Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

Post by Xisiqomelir »

Gold spot, of course, soars in response.

Bloomberg
Chavez Emptying Bank of England Vault as Venezuela Brings Back Gold Hoard
By Daniel Cancel and Nathan Crooks - Aug 18, 2011

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez ordered the central bank to repatriate $11 billion of gold reserves held in developed nations’ institutions such as the Bank of England as prices for the metal rise to a record.

Venezuela, which holds 211 tons of its 365 tons of gold reserves in U.S., European, Canadian and Swiss banks, will progressively return the bars to its central bank’s vault, Chavez said yesterday. JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM), Barclays Plc (BARC), and Standard Chartered Plc (STAN) also hold Venezuelan gold, he said.

“We’ve held 99 tons of gold at the Bank of England since 1980. I agree with bringing that home,” Chavez said yesterday on state television. “It’s a healthy decision.”

Chavez, whose government depends on oil for 95 percent of its export revenue, is looking to diversify Venezuela’s cash reserves from U.S. and European banks to include investments in emerging markets including Brazil, China, India, Russia and South Africa, central bank President Nelson Merentes said yesterday. The world’s 15th-largest holder of gold is bringing back its gold after a 28 percent rally in the price this year.

Venezuela’s reserves stood at $28.6 billion on Aug. 16. Finance Minister Jorge Giordani said that the weakening U.S. dollar, a near-default by the U.S. government and the European sovereign debt crisis threaten Venezuela’s savings and they will be more secure at home and in “allied” countries.
‘Green Light’

Chavez, speaking by phone on state television last night, said he signed the document yesterday authorizing the transfer of the gold reserves. “I said, ‘I give my absolute approval to this idea’,” Chavez said. “I gave it the green light.”

The central bank already has about $7 billion of gold in its vaults. Of the country’s liquid reserves, which amount to about $6.3 billion, 59 percent are held in Switzerland, 18 percent in the U.K and about 11 percent in the U.S., according to a government report.

Venezuela received a capital gain of $9.3 billion on its gold holdings since 2009 on rising prices, according to a Bank of America Merrill Lynch report today.

The country’s share of gold reserves is almost eight times the region’s 8.3 percent average and leaves Venezuela vulnerable to sharp declines in prices while holding illiquid assets, the report said.

The government may move to repatriate reserves before arbitration case rulings to avoid a so-called attachment risk that could freeze international assets, Boris Segura, a New York-based strategist at Nomura Securities, said in a research note.

The repatriation and diversification of reserves may also cloud transparency of government holdings, which would be a negative for the country’s credit, he said.
Lack of Transparency

“We sense that Venezuelan debt prices already incorporate a sizeable ‘lack of transparency’ premium,” Segura said. “However, looking at the possible geopolitical signals that these proposed policies communicate, we fear that Venezuelan bond prices may suffer.”

In all, Venezuela has 365.8 metric tons of gold reserves, according to the World Gold Council.

Chavez’s decision could have “worrisome” implications because of less data transparency and the threat that the gold stock could be used for politically motivated spending before next year’s presidential elections, RBS Securities Inc. said.

“It is clear that the motivation appears mostly to fit a political agenda to align with strategic political partners and retaliate against the recent U.S. sanctions on fears that assets might at some point be frozen,” RBS Latin American analysts Felipe Hernandez and Siobhan Morden said in a note.
Borrowing Costs

Venezuela has the highest borrowing costs among major emerging-market countries. The extra yield investors demand to own Venezuelan government bonds instead of U.S. Treasuries rose 50 basis points, 0.50 percentage point, to 1,239 basis points today at 4:35 p.m. in New York, according to JPMorgan & Chase Co.’s EMBI+.

Yields on the government’s benchmark 9.25 percent bonds maturing in 2027 rose 60 basis points to 14.14 percent at 4:35 p.m. in New York, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The price fell 2.88 cents on the dollar to 69.25 cents.

Chavez also said yesterday that he’s preparing a decree to nationalize the gold industry to halt illegal mining and dedicate local production to building up reserves.
Mining Arbitration

Of 17 arbitration cases pending against Venezuela in the World Bank’s International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes, at least three of them are over mining ventures, including Crystallex International Corp. (KRY), a Canadian gold producer whose Las Cristinas mine was taken over by the government in February.

Gold Reserve Inc. (GRZ), a Spokane, Washington-based mining company, is seeking $2.1 billion in damages after its Las Brisas gold and copper project was seized in May 2008.

“Today’s announcement is not surprising,” Doug Belander, Gold Reserve president, said yesterday in an interview. “We believe that their objective all along was to take over the entire industry.”

