A Grey Knights Justicar in Horror Situations

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

Wasn't sure where to put this, decided SF was just as good as any.

So, Q decides to have some fun. He takes a Grey Knights Justicar from the unremitting Hell-universe that is Warhammer 40K and pits him in the following situations taken from horror-movies/games:

1. Taking the place of the Point Man in the first F.E.A.R game.

2. Facing Jason Vorhees from the Friday the Thirteenth movies.

3. Facing Freddy Krueger from the Nightmare on Elm Street movies.

4. Facing Voldemort in the cemetery scene of Goblet of Fire, instead of Harry.

5. In Silent Hill from the game series of the same name.

6. Facing Pennywise from Stephen King's IT.

The Grey Knight retains all his gear and abilities (Nemesis Force Weapon, etc.)

Members of SDN, what are your thoughts on how the Grey Knight will fare in each scenario?

[Simon_Jester]

Pretty well, as a rule. Grey Knights are rare and operate on a very large scale; killing the supernatural menace that threatens to consume an entire planet is... not so routine as to be all in a day's work, but hardly unusual within a Grey Knight's career.

You need something with heavier supernatural artillery than is found in most horror movies to give one a seriously bad day.

[Elheru Aran]

Don't know about FEAR; if it's your standard "walk through the dark and shoot shit that charges you" horror type game, that' basically the Grey Knights' walk in the park kind of scenario. Same goes for Silent Hill.

Jason is nothing too exceptional when you come down to it-- he's basically a hack-and-slash artist who's got a gift for moving pretty stealthily, but in an one-on-one against a power-armoured superhuman with psychic powers? Yeah, I think he'll come off the worse in this one.

Freddy, now, that would be interesting; is this in the 'real world' or in Freddy's dream realm? Either way, I think the Justiciar has enough experience dealing with mindfucks along Freddy's line of work to be able to deal with him one way or another.

Voldemort... now that's a more serious opponent. Depends on whether the Aegis armour or soul-binding helps protect him against HP'verse magic; if it does, all he has to do is close and try to smear Voldemort. If it doesn't, his main advantage is his parahuman reflexes and speed, unless Avada Kedavra won't work against his considerably stronger than human average body.

Pennywise... uh... not sure? Four kids (five? six?) were able to kick his ass.

Grey Knights are basically Ghostbusters on serious mad-crazy steroids; honestly there's not too much that can stand up against them one-on-one, except something along the lines of Titans or Pax Swiss Guard from Hyperion...

[Black Admiral]

Is this a pre- or post-Matt Ward Grey Knight? 'cause, if it's the latter, I'm going for "Dies on general principle".

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

Is this a pre- or post-Matt Ward Grey Knight? 'cause, if it's the latter, I'm going for "Dies on general principle".

Pre-Matt Ward.

[Kingmaker]

I'm pretty sure that in all of these situations, save maybe Silent Hill, the result is a comically one-sided ass-kicking that ends with the bad guys sprayed all over the walls.

On the other hand, the monsters are born of the character's fears, are they not (I haven't actually played the game). If so, the Grey Knight might find the whole exercise rather boring, what with the "and they shall know no fear" schtick.

Next up, how would Aliens have gone if instead of Colonial Marines, they brought Ultramarines?

[Simon_Jester]

Voldemort... now that's a more serious opponent. Depends on whether the Aegis armour or soul-binding helps protect him against HP'verse magic; if it does, all he has to do is close and try to smear Voldemort. If it doesn't, his main advantage is his parahuman reflexes and speed, unless Avada Kedavra won't work against his considerably stronger than human average body.

Never underestimate the power of a bolter round delivered from a kilometer away, either... Grey Knights don't always do their work up close and personal, it's just more practical against their usual opponents (daemons).

[Shroom Man 777]

I'm pretty sure that in all of these situations, save maybe Silent Hill, the result is a comically one-sided ass-kicking that ends with the bad guys sprayed all over the walls.

On the other hand, the monsters are born of the character's fears, are they not (I haven't actually played the game). If so, the Grey Knight might find the whole exercise rather boring, what with the "and they shall know no fear" schtick.

Next up, how would Aliens have gone if instead of Colonial Marines, they brought Ultramarines?

Some guys just love pitting their favorite shits in lopsided one-sided situations against opponents who'll obviously lose just so they can hear their favorite guys win and get off on that. *cough*ChosenOne*cough*Person5*cough*


Now pit the Grey Knight against Cthulthu, or have a Knight trapped in the Mountains of Madness or in a subway station with a Shoggoth or something. That would be a (slightly) fairer match than Superhuman Soldier Armed With Advanced Killtech versus Masked Machete Murderer Who Drowns In Lake.

A megashark or giant octopus might be able to take a Grey Knight too. A shark several hundred feet long capable of launching itself from the water to bite a passenger plane in the sky, and a giant octopus whose tentacles can crush a nuclear missile submarine. Those would be good horror monsters for the Grey Knight to take on.

Hell, the full sized Blob might be a worthy opponent. As long as the Grey Knight doesn't have any fire extinguishers or cold shit nearby.

