Doctor Who S32E8, "Let's Kill Hitler" [spoilers]

[NecronLord]

Objective Interim Spoiler Policy: All prior episodes of Doctor Who up to and including this one may be discussed without spoilers. Recent EU publications and upcoming episodes must be spoiler tagged and labelled. Previews (as released on BBC, website, etc) of the next episode are not spoilers, nor is speculation derived from them.

Nothing fancy on the poll this week as I didn't think ahead, and to be honest... that title. What?

[Crazedwraith]

OK, I don't like River. So my feelings on this episode... Yeah not good.

There were some amusing sections but they fail to make up for the disjointed nature of the rest of the episode which mainly seems devoted to explain how the River Song = Time Lord crap makes sense. The reverse aging and using up her remaining regenerations stuff.

Eleven's reactions to the RTD companions was a little... weird but then he's never really been shown to interact with any RTD stuff before and he'd been poisoned already so maybe not.

[Iroscato]

Pretty crap, to honest, the ep was called Let's Kill Hitler, but then er...they spend five seconds actually showing the bastard, then lock him in a cupboard, and forget about Definitely one of the worst episodes so far. Confusing, rushed and messy. Still, series openers are usually weak, so hopefully it'll pick up. I know it wasn't exactly a series opener, but it kind of was

[Sharp-kun]

So Hitler's still in a cupboard at the end? Felt they could have done more with him given that he features in the title, it seemed he was more there for "HITLER LOL!" rather than anything to do with the plot.

The answer to the universe ending question is 42, clearly.

[streetad]

This episode embodies one of the major problems with DW - they never give plots adequate time to develop. Everything is loud and frenetic, with lots of running about and throwaway references, then they cram an hour's worth of actual plot into about five minutes. There are good ideas in there and the frustrating thing is you can see the skeleton of a much better show underneath.

Having said that I did enjoy it so have given it a 3.

[spooky spice]

I thought it was great fun

I like River, and it's been interesting to see her life unfolding.

I wonder was there some purpose to her wanting to kill Hitler? She could have chosen anyone in history...

[Starglider]

It was a mess, but at least it was interesting.

[evilsoup]

The poll is lacking. It needs a 0/5 option. Terrible episode.

At first I liked River, then I tolerated her. I thought people were over-reacting with all the hate towards her; but this episode has made me loathe her. 'Oh here's a five-minute flashback sequence introducing a character that has never been mentioned before and she's called Melody GEEZ I BET NOBODY WILL SEE THAT ONE COMING FROM HALF A CONTINENT AWAY'. I knew she was going to be River before her name was mentioned; who else but Moffat's personal wank-fantasy would pull a gun on the Doctor in such a smug manner?

Hitler added nothing (except for a comedy German accent). Actually, no, Rory was awesome (as always) when he punched out Hitler; and I guess his presence was necessary to set up the retarded robot villain. On the subject of the villain, I thought they were going to do something interesting when Amy turned off the safety armbands, in that they were going to kill off that friendly bridge guy along with the asshole captain (which could have fed nicely into the 'oh noes teh Doctor turns his companions into weapins' thing from Journey's End, which they seemed to deliberately reference with the wanktastical voice-recognition hologram shit): but no, they pussied out and had the whole crew transmat away.

Did anyone feel any actual suspense over the Doctor's death? To be fair, I didn't predict that they were going to undo it with that PARTICULAR infinitely lame gimmick, but I knew they were going to use one. And River magically knows how to fly the TARDIS? Would it have killed them to have had a short scene with the Doctor saying 'okay, now doohic the thingumabob, no THE THINGAMABOB, not the whatchumacallit!'?

Fuck me. Steven Moffat, you have fallen far.

[Lost Soal]

And River magically knows how to fly the TARDIS? Would it have killed them to have had a short scene with the Doctor saying 'okay, now doohic the thingumabob, no THE THINGAMABOB, not the whatchumacallit!'?

Fuck me. Steven Moffat, you have fallen far.

No, River knows how to fly because the TARDIS taught her, which also explains her line last series when she said she was taught "by the very best". Who better than the TARDIS herself.

[evilsoup]

Yes, but they didn't fucking show it! A scene of the Doctor half-teaching her how to fly the thing could've been actually entertaining (unlike all the non-Rory bits of this episode), but instead they went for a throwaway line referencing that Neil Gaiman wankfest.

