Portable Energy Device that can power a home

[Rabid]

Quick question : Is it relatively windy where you are ? If so, you could always try to set up a quick and dirty wind turbine, favela-style :

A car alternator, three home-made air-blades, a 12V/24V lead-acid truck battery and a hacked PC Inverter (you replace the battery of the inverter with the truck battery, if the voltages are compatible).

However, I do not guaranty the sturdiness of the design. You'll have to do some redneck engineering, here, and figure things by yourself.


(images and links only serves to show what I'm speaking of)

[Lord Baal]

Well is not specially windy at ground height, I can always try to put it on the roof of the building (it's only three stores high). Thanks a lot for the advice. I will try to do one, most of the materials are already at hand in my grandmother's house, there's like a ton of old crap there... among it old fans, pieces of cars and car batteries, the inverter, I think I have one of those things lying around at the dead file here on the office.

About the sturdiness of the thing, don't worry, I will not try with high voltage until the rest of the system is good to go, also I have some practice with electricity (I installed the 210v for the a/c in my place), of course, I'll be careful, "some practice" is not even near to "confidence enough" or professional level.

[Purple]

You should check about the legality of the thing before putting it up. Perhaps there are some building codes or something that say people are not supposed to put up unapproved hardware full of moving parts on the tops of buildings.

[Lord Baal]

:O That's a good one too! Well, most people don't care that much here, and everyone on the top floor have their a/c compressors over the roof. However a wind turbine is really different from a compressor.

[Feil]

Getting 500kwh/mo out of solar panels will set you back at least ten thousand dollars, probably closer to 30 thousand than 10 thousand. There are lots of great ways to use solar energy to decrease the amount of electricity you need to buy from a power plant. Solar panels are not one of those ways.

[LaCroix]

If it rains that much, you might also want to consider a water wheel in the drainpipe of your eaves... There is a lot of power in water dropping three floors...

Cut the pipe, install wheel with bracing, cover up in sheet metal to keep the water from splashing everywhere, funnel back into the pipe. Ad belt drive to encased generator.

[madd0ct0r]

could this be split?

lord Baal - I've a crap load of stuff for you - links, schematics ect.
(and I bet I'm not the only one)

you've given us the local microclimate - could you give us a reasonable location?

500kwhours per month - what are you running?

fridge, freezer, lighting? air con? heating?

are you in a built up area, rural or suburban?

[Lord Baal]

Yes sir.

The coordinates are this: 10.086576,-69.274068. As for location, my apartment have a yard (thanks to being it on the bottom floor), also I have access to the roof to put something along the lines of a a/c compressor (in volume) maybe bigger but have to be free of parts that can fly away or enclosed.

I'm running this:

Fridge, I don't know it's consume (can you spell reckless?? ) but it's suppose to be energy saving. Two 32" lcd tv's that are used like 4 hours per day each perahps, two 220V a/c of 9000 btu used like 8 hours per day on average, all my bulbs are those energy saving kind, around 15 of those, a water heater that was connected all the time before (shame on me) and now we only use it like 1 hour per day tops, my beloved pc, used like 7 hours per day on average. And a electrical oven that is temporally replacing the microwave because it's magnetron just exploded in my face, quite literally... beside this the normal appliances, like blender, my sisters hair dryer and other minor stuff like chargers that are only connected when necessary. Also, we have like 2 years using the heat exhaust of my sister's a/c to dry our clothes, so we don't use the dryer anymore.

[Purple]

Would it not be simpler to calculate your power consumption based on your last months power bill? That should give you a pretty good estimate.

[Lord Baal]

Yup, it's 1289 kWh per month (last lecture). I'm aiming for something around 500 because I want to reduce what I consume from the net, so I don't get this stupid fines anymore. I'm ok with reducing you consumption for environmental porpoises, even fining the people that obviously waste energy, I'm not ok with people taking advantage of this, by saying they are fining you because you are wasteful capitalist pig, while they are running around with Hummers and using the money they fine you to buy proprieties on USA and Europe and gift power plants to another countries...

[Rabid]

1300 Kwh / month gives roughly
43.5 Kwh / day, which can be averaged to
1.82 Kwh / hour

So, if you want to pump only 500 Kwh / month from the grid, your generator(s) have to produce [1.82 - (1.82 x (500/1300))] = 1.82 - 0.7 = 1.12 Kwh / hour : which mean a 1.12 (rounded to 1.2) Kw generator.


1200 W of production capacity, if you can store the energy. The Venezuelan electrical grid is 220 V / 60 Hz, right ? Now my memories from my electrical engineering courses are a bit muddled, so don't trust my words, but :

We are working on mono-phased alternating current :

P(ower) = V(oltage) x I(tensity) => 1200 = 220 x I => I = (1200/220) = 5.45 Amperes

5.5 A : this will be the base current your installation will have to pump.

Now, let's imagine you want to store in a battery 4 hours worth of production... Your 1200 W will first be converted to 12V DC.

