This was the reason Turkey told the US to forget it?

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-03 01:41am

'Serves rude America right'
By Suna Erdem

NESRIN ALOGLU, a bank clerk, is delighted that Turkey’s parliament has thrown Washington’s plans for an attack on Iraq into disarray by blocking the deployment of US troops. “Serves them right. Now they can apologise.”

Apologise, she said, for the way in which the United States so rudely took Turkey for granted and issued threats, insults and ultimatums when it did not get what it wanted.

In rejecting Washington’s demands, the recession-hit country is turning its back on US aid worth more than $20 billion (£13 billion).

But Turks still support the parliament’s decision. “At least it’s cleared Turkey’s name and dispelled the image abroad that Turkey can be bought,” Zafer Dorttas, a 27-year-old customs official, said.

Ordinary Turks were incensed by US media references to haggling in a carpet shop and by what they saw as insulting American behaviour.

The final straw came when a series of American newspaper cartoons were broadcast. They depicted Turkey as a money-grabbing belly dancer, or a prostitute bargaining for the price of its favours.

“I can’t tell you how awful I felt when I saw the cartoons,” Ayse Akin, a student, said. “They were so deeply insulting. America can stick its money and its troops up its backside.”

LOL!

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-03 01:43am

I seriously doubt that's why there parliament rejected it, but it might be contributing to there public opinion.

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2003-03-03 01:45am

They rejuectd it because something like 70 percent ofthe population doesnt want war. and like all good politicians they want to keep their seats.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-03-03 01:56am

I think its more like 90% of the Turks are opposed to a US attack. Kinda hard for the politicians to ignore that.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-03 02:06am

I wonder how they will react when they find out that they really really need that money.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-03-03 02:16am

neoolong wrote:I wonder how they will react when they find out that they really really need that money.

We could use the money to. At some point you either decide to stick to your values or not. I would not be surprised if they accept the economic hardship and stand by there wishes.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-03 02:22am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:
neoolong wrote:I wonder how they will react when they find out that they really really need that money.
We could use the money to. At some point you either decide to stick to your values or not. I would not be surprised if they accept the economic hardship and stand by there wishes.

Yes, we could. I wonder how appropriations work to see if money marked for foreign aid can be marked for something else.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-03-03 02:32am

neoolong wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote:
neoolong wrote:I wonder how they will react when they find out that they really really need that money.
We could use the money to. At some point you either decide to stick to your values or not. I would not be surprised if they accept the economic hardship and stand by there wishes.
Yes, we could. I wonder how appropriations work to see if money marked for foreign aid can be marked for something else.

I dunno, I bet its money we dont really even have, ie borrowed, so it probably would dissappear. But Im just guessing. It would be nice to give it to local police/fire departments around the country.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-03-03 02:35am

There's also the thing with the Kurds.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-03 02:36am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:
I dunno, I bet its money we dont really even have, ie borrowed, so it probably would dissappear. But Im just guessing. It would be nice to give it to local police/fire departments around the country.

Most of the aid package to Turkey was just the US securing loans for the country.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-03-03 05:46am

Yes they money is already gone, if we did not give it to the Turks, then SK, or Isreal or some other country gets a bigger paycheck

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-03-03 12:23pm

Wait until after the war and Turkey wants to have a say in how the Kurdish situation in northern Iraq is settled. We'll see who crams what up whos backside then.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-03 12:26pm

RedImperator wrote:Wait until after the war and Turkey wants to have a say in how the Kurdish situation in northern Iraq is settled. We'll see who crams what up whos backside then.

I feel like letting the kurds have their own state at this point, fuck Turkey.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-03-03 12:29pm

neoolong wrote:I wonder how they will react when they find out that they really really need that money.

According to the news this morning, their econemy is on the verge of a collapse. However, I do applude their convictions and I don't want my goverment to strong arm allies. That would be bad in the long run, we should pack up our shit and send it somewhere else to kick Iraq's ass. There should be not repercussions for Turkey (other than they don't get the $ that was part of the deal) but no favors either.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-03-03 12:30pm

MKSheppard wrote:
RedImperator wrote:Wait until after the war and Turkey wants to have a say in how the Kurdish situation in northern Iraq is settled. We'll see who crams what up whos backside then.
I feel like letting the kurds have their own state at this point, fuck Turkey.

Turkey won't let this happen.

I think they'll use the opportunity the war brings to invade northern Iraq to secure the Turkmenish minority there, and stomp out the Kurds.
The Turkish Army already increased their presence in the border region.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-03 12:32pm

Dahak wrote: Turkey won't let this happen.

Dahak, Turkey just in effect told the US to "fuck off", so I don't have
any compunctions about forcing a Kurdish State created out of
northern Iraq onto them....

