have a grievance about us calling Uncle Sam for what he is, then make your own damn topic.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Iroscato »

Block wrote:
Eulogy wrote:So instead of winning hearts and minds, the American fascists have made even more enemies and increaed the risk of terrorism.

It's like Shroom said, you do not fuck people over and not expect them to fuck back. And with America rotting and oil dwindling - and nuclear not being made available - the US will either have enemies waiting for revenge or their "friends" will be too mired in their own problems to help the US.
Oh shut the fuck up. Seriously. This +1 hating on america crap on these boards is so obnoxious.
Well, to my knowledge no country has deserved it so very much in the last few decades.
Oh, and people have the right to express disgust at a scandal of this level, so why don't you try shutting the fuck up, eh?
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Block »

Chimaera wrote:
Block wrote:
Eulogy wrote:So instead of winning hearts and minds, the American fascists have made even more enemies and increaed the risk of terrorism.

It's like Shroom said, you do not fuck people over and not expect them to fuck back. And with America rotting and oil dwindling - and nuclear not being made available - the US will either have enemies waiting for revenge or their "friends" will be too mired in their own problems to help the US.
Oh shut the fuck up. Seriously. This +1 hating on america crap on these boards is so obnoxious.
Well, to my knowledge no country has deserved it so very much in the last few decades.
Oh, and people have the right to express disgust at a scandal of this level, so why don't you try shutting the fuck up, eh?
Really? Do some research on the Central African Republic. Look at what happened in Rwanda. Here's a hint, both involve France heavily. China's internal repression. There's a whole bunch of places I can think of that are just as bad. I have no complaint about Thanas' posting, but unless you have something to add to it, some sort of facts, I'm pretty sure there's even rules against posting like the one I complained about.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Darth Wong »

Ah yes, the "America isn't guilty because other countries are bad too" argument.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Stofsk »

Well, what kind of reaction do you want people to have? What's being talked about in the OP is pretty disgusting. Even if Eulogy laid it on a bit thick with the 'fascists' line, what America has done to Iraq is pretty unconscionable.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

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Stofsk wrote:Well, what kind of reaction do you want people to have? What's being talked about in the OP is pretty disgusting. Even if Eulogy laid it on a bit thick with the 'fascists' line, what America has done to Iraq is pretty unconscionable.
Americans who respond to criticism of their foreign policy by whining about "America-bashing" are just whiners. Imagine if you criticized an individual for his behaviour and he responded with "You just don't like me! You always hated me!"

The problem is that Americans have whined about "anti-Americanism" for so long that they've grown to think of it as perfectly normal and mature, and they don't realize how childish and whiny it sounds to others.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Stark »

Ironically, people who argue around France's behaviour (social policies, internal racism, even without international conduct) know that people who say 'you hate France wah' are generally the right-wing nationalists.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Block »

Darth Wong wrote:Ah yes, the "America isn't guilty because other countries are bad too" argument.
That's not what I'm arguing at all. I'm not happy with what happened, it was never a legitimate war in my mind, and that they're being forced to pay us back for invading them is rediculous. That being said, the immediate pile on of lolmurikasuckslol, is obnoxious and doesn't contribute to discussion, it just looks like people trying to gsin the acceptence of others here.
There ARE legitimate topics for discussion in there, such as the fact that from what I had heard the debts incurred by the Baathists were supposed to be forgiven to encourage growth in Iraq, but is this being done because Iraq had been showing a budget surplus for a couple of years, so they could afford to repay those debts? Also, the article says foreign corporations are claiming damages from the past 2 decades, considering US businesses have been restricted from operating in Iraq, who are they? If it's a US company, why aren't they being prosecuted for violating a UN embargo? If it's a foreign one, same deal?
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Iroscato »

OK assho- sorry, Block, you critiscise me and others for apparently not contributing to the thread, yet your first post on here was one line long, and that was just to bitch and tell someone to 'shut the fuck up.' So er, yeah, fuck you.

I am perfectly aware of other countries internal repressions and disgraceful treatment of their citizens and that of other countries. What really got my blood boiling was this is America, who make a huge noise about being the land of the free and home of the blah blah blah. I thought that they were supposed to be civilised, and on many, many occasions this has been shown to be a laughable lie. But there's just something about this that really rubbed me up the wrong way, something to do with the fact that THEY ARE MAKING A COUNTRY PAY FOR BEING ILLEGALLY INVADED, MAYBE? Did you not read that small detail when you posted your first message? Jesus...

