Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Robots Mess Up Stock Market

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

The Atlantic wrote:Mysterious and possibly nefarious trading algorithms are operating every minute of every day in the nation's stock exchanges.

What they do doesn't show up in Google Finance, let alone in the pages of the Wall Street Journal. No one really knows how they operate or why. But over the past few weeks, Nanex, a data services firm has dragged some of the odder algorithm specimens into the light.

The trading bots visualized in the stock charts in this story aren't doing anything that could be construed to help the market. Unknown entities for unknown reasons are sending thousands of orders a second through the electronic stock exchanges with no intent to actually trade. Often, the buy or sell prices that they are offering are so far from the market price that there's no way they'd ever be part of a trade. The bots sketch out odd patterns with their orders, leaving patterns in the data that are largely invisible to market participants.

In fact, it's hard to figure out exactly what they're up to or gauge their impact. Are they doing something illicit? If so, what? Or do the patterns emerge spontaneously, a kind of mechanical accident? If so, why? No matter what the answers to these questions turn out to be, we're witnessing a market phenomenon that is not easily explained. And it's really bizarre.

It's thanks to Nanex, the data services firm, that we know what their handiwork looks like at all. In the aftermath of the May 6 "flash crash," which saw the Dow plunge nearly 1,000 points in just a few minutes, the company spent weeks digging into their market recordings, replaying the day's trades and trying to understand what happened. Most stock charts show, at best, detail down to the one-minute scale, but Nanex's data shows much finer slices of time. The company's software engineer Jeffrey Donovan stared and stared at the data. He began to think that he could see odd patterns emerge from the numbers. He had a hunch that if he plotted the action around a stock sequentially at the millisecond range, he'd find something. When he tried it, he was blown away by the pattern. He called it "The Knife." This is what he saw:

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"When I pulled up that first chart, we saw 'the knife,' we said, that's certainly algorithmic and that is weird. We continued to refine our software, honing the algorithms we use to find this stuff," Donovan told me. Now that he knows where and how to look, he could spend all day for weeks just picking out these patterns in the market data. The examples that he posts online are just the ones that look the most interesting, but at any given moment, some kind of bot is making moves like this in the stock exchange.

"We probably get 10 stocks in any 10 minutes where we see something like this," Donovan said. "It's happening all the time."

These odd bots don't really make sense within the normal parameters of the high-frequency trading business. High-frequency traders do employ algorithms to look for patterns in the market and exploit them, but their goal is making winning trades, not simply sending quotes into the financial ether.

Here's the way a stock trade is supposed to work: a buyer says they'll pay some amount for 100 shares of a company, a seller makes an ask for slightly more money, and the two of them usually meet in the middle. Perhaps a middle man (no joke intended) helps match buyer and seller and takes a cut. That's the role that a lot of high-frequency traders play: they help make markets work. Regulatory changes over the past several years have extended their usefulness and provided a nice business model for those that can move quickly to provide options for buyers and sellers.

"Under the maker-taker model, market participants that offer to provide, or make, liquidity by posting an order to buy or sell a certain number of shares at a particular price receive a rebate," explained Michael Peltz in a June feature for Institutional Investor. "Those that execute against that order -- that is, take the liquidity -- have to pay a fee. Exchanges earn the difference between the rebate they pay and the fee they charge. The SEC limits taker fees to 0.30 cents a share; rebates tend to be lower for economic reasons, but for high frequency firms trading millions of shares a day, they can make for a pretty good living."

In a sense, they take nickel-and-diming down an order of magnitude or two. The advantage is that their trades are low-risk: they rarely hold positions for very long and any individual stock, future, or currency can't really sink the boat. High-frequency traders have become a target for all kinds of people, but most of them appear to make their money being a little faster and little smarter than their competitors. And if they are playing by the rules, they improve the quality of markets by minuscule amounts trade after trade after trade.

But the algorithms we see at work here are different. They don't serve any function in the market. University of Pennsylvania finance professor, Michael Kearns, a specialist in algorithmic trading, called the patterns "curious," and noted that it wasn't immediately apparent what such order placement strategies might do.

Donovan thinks that the odd algorithms are just a way of introducing noise into the works. Other firms have to deal with that noise, but the originating entity can easily filter it out because they know what they did. Perhaps that gives them an advantage of some milliseconds. In the highly competitive and fast HFT world, where even one's physical proximity to a stock exchange matters, market players could be looking for any advantage.

"They are moving the high-frequency services as close to the exchanges as possible because even the speed of light matters," in such a competitive market, said Stanford finance professor Peter Hansen.