And if they try to extinguish it, well, then they can meet the
USAF/USN/USMC/USA, fresh off their asskicking of Iraq...

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-03-03 12:33pm

Dahak wrote:I think they'll use the opportunity the war brings to invade northern Iraq to secure the Turkmenish minority there, and stomp out the Kurds.
The Turkish Army already increased their presence in the border region.

That's the thing. If they had let us use their bases, they would have been allowed into Iraq and been given a say in the postwar settlement. Now, in addition to the aid package, they've thrown that away. Turkey is going to get to sit and watch while the United States runs the show now. They've thrown away their chance to secure their own interests for "principle".

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-03-03 12:34pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Dahak wrote: Turkey won't let this happen.
Dahak, Turkey just in effect told the US to "fuck off", so I don't have
any compunctions about forcing a Kurdish State created out of
northern Iraq onto them....

And if they try to extinguish it, well, then they can meet the
USAF/USN/USMC/USA, fresh off their asskicking of Iraq...

True, their recent parlimentry vote can be interperted as "We don't want to deal with the situation" and therefore they should not have much to say in the aftermath of the 'war'.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-03-03 12:39pm

RedImperator wrote:
Dahak wrote:I think they'll use the opportunity the war brings to invade northern Iraq to secure the Turkmenish minority there, and stomp out the Kurds.
The Turkish Army already increased their presence in the border region.
That's the thing. If they had let us use their bases, they would have been allowed into Iraq and been given a say in the postwar settlement. Now, in addition to the aid package, they've thrown that away. Turkey is going to get to sit and watch while the United States runs the show now. They've thrown away their chance to secure their own interests for "principle".

Saying "No" to the USA doesn't negate the possibility to grab their own part of Iraq. After all, they would go in to "secure and protect" Turkmenish people from Iraqi reprisals.
They don't need exactly a go-go from the USA.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-03-03 12:43pm

Saying "No" to the USA doesn't negate the possibility to grab their own part of Iraq. After all, they would go in to "secure and protect" Turkmenish people from Iraqi reprisals.
They don't need exactly a go-go from the USA

They do if US troops are actively patroling the boarders of Iraq after the 'war' to prevent oppertunism from other countries who didn't want in on the dirty part.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-03 12:45pm

Dahak wrote: Saying "No" to the USA doesn't negate the possibility to grab their own part of Iraq. After all, they would go in to "secure and protect" Turkmenish people from Iraqi reprisals.
They don't need exactly a go-go from the USA.

Can we say "horrendous massacre" followed by the words "AH-64D, M1A2,
AC-130U"?

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-03-03 12:54pm

Knife wrote:
Saying "No" to the USA doesn't negate the possibility to grab their own part of Iraq. After all, they would go in to "secure and protect" Turkmenish people from Iraqi reprisals.
They don't need exactly a go-go from the USA
They do if US troops are actively patroling the boarders of Iraq after the 'war' to prevent oppertunism from other countries who didn't want in on the dirty part.

But they won't need to wait for "after the war". They just need to state facts.

And MKSheppard: What should the USA "massacre" Turkey for? Grabbing their own piece of the cake? Turkey can always use humanitarian reasons for it. And isn't this war not all for humanitarian reasons, to help the poor Iraqi populace? </sarcasm>

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-03-03 01:04pm

Dahak wrote:But they won't need to wait for "after the war". They just need to state facts.

Dahak, when the world's only superpower tells you to get the fuck out and stay the fuck out of a country that it's just defeated and occupied with an army that can't be defeated in the field by anything this side of a full scale tactical nuclear bombardment, you get out and hope the door doesn't hit you in the ass on the way. Turkey's going to sit with its thumb up its ass and like it, because they blew their chance to get in on the fun. And the Turks are the only ones we won't immediately bomb if they come over the border.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-03-03 01:07pm

RedImperator wrote:
Dahak wrote:But they won't need to wait for "after the war". They just need to state facts.
Dahak, when the world's only superpower tells you to get the fuck out and stay the fuck out of a country that it's just defeated and occupied with an army that can't be defeated in the field by anything this side of a full scale tactical nuclear bombardment, you get out and hope the door doesn't hit you in the ass on the way. Turkey's going to sit with its thumb up its ass and like it, because they blew their chance to get in on the fun. And the Turks are the only ones we won't immediately bomb if they come over the border.

If the worlds only superpower is trying as hard as it is now to retain some shreds of international credibility, it would be best advised to not slap Turkey on the fingers if they did.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-03-03 01:14pm

Turkey knows how the game is played. Pissing off a superpower has consequences even if there is no "slap on the fingers". The Iraq operation postwar is going to be a case of good old fashioned imperialist power politics (which still have their place from time to time). Trust me, the US isn't going to let Turkey fiddle-fuck with its grand scheme for the mideast.