(1200/12) = 100 Amperes : this is the current your batteries (because there is no way a singular battery can hold such a load) will have to deliver.

Now, please take into account that electro-chemical battery have a really bad overall efficiency (~ 50%) This mean that if you want to run on battery for 1 hour, you'll have to charge it during 2.

Overall, I'd suggest you install at least a 500 Ah worth of battery capacity, or, better yet, 1000 : this way, power storage will not be the limiting factor. Ideally, you would want to use batteries like those. Here is a chart.


This will be costly.



(please note that so much batteries and electronic continuously chargin' and runnin' will produce a buttload of heat, and as such are a real security hazard, as far as the risk of having a fire goes. Plus, it will take some space... You should plan accordingly.)

[Lord Baal]

Thanks a lot mr. Rabid. Looking around I found a 400 w solar panel on Bs. 10.591 (around 2.463 bucks at the official change) It brings a 60 amp battery. Would you recommend such system?

Also, I'm officially curious about the mill system you postulated LaCroix, as it happens that I live on the ground floor, I have access to the sewer pipes, also I have a fairly steady withe water pressure, however being small apartment buildings (you can check them out on google earth) the flow of black water is nothing near constant and the installment of the white watter wheel could be tricky and costly.

[Rabid]

Thanks a lot mr. Rabid. Looking around I found a 400 w solar panel on Bs. 10.591 (around 2.463 bucks at the official change) It brings a 60 amp battery. Would you recommend such system?

Could you provide a link and/or technical informations (voltage, characteristics of the battery, things like that...) ?

[Lord Baal]

I'll try, but be aware, is in Spanish. The link to the vendor is this. Specifically here are the tech info:


Also, here I found a regular gas plant that operates up to teen hours with 5 gallons of gasoline. It's a husky 5000 on about 2225 bucks. This could be a not so environment friendly solution, but gasoline costs here are in the range of 0,07 or 0,14 bolivars per litter, or about 0,01 or 0,02 dollars (1 or 2 cents) per litter (its used as the bread and circus or the opium here). Problem comes when I think on how to store safely enough gas. A barrel contains about 160 liters (about 42 gallons), if I'm to using it up 5 gallons (10) hours per day it will last about 8 days, and cost me about 12.8 bucks or 55.4 bolivares, way less than the 400 bolivares fines I'm getting right now.. Of course there's an inherent danger with managing gasoline and there's the plus of a relative high maintenance device as a gas engine and the noise it produces.

[LaCroix]

Also, I'm officially curious about the mill system you postulated LaCroix, as it happens that I live on the ground floor, I have access to the sewer pipes, also I have a fairly steady withe water pressure, however being small apartment buildings (you can check them out on google earth) the flow of black water is nothing near constant and the installment of the white watter wheel could be tricky and costly.

I was thinking about the drain pipes from the roof - rainwater. Sewer would be a bit more complicated, as you would need build a fence array to separate liquid and solid... well, you get the picture - you wouldn't want to put something in there that causes blockage. But if you can build a filter, or do have a separate white-water access, you could use that too.
(Hell, you could even put something like that into the water line that feeds the house, if you are the owner and can make it fit hygienic standards...)

Rainwater, on the other hand is clean, for free, and it is falling three stories down, giving it a lot of force to be used for a wheel. It's basically putting a paddle wheel (there's probably not enough water for a ducted fan to work properly) in a box with a inlet on top and an outlet on bottom, and hooking it into the drain pipe. Add a full diameter bypass a bit up the pipe in case of blockage, and you are ready to go.

Just remember that unless you live in the tropics with daily rainfall, or even a rain season, it is only a secondary system to occasionally boost your batteries a bit. But it's cheap - a small DC motor and a rickety paddle-wheel, something for a housing and a bit of wire, and you are set to hook it to your battery charger from the main system.

[LaCroix]

These are the specs to a wind turbine... You spoke a bout solar panels... You're sure you have the right sheet?

And gas plants are trouble. You have to store the barrel somewhere it will be safe, you have to refuel it. (Carrying canisters, probably). Then there is noise (believe me, a LOT!), which will cause bad blood with neighbours, the fire hazard, problems of keeping the fuel barrel from rusting away, engine service, etc. If it's very hot, the engine might need cooling, etc.

Also, people might learn that there is free gas to be had at your place...

[Lord Baal]

Yes... that's the rigth one. If you look at the name of the publication the vendor says: Panel Solar ( Aero Generador 400w) which translates to Solar Panel, ( Aero Generator 400w).