Given Nanex's data, let's say that these algorithms are being run each and every day, just about every minute. Are they really a big deal? Donovan said that quote stuffing or market spoofing played a role in the Flash Crash, but that event appears to have had so many causes and failures that it's nearly impossible to apportion blame. (It is worth noting that European markets are largely protected from a similar event by volatility interruption auctions.)

But already since the May event, Nanex's monitoring turned up another potentially disastrous situation. On July 16 in a quiet hour before the market opened, suddenly they saw a huge spike in bandwidth. When they looked at the data, they found that 84,000 quotes for each of 300 stocks had been made in under 20 seconds.

"This all happened pre-market when volume is low, but if this kind of burst had come in at a time when we were getting hit hardest, I guarantee it would have caused delays in the [central quotation system]," Donovan said. That, in turn, could have become one of those dominoes that always seem to present themselves whenever there is a catastrophic failure of a complex system.

There are ways to prevent quote stuffing, of course, and at least one of the members of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission's Technology Advisory Committee thinks it should be outlawed.

"Algorithms that might be spoofing the market are something that should be made illegal," said John Bates, a former Cambridge professor and the CTO of Progress Software. But he didn't want this presumably negative practice to color the more mundane competitive practices of high-frequency traders.

"There is algorithmic terrorism and then there is reverse engineering, which is probably just part of good business practice," Bates said.

For now, Donovan plans to keep putting out the charts, which he calls "crop circles," of the odd trading algorithms at work. That's an apt name for the visualizations we see of this alien world of bot trading. And it certainly gets at a central mystery surrounding them: if trading firms aren't sending out these orders, how are they getting into the market?

On the quantitative trading forum, Nuclear Phynance, the consensus on the patterns seemed to be that they simply just emerged. They were the result of "a dynamical system that can enter oscillatory/unstable modes of behaviour," as one member put it. If so, what you see here really is just the afterscent of robot traders gliding through the green-on-black darkness of the financial system on their way from one real trade to another.

No matter why the bots end up executing these behaviors, the Nanex charts offer a window onto a kind of market behavior that's fascinating and oddly beautiful. And we may never have seen them, if not for the mildly obsessive behavior of one dedicated nerd.

"Who looks at millisecond charts?" Donovan said. "You'd never see those patterns in any other fashion. The SEC and CFTC certainly weren't."
That's something out of Metal Gear Solid. PATRIOTS. WAR ECONOMY. PROXIES. SNAKE!

Imagine, if a whole fuckton of stock market shit was caused by fucking bots. Algorithmic terrorism! It's so scary because I don't understand what it means!
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:Imagine, if a whole fuckton of stock market shit was caused by fucking bots. Algorithmic terrorism! It's so scary because I don't understand what it means!
Is this really just leaking out into the public consciousness now? HFTs have been causing major disruptions in individual stocks since the mid 2000s. It started impacting some of the commercial AI work I do in 2007. I thought after the major market-wide flash crash in 2010 this stuff was well known.

Clearly another reason why Europe must institute a financial transaction tax, on the DAX and all other Eurozone exchanges. This the only moral thing to do, and there is absolutely no risk of hot money fleeing to less encumbered US and UK markets. :twisted:
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

Post by Hamstray »

I've seen a talk on this, can't remember where. I find it especially interesting how some of these algorithms have the luxury of having lightning fast network connections installed just for them (from Chicago to NY) that highly exceed the bandwidth for all other users.

I don't think it will be long until there will be algorithms who abuse the patterns of the others (given their source code) to make them suicide.
Last edited by Hamstray on 2011-08-20 01:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Hamstray wrote:I've seen a talk on this, can't remember where. I find it especially interesting how some of these algorithms have the luxury of having lightning fast network connections installed just for them (from Chicago to NY) that highly exceed the bandwidth for all other users.
Latency arbitrage is bad enough, but on some exchanges you can simply pay a fee to get market depth information before other market participants. In other words the exchange is making extra revenue selling hedge funds and prop desks a legal almost-risk-free way to skim pension funds.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Hamstray wrote: I don't think it will be long until there will be algorithms who abuse the patterns of the others (given their source code) to make them suicide.
I had lunch with a portfolio manager for a bank and a Federal financial regulator not too long ago, and there was an agreement that the large Financials already do this sort of thing, often manipulating the market to bait out smaller traders then pulling the rug out underneath their feet when they jump in. Then when smaller firms did the same thing, but in reverse, they'd sic the Feds on them.