The South American country, in an effort to boost stalled production and take advantage of rising prices, last year relaxed restrictions on gold exports to allow some companies and joint ventures with the government to send as much as 50 percent of their output abroad.
Rusoro’s Operations

Rusoro Mining Ltd. (RML), a Vancouver-based mining company, is the last publicly traded gold mining company operating in Venezuela. The company’s stock rose 12 percent to 14 Canadian cents as of 4:35 p.m. in Toronto, after yesterday plunging 17 percent to its lowest in almost a decade.

Rusoro Chief Executive Officer Andre Agapov said today that it hadn’t received any indications from the Venezuelan government that its projects in the country would be affected.

“We believe the government’s announcement is targeted toward the many illegal mining operations in Bolivar state,” Agapov said in a statement.

Venezuela produces 11 metric tons of gold a year, and illegal miners extract an additional 10 to 11 tons a year, Chavez said in May.

Venezuela’s National Guard first seized control of the Las Cristinas mine, which has reserves of about 27 million ounces, in November 2001 from Canada’s Vanessa Ventures.

Gold futures for December delivery rose $32.90, or 1.8 percent, to a record settlement of $1,824.10 an ounce on the Comex in New York today.

“If there isn’t enough room to store the gold in the central bank vaults I can lend you the basement of the Miraflores presidential palace,” Chavez said.

To contact the reporters on this story: Daniel Cancel in Caracas at dcancel@bloomberg.net; Nathan Crooks in Caracas at ncrooks@bloomberg.net.

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Dale Crofts at dcrofts@bloomberg.net
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

Post by Lord Zentei »

I wouldn't be surprised if he manages to squander the better part of it, leaving his country in even worse shape, and himself even more popular among the poor fools who keep voting for him. What a mess.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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Chavez, whose government depends on oil for 95 percent of its export revenue, is looking to diversify Venezuela’s cash reserves from U.S. and European banks to include investments in emerging markets including Brazil, China, India, Russia and South Africa, central bank President Nelson Merentes said yesterday. The world’s 15th-largest holder of gold is bringing back its gold after a 28 percent rally in the price this year.
I'm surprised he didn't do this sooner. With austerity and default (or near default) being the trend in the US and Europe, why not pull out and look for better places to invest? If transnational companies can do it, maybe governments should, too.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

Post by K. A. Pital »

I don't see a problem with Chavez' action. It might even benefit Venezuela if gold prices continue to soar. You can go trading actual gold here and there, and maybe invest into other places than the developed economies - a sound idea, considering everyone sings about "developing economies being the next big thing" amidst the crisis.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

Post by Starglider »

So should I take this opportunity to sell all my evil, barbaric gold while the market is on this clearly unsustainable high? Honestly I would, but I can't decide whether to invest the proceeds all in Greek bonds to help save the Eurozone, or donate it all to the re-elect Obama campaign to defend the US against the horrible prospect of spending cuts...
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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Starglider wrote:So should I take this opportunity to sell all my evil, barbaric gold while the market is on this clearly unsustainable high? Honestly I would, but I can't decide whether to invest the proceeds all in Greek bonds to help save the Eurozone, or donate it all to the re-elect Obama campaign to defend the US against the horrible prospect of spending cuts...
Hahahahhah, man you crack me up sometimes Starglider. By all means hold onto your gold until the US elections get closer because chances are the insanity is just going to get that much worse until someone wins another term. Besides Chavez's move might push other countries into doing the same.

I hate to say it but gold has been the best ten year investment in existence from 350$ an ounce just before 9/11 to 1850$ an ounce today. A 500% return on your investment is pretty damn awesome.

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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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Mr Bean wrote: I hate to say it but gold has been the best ten year investment in existence from 350$ an ounce just before 9/11 to 1850$ an ounce today. A 500% return on your investment is pretty damn awesome.
Nah, Apple stock was a much better investment. It was trading at below $7 in the same time period, now it is up around $350 a share. That's a return of 3800% compared to only a 300% increase in gold.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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The Kernel wrote:
Nah, Apple stock was a much better investment. It was trading at below $7 in the same time period, now it is up around $350 a share. That's a return of 3800% compared to only a 300% increase in gold.
But how many shares of Apple could you have purchased before your buying started spiking the price? There's not infinite amount of Apple shares out there, buying more than a thousand and your going to have to start buying from people who want to hold them and spiking the price since buying forty million dollars worth of Apple shares would result in all sorts of interesting market fluctuations.