[The Romulan Republic]

Going to agree with what others are saying: rushed, confusing, mostly bullshit. Rory was cool because he can't not be cool. Evil River was interesting but they rushed through her development as a character. 2/5 and that's being generous.

Moffat's really lost his touch as a writer, I think.

[Jaepheth]

So...

Does this episode explain why Hitler didn't invade Britain and instead of targeting airfields and strategic targets kept bombing London with planes and V2s? He knew the real threat was London's police boxes?

[Soontir C'boath]

Giving this episode a three and that's being nice. Getting sick of the Doctor "dying". It is not good drama, it's cringe-worthy garbage.

[Broomstick]

I didn't like this episode much - too contrived, too many things thrown into the mix, too much rushing around - really, NO opportunity to develop the plot. It was just something thrown together to explain some loose ends, and on top of that would make zero sense to anyone who wasn't up on at least this season. I was disappointed.

[FaxModem1]

Rory, as always, was awesome.

While I enjoyed the Amy realizing Rory was really into her, I didn't like the fact that we didn't know about Mel until now. If she had been in a few previous episodes, it would have been nice.

The idea of a Time Justice department going after past criminals, I liked, and would like to see more of. Too bad they're probably one off 'villains'.

I watched Schindler's List less than two days ago, so I was really hoping for a lot more River kills Nazis carnage.

So all in all, it balanced out and became a 3/5 in my eyes.

[Revy]

Note to Silence: If your ubber anti-Doctor weapon/assassin falls in love with the Doctor, wants to marry him and sacrifices her super powers to save his life ... you may have just fucked up somewhere along the line. Go back to the drawing board and try again.

Seriously, as far as being an anti-Doctor war winning weapon, River doesn't just fail, she manages to go beyond failure and accomplish the exact opposite of her intended purpose. Given that we know the Silence can implant autosuggestions strong enough to control the entire human race, whatever method they employed to brainwash River into being the Doctor's enemy was obviously lacking.

I was cheering the timecops on when they said they wanted to give River hell and kill her. Somehow I doubt Moffat intended his viewers to be rooting for them. At least George Lucas scaled back on Jar Jar when people complained. Are we just not complaining loudly enough for him to hear? Because if he's willing to give us less River shit I'm willing to raise my voice.

What a waste of Hitler. And WWII Germany. We finally get a time travel classic, and it gets thrown in the cupboard and forgotten about in favour of my least favourite character. Hooray. Oh, and anyone want to explain how River managed to get a hold of time lord killing lip balm whilst trapped on Earth and still have it working fine after she regenerated? Actually, never mind, I don't care.

One last thing: Stop pretending you're going to kill the Doctor. No one is buying it, it doesn't create drama, knock it off already.

[Alkaloid]

Are we just not complaining loudly enough for him to hear? Because if he's willing to give us less River shit I'm willing to raise my voice.

Oh, he hears it all right. It's just he think the reason people don't like her is because he hasn't made her awesome enough yet.

What makes it really frustrating is that it's a great concept for a character, just badly executed. I don't think I have seen a single character in all of television be so useless and act so smug. Honest to god, Gilligan was more competent than she is.

That said, I now have a great idea for a spinoff series where rory gets trapped in 1939 due to a time travel mishap, so he teams up with Indiana Jones to fight the Nazis.

[FaxModem1]

Okay, this one I have to hear. How is Gilligan more competent than River Song?

And honestly, I still do not get all the River Song hate. I personally find her fun, not as much in this episode, as she was in Terminator mode.

Anyone else notice that River called Rory 'Mr. Perfect'?

[mr friendly guy]

I gave it 2 out of 5. River is becoming Moffat's Mary Sue, hence my enjoyment is somewhat dependent on whether I like River. Which I don't. If I liked the character, I might have given some leeway into her Mary Suishness (is there such a word?). Anyway, if the pay off at the end of the series is good, it might salvage the season. I am afraid even though some of the episodes are arguably stand alone ones in their own right, they have to be viewed in the whole context of the season. Even if a single episode on its own appears poor, if the season finale is good - that is all the mysteries, loose ends are tied neatly together, then this episode may warrant a better score (since this is an episode used to reveal numerous twists - ie it confirms River is supposed to kill the Doctor in the future, reveals that the Silence is not a species but a religion etc).