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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Hamstray wrote:I don't think it will be long until there will be algorithms who abuse the patterns of the others (given their source code) to make them suicide.
It's impossible to get the source code short of outright corporate espionage, and even then these things are red-hot proprietary IP that are kept locked up tightly. There are however various ways to reverse engineer them based on observed trades. AFAIK outright HFT-vs-HFT warfare hasn't happened as much as you might think, at least not yet; it's difficult and risky, so mostly it's just competition over who gets to exploit the dumb money.
Exonerate wrote:I had lunch with a portfolio manager for a bank and a Federal financial regulator not too long ago, and there was an agreement that the large Financials already do this sort of thing, often manipulating the market to bait out smaller traders then pulling the rug out underneath their feet when they jump in. Then when smaller firms did the same thing, but in reverse, they'd sic the Feds on them.
Yes. As I said when Aerieus brought this up, regulators are not the 'good guys'.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Starglider wrote:
Hamstray wrote:I don't think it will be long until there will be algorithms who abuse the patterns of the others (given their source code) to make them suicide.
It's impossible to get the source code short of outright corporate espionage, and even then these things are red-hot proprietary IP that are kept locked up tightly. There are however various ways to reverse engineer them based on observed trades. AFAIK outright HFT-vs-HFT warfare hasn't happened as much as you might think, at least not yet; it's difficult and risky, so mostly it's just competition over who gets to exploit the dumb money.
I'm not surprised by that, since the whole strategy revolves around making zillions of low-margin trades that only gain you a few cents per share. Getting into a smarter-than-thou contest with someone else who does the same strategy strikes me as a great way for both companies to cancel out their own profit margins, because it'd be too much trouble to figure out a strategy to exploit the market that was not itself vulnerable to exploitation by someone else with the same technical base.

It's simple ecology. Hyenas don't survive by preying on jackals- they both go after the herbivores.
Exonerate wrote:I had lunch with a portfolio manager for a bank and a Federal financial regulator not too long ago, and there was an agreement that the large Financials already do this sort of thing, often manipulating the market to bait out smaller traders then pulling the rug out underneath their feet when they jump in. Then when smaller firms did the same thing, but in reverse, they'd sic the Feds on them.
Yes. As I said when Aerieus brought this up, regulators are not the 'good guys'.
True- but how else do you prevent this from becoming a permanent mechanism by which Goldman Sachs can skim pension funds?
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Hamstray wrote:I've seen a talk on this, can't remember where.
Was it this?

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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Starglider wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:Imagine, if a whole fuckton of stock market shit was caused by fucking bots. Algorithmic terrorism! It's so scary because I don't understand what it means!
Is this really just leaking out into the public consciousness now? HFTs have been causing major disruptions in individual stocks since the mid 2000s. It started impacting some of the commercial AI work I do in 2007. I thought after the major market-wide flash crash in 2010 this stuff was well known.