[NoXion]

A megashark or giant octopus might be able to take a Grey Knight too. A shark several hundred feet long capable of launching itself from the water to bite a passenger plane in the sky, and a giant octopus whose tentacles can crush a nuclear missile submarine. Those would be good horror monsters for the Grey Knight to take on.

What about a mega-giant sharktopus?

[Ahriman238]

Don't know Silent Hill or FEAR, never played them.

Pennywise goes down like a bitch. Consider he was defeated with a slingshot. There is no more to say, it's sort of like asking how an armored division would fare against a spina bifida ward. Most of these are like that.

Freddy is in real trouble the first time he tries to mess with a 40K psyker, period. How much worse for him, that he's up against one of the most powerful, disciplined, and well-trained psykers of them all, with extensive experience in Mind Wars?

The Grey Knight easily kills Jason, but he comes back for the sequel. The Grey Knight easily kills Jason, he comes back for the sequel. Rinse and repeat. Forever. Then again, this also a standard part of the GK's life, the bad guys they kill fade into the Warp and come back later. This is the same thing, except that Jason is a laughable threat.

The Justicar kills the funny-looking mutant who was trying to take him mano a mano, kills the evil minions who are just hanging back watching until some maybe think to teleport the hell away. Examines strange trophy, picks up trophy. The Justicar is transported to the greatest of blasphemies, a school for aspiring sorcerors, and goes on a murderous rampage that will wipe out the better part of two generations of magical England before he gets taken down. Wizards will tell horror stories around campfires about the strange giant knight forever.

[Black Admiral]

Is this a pre- or post-Matt Ward Grey Knight? 'cause, if it's the latter, I'm going for "Dies on general principle".

Pre-Matt Ward.

Good, no need of ranting then.

Anyway, in those I'm familiar with, the Justicar cleans house, although with scenario 4 it depends a lot on how the Aegis armour and the other defences against psychic attack the Justicar has interact with HPverse magic.

[Purple]

I don't really think that Voldemort would even get a shot off. He is facing a giant super soldier who can read minds, has superhuman reflexes and can crush his opponents with a flick of his mind. I can easily see the guy reaching for his wand only to be blown away there and than and just psychically transformed into pink mist.

[Elheru Aran]

I don't really think that Voldemort would even get a shot off. He is facing a giant super soldier who can read minds, has superhuman reflexes and can crush his opponents with a flick of his mind. I can easily see the guy reaching for his wand only to be blown away there and than and just psychically transformed into pink mist.

Uh, you're actually overestimating the Grey Knight's abilities there a little bit.

They do ALL have at least some psychic ability, true; however, it's low end for the most part and their powers are most effective when invoked by squads acting together rather by individuals. Justiciars are not on the same level as Space Marine Librarians by a long shot.

The psychic abilities of Grey Knights are mainly notable in that they're turned towards protecting the souls of the Marines from daemonic corruption rather than external manifestations; they don't necessarily have precognition or mind-reading abilities, and while some are no doubt capable of telekinesis, a vanilla Justiciar is more like a standard Marine with special armour and an extra can of whoop-ass.

Now if you put a Librarian or a Captain against Voldemort, then they could very well have precognition, telekinesis or telepathic abilities. A Justiciar is more likely to just do an Indiana Jones and shoot him.

[Black Admiral]

Captain or Veteran Sergeant, you mean (since the Grey Knights don't have Librarians); GK Terminator Sergeants are apparently able to pull off the like of the Holocaust on their own, it just takes an awful lot out of them. Captains can pull off a Holocaust strike while maintaining (from a distance of several miles) a shield keeping an entire city of pissed-off ghosts from killing two guys (Bro Captain Leodegarius does just this in the fourth Ultrasmurfs novel The Killing Ground).

[Simon_Jester]

Now pit the Grey Knight against Cthulthu, or have a Knight trapped in the Mountains of Madness or in a subway station with a Shoggoth or something. That would be a (slightly) fairer match than Superhuman Soldier Armed With Advanced Killtech versus Masked Machete Murderer Who Drowns In Lake.

Yeah, Grey Knight versus Cthulhu is more like a serious challenge. I'd probably give that one to Cthulhu.

[evilsoup]

If I recall correctly, in the original short story Cthulhu was knocked out by an ocean steamer ramming it. A Justicar could probably take out Cthulhu.

[Elheru Aran]

The explanation for that: Cthulhu had just woken up, he wasn't ready. He just needs prep time, see?

Anyway, it depends on your interpretation of the Mythos, but once the big C gets his feet on the ground he's amped up and ready to go...

Black Admiral: I thought there were Librarians in the new GK dex, hence my mentioning them, but my bad... the rest of what you comment, I concur with. Captain probably comes equivalent to a medium to high level Librarian, while a Vet Sgt would correspond to a lower level Librarian-- am I on track there?

[Black Admiral]

Black Admiral: I thought there were Librarians in the new GK dex, hence my mentioning them, but my bad...