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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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Mr Bean wrote:But how many shares of Apple could you have purchased before your buying started spiking the price? There's not infinite amount of Apple shares out there, buying more than a thousand and your going to have to start buying from people who want to hold them and spiking the price since buying forty million dollars worth of Apple shares would result in all sorts of interesting market fluctuations.
This isn't really a concern for individual investors, unless you are a billionarie (in which case you probably have a crack wealth management team ready to slice the trade and exploit dark pools anyway).

Apple was a great buy in 2004, at which point it was clear that they were undervalued had major growth potential in consumer electronics. Shame I was spending all my savings on AI research at the time :) Personally I wouldn't have bought them at the 1998 low, as that was three years before the iPod or OS X, and it was highly speculative whether they would break out of the rut they were in.

Right now I would not buy any equities at all, way too much economic uncertainty. If QE3 goes ahead then another run-up will be pretty much locked in, so taking advantage of the pullback to expand your equities holding would be reasonable. However the risks of another banking liquidity crunch and/or sovereign debt blow-up (and consequent flight to low-risk assets) are so high now that I would want to hang on to physical PMs regardless.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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Mr Bean wrote: But how many shares of Apple could you have purchased before your buying started spiking the price? There's not infinite amount of Apple shares out there, buying more than a thousand and your going to have to start buying from people who want to hold them and spiking the price since buying forty million dollars worth of Apple shares would result in all sorts of interesting market fluctuations.
As an individual you are not going to significantly spike the price of the stock through purchasing, most medium to large cap companies have their stock prices moved by institutional investors (read: mutual funds).

In any case you could have invested ten million dollars in Apple stock in 2001 (which spread out over a few months wouldn't have done jack shit to the stock price) and you would be a billionaire a few times over. Even better, you'd end up paying the long-term capital gains tax rate which means you'd be paying lower taxes than a guy who spent those years working at McDonalds.

EDIT: And it's hardly just Apple as some wonder company, you could have done just as well buying nVidia stock in the same timeframe (best to unload that guy in 2007 though) or any number of other high growth companies.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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Starglider wrote: Right now I would not buy any equities at all, way too much economic uncertainty. If QE3 goes ahead then another run-up will be pretty much locked in, so taking advantage of the pullback to expand your equities holding would be reasonable. However the risks of another banking liquidity crunch and/or sovereign debt blow-up (and consequent flight to low-risk assets) are so high now that I would want to hang on to physical PMs regardless.
Hah, it's idiocy like this that means then people start unloading their portfolios at the bottom of the market and then end up selling them to people like me who know that during times like this the best thing you can do is INCREASE your investment into equities. You can't sell high if you don't buy low.

Sure, these investments may not pay off for 5-10 years but anyone who invests in stocks with the assumption that they can make that investment liquid in under 5 years is a moron who doesn't know jack shit about investing.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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The Kernel wrote:Hah, it's idiocy like this that means then people start unloading their portfolios at the bottom of the market
Idiocy like what? I just said that buying equities at the bottom of a dip is sensible, but that I don't think we're at the bottom of a dip right now.
Sure, these investments may not pay off for 5-10 years but anyone who invests in stocks with the assumption that they can make that investment liquid in under 5 years is a moron who doesn't know jack shit about investing.
Mmm yeah, all day traders, hedge funds and prop desks are morons, any money they make is just luck I'm sure.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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Starglider wrote: Idiocy like what? I just said that buying equities at the bottom of a dip is sensible, but that I don't think we're at the bottom of a dip right now.
Everyone thinks they can gauge the market, but it's all speculation. The key to getting a decent return on such things is to mostly ignore the market in the short term and start diversifying as you reach closer to the date at which you need to start making withdraws.
Mmm yeah, all day traders, hedge funds and prop desks are morons, any money they make is just luck I'm sure.
Actually they are complete morons, they just happen to make money because they people who invest in them are stupider than they are. Investment companies make money via exorbitant management fees, not necessarily because they are decent performers.