Clearly another reason why Europe must institute a financial transaction tax, on the DAX and all other Eurozone exchanges. This the only moral thing to do, and there is absolutely no risk of hot money fleeing to less encumbered US and UK markets. :twisted:
The article is from August 2010, so it's at least a year in the public consciousness. I've been hearing ripples about the impacts of HFT algorithms on AI in my circle for...four or five years?
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Simon_Jester wrote:True- but how else do you prevent this from becoming a permanent mechanism by which Goldman Sachs can skim pension funds?
Is this a hypothetical question? Investment banks can easily buy off the relevant politicians; even when populist politicians get elected on a 'punish the banks' platform, almost no one understands (or in the US, even reads!) the actual legislation. Lobbyists can thus easily ensure that some 'we are taking tough action' talking points are generated while in fact all special interests are protected. Even if you get over that hurdle, e.g. implementing a transaction tax in the EU, capital flees to less regulated markets. So in practice, the answer is 'you can't'.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Darmalus wrote:Was it this?
Yes, it was that.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Starglider wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:True- but how else do you prevent this from becoming a permanent mechanism by which Goldman Sachs can skim pension funds?
Is this a hypothetical question? Investment banks can easily buy off the relevant politicians; even when populist politicians get elected on a 'punish the banks' platform, almost no one understands (or in the US, even reads!) the actual legislation. Lobbyists can thus easily ensure that some 'we are taking tough action' talking points are generated while in fact all special interests are protected. Even if you get over that hurdle, e.g. implementing a transaction tax in the EU, capital flees to less regulated markets. So in practice, the answer is 'you can't'.
Not every country suffers from regulatory capture. Stop generalizing.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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On another message board I go to which deals with Australian stocks, a lot of falls in SP which are somewhat unexpected are blamed on the "bots." Usually the supposed tell tale sign is that a a) there is a lot of trades in the day b) lot of trades which sell for a lower SP are of small volume.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Starglider wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:True- but how else do you prevent this from becoming a permanent mechanism by which Goldman Sachs can skim pension funds?
Is this a hypothetical question? Investment banks can easily buy off the relevant politicians; even when populist politicians get elected on a 'punish the banks' platform, almost no one understands (or in the US, even reads!) the actual legislation. Lobbyists can thus easily ensure that some 'we are taking tough action' talking points are generated while in fact all special interests are protected. Even if you get over that hurdle, e.g. implementing a transaction tax in the EU, capital flees to less regulated markets. So in practice, the answer is 'you can't'.
Since I've heard answers of the form you just delivered hundreds of times, and can get them from any high schooler with a modicum of political savvy and/or cynicism, I'd much rather hear your answer to the hypothetical question, which might actually be enlightening.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Simon_Jester wrote:Since I've heard answers of the form you just delivered hundreds of times, and can get them from any high schooler with a modicum of political savvy and/or cynicism, I'd much rather hear your answer to the hypothetical question, which might actually be enlightening.
Require all exchange mediated transactions to be implemented as Dutch auctions occuring at one-second intervals, with bids and offers received in the inter-auction interval held in a blind queue until actioned and published in the atomic execution phase. While this is certainly not a panacea for market manipulation, it would kill HFT dead, and contrary to certain propaganda this would not cause any significant shortage of liquidity.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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The massive load of trades before trading day opens looks like it might be a nasty indicator. What better way to hurt the West than to shatter the stock markets by exploiting their physical limitations(The machines processing it all)? But perhaps I'm overacting.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Simon_Jester wrote:True- but how else do you prevent this from becoming a permanent mechanism by which Goldman Sachs can skim pension funds?
Put a small fee on all bids.
Any ordinary transaction wouldn't even notice will this shit would get canned.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Wasn't nefarious trading bots taking down the US economy the first step of a master-plan by a cabal of Japanese businessmen in a Tom Clancey book?
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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Spoonist wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:True- but how else do you prevent this from becoming a permanent mechanism by which Goldman Sachs can skim pension funds?
Put a small fee on all bids.
Any ordinary transaction wouldn't even notice will this shit would get canned.
Well, doing it that way does reduce the margin (and implicitly, increase the risk) of normal transactions by a hair, and the reporting requirements add extra overhead; all things considered I'd rather reform exchange rules to stop this than tax the transactions. Since I'm not trying to screw with the 'normal' operations of the exchange here, just the ones that involve a surefire way to skim a few cents off everyone else's transactions.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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CaptainChewbacca wrote:Wasn't nefarious trading bots taking down the US economy the first step of a master-plan by a cabal of Japanese businessmen in a Tom Clancey book?
Sort of. In Debt of Honor the bot was used to wipe all records of the trades after they caused the prices to crash so everyone knew they had lost something, just not how much, or to whom.
Starglider wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:Since I've heard answers of the form you just delivered hundreds of times, and can get them from any high schooler with a modicum of political savvy and/or cynicism, I'd much rather hear your answer to the hypothetical question, which might actually be enlightening.
Require all exchange mediated transactions to be implemented as Dutch auctions occuring at one-second intervals, with bids and offers received in the inter-auction interval held in a blind queue until actioned and published in the atomic execution phase. While this is certainly not a panacea for market manipulation, it would kill HFT dead, and contrary to certain propaganda this would not cause any significant shortage of liquidity.
Let me see if I have this strait - No one would implement this because if they did then the traders would migrate to other markets, and there is very very little chance of every market enacting such rules, because those who don't get the outflow from those who do.
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Re: Robots Mess Up Stock Market

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TimothyC wrote:Let me see if I have this strait - No one would implement this because if they did then the traders would migrate to other markets
Capital flight is a major issue with a transaction tax, but I don't think it would be as bad with interval auction trades. Some hot money will flow elsewhere, but less so for large markets vs small markets, and over the longer term the total capitalisation of the exchange would probably go up due to being a more secure and transparent market. Although you'd probably see further expansion of dark pools and sidelining of exchanges as a high-commission kiddie pool for retail investors; tough regulation would be needed to constrain this.
and there is very very little chance of every market enacting such rules, because those who don't get the outflow from those who do.
The blocker isn't capital flight, it's loss of revenues for the exchange and the market makers, who survive on spreads and rebates from flow trade (which HFT provides in abundence). The profits are so huge that the few thousand lobbyists and strategic media holdings it takes to make curtailing them politically infeasible is cheap at the price. Unfortunately they don't have to make their pillaging acceptable, they just have to obfuscate it behind walls of jargon, co-opt the more financially aware into thinking they can profit from it (it's not rent-seeking, it's financial innovation!) and focus mass public attention elsewhere (not hard when most people find investment banking so confusing and boring).
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