I'm using a mostly text browser, so I didn't looked at the pictures and I did skimmed over the word aero while looking for the article. Shame on me

[Kryten]

Yes... that's the rigth one. If you look at the name of the publication the vendor says: Panel Solar ( Aero Generador 400w) which translates to Solar Panel, ( Aero Generator 400w).

I'm using a mostly text browser, so I didn't looked at the pictures and I did skimmed over the word aero while looking for the article. Shame on me

My Spanish isn't very good, but I can see that it's talking about rotor width, and minimum and nominal wind speeds-in other words, definitely a wind turbine.

[Rabid]

Well, at least now you know how much cost a commercial, house-grade wind turbine. Problem is, from what I see, you'd need at least five, maybe up to eight (depending on how much wind you have) like this one to cover your needs (not all your needs though).


Edit :

EQUIPO EN COMBO COSTA DE UN AERO GENERADOR DE 400 W Y UN INVERSOR DE 350W SENOIDAL .
CON ESTE EQUIPO PODRA PRENDER 4 BOMBILLOS DE 15WAT POR 5 HORAS .

1.- AERO GENERADOR DE 400W EN 6500 BS.
2.- INVERSOR VICTRON DE 350 W EN 2811 BS.
3.- UNA BATERIA DE 60 AMP ( NO INCLUIDAD EN EL COMBO).

NECESITA ESTAR EN ZONAS CON MUCHO VIENTO DE 3.6 MT/SEG , PARA PODER GENERAL LOS 400W.

ESTE EQUIPO SE PUEDE SEGUIR AMPLIADO , CON PANELES SOLARES Y BATERIAS PARA CONSEGUIR MAYOR NUMERO DE ARTEFACTOS ELETRICOS.

[Lord Baal]

I'm curious now, do I really spend that much energy, compared to say, the average on North America? What about you people?

[Rabid]

I suspect you use at least far less energy than myself. For information, it's a ~200 m² house, with two fridges and two freezer (running constantly, of course - we used to be six in the family, when everybody lived here, and we still eat a lot of deep-freezed meat and vegetables), three to five computers running most of the day, a plasma TV, plenty of lights... Our saving graces are :

1 - Our central heating and our hot water is furnished by an efficient and almost industrial grade natural gas heater.
2 - We are one of the few housing in France which benefits from a special pricing for electricity, which results in us paying roughly 50-60% less per Kwh than our fellow citizens.

But we still pay more than € 1000-1500 annually for our electrical bill. Thank De Gaulle for cheap nuclear power, or it would be far more.

[Sky Captain]

Generating 500 kw/h month from wind won't be easy. You will need a fairly large system. For example
http://www.reuk.co.uk/DIY-2kW-Wind-Turbine.htm
You would need 2 such turbines to generate neccesary amount of energy (that is if you are lucky and your location has enough wind to get decent capacity factor out of wind turbine) and huge battery bank to store surplus energy produced during windy days. Wind turbine that large is likely too big to be put on a roof of apartment house so a seperate 15 - 20 m high mast would be required to get good undisturbed airflow.

[Lord Baal]

Yup.. it seems like my options are either buy a regular gas power plant or suck it up and pay the fine or stop/reduce to the bare minimum the use of all my electric devices. Yay! Another victory for Chavez!

[Sky Captain]

You could make solar water heater to produce hot water. That is something that can be easily made from junkyard parts and there is no high speed moving parts that could fail catastrophically sending high velocity srapnel all over the place as failing wind turbine could do.
I suspect biggest power guzzler is ac device so consider the following
Do you need ac in every room
Can you turn the temperature setting a bit higher to reduce the temperature gradient between inside and outside.
How often you use ac, if it is few hours per day then gasoline powered generator might be a good idea to take the biggest load off the grid if issues with noise and fire hazards can be dealt with.
Can you upgrade the insulation of your apartment to reduce the heat inflow from outside.

[Lord Baal]

I'm thinking about replacing the windows of every room to help a little bit with this. However the northern wall of two rooms (mine and the studio/visits room) receive a lot of heat from noon until dusk, the walls are made of structural concrete (concrete with iron bars with in) about a foot thick, so it's pretty solid, but it absorbs a lot of the heat and release it during all night, making my room warm up to 30°C, at night.

This only lead me to two options, spray the wall with plenty water after the sun has come down, colling it down a bit but I see this rather wasteful and not really that effective, about half hour after I get home on this season of the year or turn on the ac on about 17 °C for two or three hours then putting it on 24 °c when I'm going to sleep.

Oh before you picture me with a hose on my room, is not like that. I sprinkle it from the out side, my wall is right next to the yard and I have a hose there that easily reach the wall.

On rainy days, or days where it rains near the dusk the opposite occurs, I find my room to be cool, the wall being really cool and absorbing the heat of my body, computer and pc pretty effectively to the point I don't need the ac at all to escape this infernal torture called tropical climate.