Sure SOME people have managed to do well in the short term via what is essentially market manipulation. But those people have access to resources that you don't, and if you want to buy into their shenanigans you are going to end up paying insane management fees.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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The Kernel wrote:Everyone thinks they can gauge the market, but it's all speculation. The key to getting a decent return on such things is to mostly ignore the market in the short term and start diversifying as you reach closer to the date at which you need to start making withdraws.
This attitude frankly dates from the 1990s, when you could reasonably say 'stocks always go up over the long term' and not look like an idiot. The inflation-adjusted SP 500 peaked in 2000; over 11 years later, it is down 41% (and that's if you trust the official inflation rate). This is why so many pension funds have massive shortfalls and a great many boomers expecting a generous retirement find their assets to be inadequate. The combination of spiralling energy costs, massive and growing first world sovereign debt, unsustainable income equality, demographic decline, massive amounts of toxic property-backed investments still in the system etc etc make betting on long term growth riskier now than at any point in the last 60 years.
Mmm yeah, all day traders, hedge funds and prop desks are morons, any money they make is just luck I'm sure.
Actually they are complete morons, they just happen to make money because they people who invest in them are stupider than they are.
Did I mention mutual funds? No I did not, because they are indeed useless and as a result have consistently experienced massive outflows since the 2008 crash. Conventional value investing is an endangered species in a world of unceasing and escalating market intervention by incompetent central banks and politicians, combined with rampant frontrunning and price manipulation by banks and hedge funds. Fortunately however many of those interventions are blatantly telegraphed and easy to exploit; i.e. QE1 & 2 was an open invitation for anyone to make money in almost any basket of risk assets.
But those people have access to resources that you don't, and if you want to buy into their shenanigans you are going to end up paying insane management fees.
'Expert networks' and other barely legal insider trading certainly is worth the fees, on average, as evidenced by both the posted returns and the rapid growth of this kind of wealth management.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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Starglider wrote: This attitude frankly dates from the 1990s, when you could reasonably say 'stocks always go up over the long term' and not look like an idiot. The inflation-adjusted SP 500 peaked in 2000; over 11 years later, it is down 41% (and that's if you trust the official inflation rate). This is why so many pension funds have massive shortfalls and a great many boomers expecting a generous retirement find their assets to be inadequate. The combination of spiralling energy costs, massive and growing first world sovereign debt, unsustainable income equality, demographic decline, massive amounts of toxic property-backed investments still in the system etc etc make betting on long term growth riskier now than at any point in the last 60 years.
I am well aware that the general trend of assuming 7.5% growth without trying tied to indexes of the market is outmoded to a degree. However, comparing a bubble period of the market to a downturn is not very analytical--I could make the same case that if you'd invested in 2008 you'd be seeing a 50% return on your index investment right now.

The fact of the matter is that the global market for good and services is still growing. The latest market crisis will require a correction, but it's largely irrelevant when looking 10 years out. And yes I'm very well aware that Japanese investors were probably saying the same thing 20 years ago, but it's a bit early to be claiming that the entire world economy is going to see a lost decade or two when there is so much development going on. In addition despite all of the mess with regards to sovereign debt, private companies are still seeing growth in revenues in spite or all of these problems. There's obviously consumer demand there.