There are, but for several reasons I don't consider Matt Ward's take on the GKs as canon. Right at the top of the list is the "Grey Knights murdering Sisters of Battle to use them as blood magic fuel" incident. And in case you think I'm joking;

876.M41 The Bloodtide Returns

Chaos comes to the Basilica of St. Mariel on the world of Van Horne. A statue of the Emperor is accidentally damaged during renovation work of the inner sanctum, disrupting the forgotten stasis-reliquary within. As the ancient prison crumbles to dust, the Bloodthirster Ka'jagga'nath, Lord of Bloodtide, breaks free. At his bellowed command, a tide of gore washes through the vaults, corrupting everything and everyone it touches. The basilica's guardians and priests, so recently counted amongst the Emperor's most virtuous servants, roam the nearby streets seizing hapless citizens to use as blood sacrifices upon the tainted altar. For eight days and nights the orgies of gore continue, each fresh death luring yet more Daemons to the mortal world. Hour by hour, the Bloodtide spreads further and further across Van Horne - it is estimated that the entire planet will be enveloped in a matter of days. On the morning of the ninth day, Sisters of Battle from the Order of the Ebon Chalice assault the basilica. Some Battle Sisters are corrupted on contact with the Bloodtide. Those who endure fight valiantly, but most are slaughtered by the Bloodletters atop the basilica walls. It is only when the Grey Knights' 4th Brotherhood arrives on Van Horne that the Bloodtide is abated.

Needing a talisman of purity to protect against the Bloodtide's taint, the Grey Knights' first act is to turn their blades on the surviving Sisters of Battle. The innocent blood thus spilled is then mixed with blessed oils and used to anoint the Grey Knights' armour and weapons. So shielded, the Grey Knights are able to stride through the goreflood without risk of corruption, and they smash their way into the basilica's heart. A trio of Librarians lead the attack, enunciating the cants of cleansing that repel the Bloodtide wherever they tread. In the end, Ka'jagga'nath is only defeated through the selfless sacrifice of Ordan, Champion of the 4th Brotherhood. Before Ka'jagga'nath's spirit can escaped his ruined body, the Grey Knights are able to cast the Daemon's dark presence back into the Warp, and the psychic backwash banishes the Bloodtide and the Daemons it drew forth.
- Codex: Grey Knights, 5th ed., pg. 15

Emphasis mine. And they didn't even fucking need to do it within context (see: bolded sentence, the which is something that Grey knights do anyway and have in the past had TT rules representing this).

Captain probably comes equivalent to a medium to high level Librarian, while a Vet Sgt would correspond to a lower level Librarian-- am I on track there?

Yeah, that would probably be about right, although given their particular focus Grey Knights probably can't do some of the wackier stuff SM Librarians have in the past.

[RecklessPrudence]

A megashark or giant octopus might be able to take a Grey Knight too. A shark several hundred feet long capable of launching itself from the water to bite a passenger plane in the sky, and a giant octopus whose tentacles can crush a nuclear missile submarine. Those would be good horror monsters for the Grey Knight to take on.

What about a mega-giant sharktopus?

Well, this is how a less-boosted, low-profile power-armoured space marine (hey, he's a marine, in space - it works!) handles a much smaller (only twenty metres long) shark. Nothing on an octopus, but...

Also: my god, man... what the bloody hell has Matt Ward been smoking? Wasn't he the one that did the insane Ultramarine worship in the most recent codex, too? I'm even more glad I got out of the hobby when I did.

Seriously. All they need to do now is completely screw up the Guard...

EDIT: How do you guys reckon a Grey Knight would do on Drop 47? Alternatively, what sort of IoM force would be necessary to capture (not destroy) it, assuming the Adeptus Mechanicus let anyone else play?

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

Also: my god, man... what the bloody hell has Matt Ward been smoking? Wasn't he the one that did the insane Ultramarine worship in the most recent codex, too? I'm even more glad I got out of the hobby when I did.

Seriously. All they need to do now is completely screw up the Guard...

Yes, Ward did the most recent Space MarinesUltramarines codex.

Also, he introduced us to Lord Kaldor Draigo in the Grey Knights Codex - a guy who easily kills daemon primarchs and carves names into their hearts, and while being in the Warp, their home turf, kicks loads of daemon ass, forges a Bloodthirster's axe into a sword with his mind, burns down Nurgle's garden and razes Tzeentch's city, etc. 'Gary Stu' doesn't even begin to describe Kaldor Draigo. And Ward intends us to take him seriously.

[wautd]

Didn't Pennywise and Freddy work on the principle that they can only murder when their target is in fear? Space Marines don't know fear, so I doubt the Grey Knight will even notice them.

[Simon_Jester]

If I recall correctly, in the original short story Cthulhu was knocked out by an ocean steamer ramming it. A Justicar could probably take out Cthulhu.

I doubt it. Cthulhu was temporarily stunned by that, because the stars weren't 'really right.' Cthulhu during a period of activity is a world-ending menace capable of driving everyone on a planet insane and warping the laws of reality.

Which is, yes, about what the Grey Knights are designed and trained to fight... but 40k daemons who operate on that scale are generally a bit more than one Grey Knight would be sent to take on. He'd want some backup.