EDIT: I see as I was writing this, you acknowledged the situation is indeed ridiculous, so I'll apologise for that particular point, but my other points stand.
Last edited by Iroscato on 2011-08-16 08:35pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by open_sketchbook »

Imperialist powers have always looted the countries they conquer. The only difference now is we do it with corporate structuring and legal "justification" instead of just breaking into the castle, stealing everything shiny, pulling the teeth out of the dead, and raping all the women. Though I have no doubt that a lot of that was done in Iraq as well.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

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Block wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Ah yes, the "America isn't guilty because other countries are bad too" argument.
That's not what I'm arguing at all. I'm not happy with what happened, it was never a legitimate war in my mind, and that they're being forced to pay us back for invading them is rediculous. That being said, the immediate pile on of lolmurikasuckslol, is obnoxious and doesn't contribute to discussion, it just looks like people trying to gsin the acceptence of others here.
We have a rule against useless +1 posts already, and in fact, that rule is quite unusual. Most places have absolutely no rules about that sort of thing, and many places even seem to encourage it, so complaining that these boards are particularly bad about +1 postings is ridiculous. It's quite obvious that you're just whining about "America hating".
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Block »

Darth Wong wrote:
Block wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Ah yes, the "America isn't guilty because other countries are bad too" argument.
That's not what I'm arguing at all. I'm not happy with what happened, it was never a legitimate war in my mind, and that they're being forced to pay us back for invading them is rediculous. That being said, the immediate pile on of lolmurikasuckslol, is obnoxious and doesn't contribute to discussion, it just looks like people trying to gsin the acceptence of others here.
We have a rule against useless +1 posts already, and in fact, that rule is quite unusual. Most places have absolutely no rules about that sort of thing, and many places even seem to encourage it, so complaining that these boards are particularly bad about +1 postings is ridiculous. It's quite obvious that you're just whining about "America hating".
My complaint is specifically threads about the US, where that rule seems to be not enforced, if you disagree, that's fine, it's your opinion, however I think if you read the posts in this thread, they're a good example of my point.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

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Block wrote:My complaint is specifically threads about the US, where that rule seems to be not enforced, if you disagree, that's fine, it's your opinion, however I think if you read the posts in this thread, they're a good example of my point.
Your own initial post being the best example of the point you are trying to make, of course. I count 18 words, all of which encouraging someone to stop talking. Please, stop being such an enormous hypocrite. Perhaps other people's posts aren't terribly progressive and contributory, but at least we were on topic.
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Darth Wong »

Block wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:We have a rule against useless +1 posts already, and in fact, that rule is quite unusual. Most places have absolutely no rules about that sort of thing, and many places even seem to encourage it, so complaining that these boards are particularly bad about +1 postings is ridiculous. It's quite obvious that you're just whining about "America hating".
My complaint is specifically threads about the US, where that rule seems to be not enforced, if you disagree, that's fine, it's your opinion, however I think if you read the posts in this thread, they're a good example of my point.
No they aren't. In fact, your posts and any posts related to them have by far the least to say about the actual subject of this thread. This thread would be far more on-topic and useful if your post and everything related to it was removed.

As I said, you're obviously a whiner. You perceive that "America bashing" gets a special free pass because you want it to be so. Your idea of contribution to any thread involving anything bad done by America is to jump in and whine about "America bashing". If you had your way, you would hijack every thread about American misdeeds in this manner, so as to distract from American misdeeds and change the subject to "you all hate us!!! Waaaaa!"
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Utsanomiko »

There's always been threads where people chime in to express their personal take on the matter or add to the fire, but really this thread had some pretty reasonable additions or at least genuine reactions before then. It's not like we should expect Eulogy to have pulled out his own links and articles to back up the observation that this behavior hurts America's image. If anything it's bashing the right-wing and not America itself.

Really, what more should have been needed for that observation to not be simple me-tooing?
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by K. A. Pital »

America learns from the masters. After all, Anglo-Saxon culture and the so-called Anglosphere was one of the most successful imperialistic and colonialist projects in the entire world.

When America behaves like this, the true face of New Age imperialism is bare to see.

And people rail on me when I get suspicious about America's motives when it gets into some war in another Whereverstan. Considering Iraq, Guatemala, Indonesia/Timor, Philippines and much, much more America's behaviour as the new colonizer of the XX and early XXI century has been rather atrocious and far from benigh.

There is a grim sense of irony in making one of the poorest wartorn nations to pay "reparations" to the wealthiest nation in the world which invaded them on false pretenses and wrought destruction on an enormous scale. It is a perfect vision of the rich globocrat taking the last dime from a poor hobo whom he just beat consciousless on the street.
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by madd0ct0r »

Can the crap above be exorcised?


followed the link to the origional article, followed the link there in the sentance about the corporations claiming money:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/oc ... aq.comment
Next week, something will happen that will unmask the upside-down morality of the invasion and occupation of Iraq. On October 21, Iraq will pay $200m in war reparations to some of the richest countries and corporations in the world.

If that seems backwards, it's because it is. Iraqis have never been awarded reparations for any of the crimes they suffered under Saddam, or the brutal sanctions regime that claimed the lives of at least half a million people, or the US-led invasion, which the UN secretary general, Kofi Annan, recently called "illegal". Instead, Iraqis are still being forced to pay reparations for crimes committed by their former dictator.

Quite apart from its crushing $125bn sovereign debt, Iraq has paid $18.8bn in reparations stemming from Saddam Hussein's 1990 invasion and occupation of Kuwait. This is not in itself surprising: as a condition of the ceasefire that ended the 1991 Gulf war, Saddam agreed to pay damages stemming from the invasion. More than 50 countries have made claims, with most of the money awarded to Kuwait. What is surprising is that even after Saddam was overthrown, the payments from Iraq have continued.