And may I remind you people saying "this downturn is different!" is exactly why so many people get out of the market at the worst possible times? We've seen this sort of thing before and I see nothing to indicate that worldwide economic growth is going to be an outmoded concept anytime soon. There are simply too many developing countries with people finally able to afford washing machines for that to happen.
Did I mention mutual funds? No I did not, because they are indeed useless and as a result have consistently experienced massive outflows since the 2008 crash. Conventional value investing is an endangered species in a world of unceasing and escalating market intervention by incompetent central banks and politicians. Fortunately however many of those interventions are blatantly telegraphed and easy to exploit; i.e. QE1 & 2 was an open invitation for anyone to make money in almost any risk asset.
All the more reason to simply diversify across a broad range of equities. I'm not sure what exactly I said that you are disagreeing with.
'Expert networks' and other barely legal insider trading certainly is worth the fees, on average, as evidenced by both the posted returns and the rapid growth of this kind of wealth management.
Largely irrelevant unless you have a LOT of capital to make it worth their time to take you on. And even then you aren't shielded from a lot of risk given how these companies tend to crash in a matter of days taking all of their investors with them. Remember Bear Sterns and Lehman?
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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The Kernel wrote:However, comparing a bubble period of the market to a downturn is not very analytical--I could make the same case that if you'd invested in 2008 you'd be seeing a 50% return on your index investment right now.
I already made that case; a majort part of the 50% was due to liquidity injections and would not have been possible without artificial support of both banks and the property market. Most of the rest relied on the pullback in oil prices that won't be sustained as the supply situation tightens.
The fact of the matter is that the global market for good and services is still growing.
And is still driven by debt expansion at a time when the capacity for sovereign, local government, bank and personal debt are all approaching breaking point.
And yes I'm very well aware that Japanese investors were probably saying the same thing 20 years ago, but it's a bit early to be claiming that the entire world economy is going to see a lost decade or two when there is so much development going on.
Firstly, emerging market development only helps if you are invested in emerging market assets. Are you advocating capital flight to EMs (if you are, at least you've got plenty of company)? Secondly, the conditions that caused the Japanese situation - indefinite propping up of bad banks, high sovereign debt, high youth unemployment and demographic decline - are now spreading through nearly every first world country. Finally, if you think 40% decline over eleven years isn't enough to through doubt on the 'long term, stocks always go up' wisdom, then what is it going to take for you to conceed? If we crash back to the 2008 low in two years time, sure it will be a dip buying opportunity for young people looking at 2030, but will it be enough for you to admitt that people waiting since 1999 for an opportunity to 'sell high' were being foolish?
In addition despite all of the mess with regards to sovereign debt, private companies are still seeing growth in revenues in spite or all of these problems. There's obviously consumer demand there.
Revenue growth looks a lot less impressive when you average over a reasonable period and adjust for inflation, and it looks downright anemic when you allow for the crash in the USDX over the last couple of years of QE. Like so much central bank intervention this is a short term uptick at the cost of inevitable inflation as hedges expire and price adjustments trickle down through the supply chain. The uptick in P/E ratios was driven as much by cost cutting than revenue growth, and finally raw demand growth is fundamentally bullish only for EM assets anyway. US companies currently manage to extract a lot of revenue from emerging markets, but the more foreign competitors (with a fundamentally lower cost base) clamber up the value chain the harder that is going to get.
And may I remind you people saying "this downturn is different!" is exactly why so many people get out of the market at the worst possible times? We've seen this sort of thing before
We have never seen a credit crisis on this scale before. We got a taste of it in 2008; just a couple of bank failures were enough to trigger a massive crash before central banks and governments started bailing out everything in sight. We have never seen a global energy crunch before either; peak oil production in just the US was enough to be a major contributor to the 70s slide, now that's going global.
I see nothing to indicate that worldwide economic growth is going to be an outmoded concept anytime soon.
On a sufficiently long time scale (50 years) I am also an optimist about economic growth; I'm a pessemist about existential risk on those timescales but that's effectively an unrelated issue. You are saying that timescales of 1 to 2 years (i.e. following a major rally) are useless and timescales of 10 to 20 years are reasonable, but that only works for the traditional business cycle, driven by investment, inventory and money velocity. In practice we observe secular market cycles due to systemic (e.g. debt overload), demographic and political issues in the 30 year range, which overwhelm the effects of the business cycle particularly at crisis points. For example if you invested in stocks in the late 60s you would not realise a significant capital gain until the late 90s. You would still have made money through reinvestment of dividends, but then the late 90s stock appreciation dogma you subscribe to doesn't believe companies should pay dividends!
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

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Very Basic Question - if the Venezuelan gold being repatriated is Venezuelan government property anyway, aside from (presumably) paying foreign banks some kind of fees to store it, what is the practical difference (barring Goldfinger-esque raids or foreign gov'ts' freezing of Venezuelan assets, for some reason) between Venezuelan gold being located in a vault on foreign soil, vs the same gold being located in a vault in Venezuela?

Is there more of a dimension to this than Venezuela making a political statement?
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

Post by Lord Baal »

The gold is probably going to be stoled and they will resell it to another countries/markets while it's still high. Next year is election's year so I would say, Chavez will use like 50% of it to impulse his race for reelection (via bribe, presents and half ass street repairs and whatnot) in a hope to win, while the other 50% is going to be divided between him and his hungry cockroaches of his cabinet, so even if they lose (despite owning the electoral council) they can simply get the heck out of here will plenty of money and properties on foreign countries, all in a excellent bullishit movement that will make every one stupid enough layperson think: "Oh, he is bringing in OUR gold! Now our economy is safer, I'll vote for him again as soon I finish this line of cocaine..." This despite the huge inflation and our ever decreasing acquisitive power.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

Post by White Haven »

...Or maybe Carmen Sandiego will show up and steal it all as an encore performance for stealing Lord Baal's literacy. :lol:

On a more serious note, I wonder how much luck Chavez is having trying to find someone to insure the huge gold shipments he's trying to set up. I'd heard a piece on NPR last week speculating on the difficulties of doing so, but nothing since.
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

Post by Lord Baal »

White Haven wrote:...Or maybe Carmen Sandiego will show up and steal it all as an encore performance for stealing Lord Baal's literacy. :lol:
Phase it more slow brother.... That was supposed to mean what?? I know I have some orthographic errors on the past post that I would gladly fix. But I can't because the edit function is not allowed for some reason.

On the insurance issue, I haven't found a great deal. They are being really hermetic with it and actually there's a lot more info in foreign news papers (on line) than on the local ones.
Last edited by Lord Baal on 2011-09-01 03:31pm, edited 2 times in total.
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K. A. Pital
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Re: Chavez begins repatriating all Venezuelan bullion

Post by K. A. Pital »

That is supposed to mean you made too many errors in your post and nothing more than that.
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