If the pay off isn't that great at the end, I may elect not to buy this season on DVD, just like how I didn't buy the Tennant serials, and it seems the only DW DVDs I buy is from the classic series.

EDIT - I am not particularly outraged that despite being called Lets Kill Hitler they only spent a few moments dealing with Hitler, because I don't find Nazi and time travel stories particularly interesting. Its been done to death in the DW EU anyway. I think the title is a great example of one of the better "fake outs", on part with National Geographics "Was Darwin Wrong" title. Its just to get viewers to go WTF is this and watch it.

[El Moose Monstero]

2 or 3. It's becoming difficult to judge the episodes because I'm getting used to (but not liking) the way Moffat writes. This episode was actually pretty bog standard when you get right down to it. There was yet another massive time jump at the start of the episode, which gives Moffat free reign to crowbar whatever he wants into the plot, then 15 minutes of hurried set up to get to the scene he wants to write, then 10 minutes of decent charactery sort of stuff, then a hurried resolution.

I don't like River, but I actually found her more interesting in evil mode than she's ever been as previously. I think its a shame that they've partially deprogrammed her and that Spoiler

we know that we're not getting her again till seasons end

, as it would have been good if all the dates she keeps talking about in her diary and we've assumed were romantic encounters were actually attempts by her to kill him over the course of a few more episodes.

I did quite like the fact that the Doctor whispered what was presumably his name to tell River (which makes sense given that she said 'I'm sure she knows' - as in 'that's a bit of an obvious thing to tell someone'), so that the timeline as of silence in the library was sustained. This is also good as it means Moffat is not retconning his original continuity after the universe reboot.

[DarkSilver]

What a waste of Hitler. And WWII Germany. We finally get a time travel classic, and it gets thrown in the cupboard and forgotten about in favour of my least favourite character. Hooray. Oh, and anyone want to explain how River managed to get a hold of time lord killing lip balm whilst trapped on Earth and still have it working fine after she regenerated? Actually, never mind, I don't care.

Too late, I'm going to explain it anyway. She didn't have the lipstick on when she regenerated. Remember, she went to "weigh herself" briefly, and then to "check it all out" in another room, while Amy, Rory and the Doctor where in some disbelief, thus giving her the chance to put the poisoned lipstick on out of their LOS.

Issue resolved.


I gave it a 3...It's a mediocre episode, full of the issue Moffat seems to be guilty of, to much stuff going on in one episode. I was amused with the Hitler stuff at the very beggining, and while I'm not a hater of River song, I'm thinking Melody was redeemed way to quickly in this. I'm hoping the later episodes will help resolve some of the mixed feelings of this one.

[The Guid]

I gave it a 5/5 for a few reasons:

1 - I was willing to believe that we had got it wrong on when the Doctor died because Moffat has fucked with us enough before to fully be willing to fuck with us again to the tune of "well now you're double confused."

2 - I like River Song. Why? Because every time she's on screen she pulls some awesome shit. Pretty much like a lot of the people the Doctor hangs around with.

3 - Rory punched Hitler in the face. IN THE FACE!

4 - I, unlike geniuses out there that you are, didn't know what was going to happen in all these situations. If you say you called it earlier, then fine, well done you.

[Ahriman238]

I'll admit to enjoying the part immediatly post-regen where she pulls a gun, and the Doctor already emptied it. She pulls a banana, because the doctor switched the it for the other gun. She pulls a knife- sonic screwdriver. She goes for the gun he swapped with a banana, he has the clip. That was hilarious and showed off some of the Doctor's better traits.

I swear though, they ripped the poisoned/drugged lipstick trick off of Firefly. How sad to see the Doctor brought low by the same trick once used on Mal Reynolds. And the robot person crewed by tiny men from Meet Dave, which was probably ripped off something else.

He asks the TARDIS for one person whose life he hasn't screwed up, and it shows him Amy, possibly the one person MOST messed up by meeting him? The hell?

[DarkSilver]

No, the TARDIS showed him Amelia, not Amy. yes, i know Amy is just Amelia grown up, but it's been shown before that there is a distinction between the two, at least in the Doctor's mind.

[lordofchange13]

The only reason i could tolerate the pill of crap that was this episode, is that it had Rory punching out Nazi's.