Since Saddam was toppled in April, Iraq has paid out $1.8bn in reparations to the United Nations Compensation Commission (UNCC), the Geneva-based quasi tribunal that assesses claims and disburses awards. Of those payments, $37m have gone to Britain and $32.8m have gone to the United States. That's right: in the past 18 months, Iraq's occupiers have collected $69.8m in reparation payments from the desperate people they have been occupying. But it gets worse: the vast majority of those payments, 78%, have gone to multinational corporations, according to statistics on the UNCC website.

Away from media scrutiny, this has been going on for years. Of course there are many legitimate claims for losses that have come before the UNCC: payments have gone to Kuwaitis who have lost loved ones, limbs, and property to Saddam's forces. But much larger awards have gone to corporations: of the total amount the UNCC has awarded in Gulf war reparations, $21.5bn has gone to the oil industry alone. Jean-Claude Aimé, the UN diplomat who headed the UNCC until December 2000, publicly questioned the practice. "This is the first time as far as I know that the UN is engaged in retrieving lost corporate assets and profits," he told the Wall Street Journal in 1997, and then mused: "I often wonder at the correctness of that."

But the UNCC's corporate handouts only accelerated. Here is a small sample of who has been getting "reparation" awards from Iraq: Halliburton ($18m), Bechtel ($7m), Mobil ($2.3m), Shell ($1.6m), Nestlé ($2.6m), Pepsi ($3.8m), Philip Morris ($1.3m), Sheraton ($11m), Kentucky Fried Chicken ($321,000) and Toys R Us ($189,449). In the vast majority of cases, these corporations did not claim that Saddam's forces damaged their property in Kuwait - only that they "lost profits" or, in the case of American Express, experienced a "decline in business" because of the invasion and occupation of Kuwait. One of the biggest winners has been Texaco, which was awarded $505m in 1999. According to a UNCC spokesperson, only 12% of that reparation award has been paid, which means hundreds of millions more will have to come out of the coffers of post-Saddam Iraq.

The fact that Iraqis have been paying reparations to their occupiers is all the more shocking in the context of how little these countries have actually spent on aid in Iraq. Despite the $18.4bn of US tax dollars allocated for Iraq's reconstruction, the Washington Post estimates that only $29m has been spent on water, sanitation, health, roads, bridges, and public safety combined. And in July (the latest figure available), the Department of Defence estimated that only $4m had been spent compensating Iraqis who had been injured, or who lost family members or property as a direct result of the occupation - a fraction of what the US has collected from Iraq in reparations since its occupation began.

For years there have been complaints about the UNCC being used as a slush fund for multinationals and rich oil emirates - a backdoor way for corporations to collect the money they were prevented from making as a result of the sanctions against Iraq. During the Saddam years, these concerns received little attention, for obvious reasons.

But now Saddam is gone and the slush fund survives. And every dollar sent to Geneva is a dollar not spent on humanitarian aid and reconstruction Iraq. Furthermore, if post-Saddam Iraq had not been forced to pay these reparations, it could have avoided the $437m emergency loan that the International Monetary Fund approved on September 29.

With all the talk of forgiving Iraq's debts, the country is actually being pushed deeper into the hole, forced to borrow money from the IMF, and to accept all of the conditions and restrictions that come along with those loans. The UNCC, meanwhile, continues to assess claims and make new awards: $377m worth of new claims were awarded last month alone.

Fortunately, there is a simple way to put an end to these grotesque corporate subsidies. According to United Nations security council resolution 687, which created the reparations programme, payments from Iraq must take into account "the requirements of the people of Iraq, Iraq's payment capacity, and the needs of the Iraqi economy". If a single one of these three issues were genuinely taken into account, the security council would vote to put an end to these payouts tomorrow.

That is the demand of Jubilee Iraq, a debt relief organisation based in London. Reparations are owed to the victims of Saddam Hussein, the group argues - both in Iraq and in Kuwait. But the people of Iraq, who were themselves Saddam's primary victims, should not be paying them. Instead, reparations should be the responsibility of the governments that loaned billions to Saddam, knowing the money was being spent on weapons so he could wage war on his neighbours and his own people. "If justice, and not power, prevailed in international affairs, then Saddam's creditors would be paying reparations to Kuwait as well as far greater reparations to the Iraqi people," says Justin Alexander, coordinator of Jubilee Iraq.

Right now precisely the opposite is happening: instead of flowing into Iraq, reparations are flowing out. It's time for the tide to turn.

·Naomi Klein is the author of No Logo, and Fences and Windows
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Zixinus
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Re: The pillaging of Iraq

Post by Zixinus »

I'm not actually that surprised about this. There had to be a point in staying in Iraq after all and why a nation already in debt is spending ridiculous amount of money for keeping a military presence there. And there is always someone taking advantage of someone that can't defend itself.
It's pretty disheartening to see this though. I would guess that many of the corporations involved didn't even care but just saw this as a free "get money here" thing.
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