Ancients (Stargate) vs Q vs Ancients (Farscape)

[Ryag Han]

three of the most powerful entities in sci-fi. the gate Ancients, the Farscape Ancients and the Q from Star Trek. what's your thought on them? who would win.

[StarSword]

Don't know about the Farscape ancients, but Q can fuck up reality so the Stargate Ancients never ascended.

Boom. Easy win.

[Ryag Han]

Don't know about the Farscape ancients, but Q can fuck up reality so the Stargate Ancients never ascended.

Boom. Easy win.

wait, what? and do you think the Stargate Ancients would just sit around and watch?

[StarSword]

Well, we know Q has done time-travel in the past (TNG: "All Good Things..." for example), but I don't know of any situations where the Ancients have traveled through time.

I admit to not entirely taking this seriously, though.

[Lord Baal]

I think he meant that they all are ascended! So not kill-you-while-you-are-still-a-baby way outs....

For me, they are all the same.

An ancient, while not even being "ascended" made a time travel machine in secret. Apparently it was something they all where aware of how to do, but they outlaw it because the possibility of becoming your own grandparent!

The ancients can manipulate reality too. Asgard can too, to a extent manipulate the pass of time. Yet, all this superior, luminous beings seems like the same to me, not appropriate in the context of sci-fi. Of course, this is my very subjective idea and taste.

[Themightytom]

How is this a fair fight? the Ancients have NOT demonstrated any ability to alter reality or change time, they have the technology to, but they outlawed it. They have been presented in the series as constantly being caught with their pants down, and in many cases remain passive when even their own destruction is imminent.

This is between the wormhoole masters of Farscape and the Q and between those two factions, the universe would end before a winner was decided.

[Lord Baal]

How is this a fair fight? the Ancients have NOT demonstrated any ability to alter reality or change time, they have the technology to, but they outlawed it. They have been presented in the series as constantly being caught with their pants down, and in many cases remain passive when even their own destruction is imminent.

Yeah, those lazy fat ass bastards are glorified bums!!! Although "the ascended" haven't, some of them do it. The Ori where ascended guys that just got bored of dining on that stupid coffee where fat ass Anubis went and started to change the real world. However they required worshiping to do that, meanwhile the other ancients apparently didn't required it (but didn't do it because they said they didn't want to), and that is precisely why I hate this kind pretentious crap on my otherwise perfect sci-fi series!

[Ryag Han]

How is this a fair fight? the Ancients have NOT demonstrated any ability to alter reality or change time, they have the technology to, but they outlawed it. They have been presented in the series as constantly being caught with their pants down, and in many cases remain passive when even their own destruction is imminent.

This is between the wormhoole masters of Farscape and the Q and between those two factions, the universe would end before a winner was decided.

so the time when one ancient made a gigantic wall of energy that engulfed an entire fleet is not impressive? altering reality is one thing, the Q didn't however made any change in timelines. also, some pesky humans were able to use their weapons to threaten them, what do you think will happen when another higher dimension energy being gets involved?

well, when the Q were fighting, they caused stars to go nova, so we can imagine that such a fight would tear apart the fabric of the universe...the Farscape ancients would then launch their wormhole weapon, and win by default. (that thing consumes EVERYTHING, so the other two would have to back up)

[StarSword]

altering reality is one thing, the Q didn't however made any change in timelines.

Um, what do you call the events of TNG: "All Good Things..." then? Certainly looks like timeline-altering weirdness to me.

[Dr Roberts]

I would add the ancients have a weapon that can kill ascended beings and, we have to assume that the other factions are ascended in stargate terms. Victory for Stargate Ancients( assuming they don't do their non interference crap although I feel they would do something about this).

[Elheru Aran]

altering reality is one thing, the Q didn't however made any change in timelines.

Um, what do you call the events of TNG: "All Good Things..." then? Certainly looks like timeline-altering weirdness to me.

It's arguable that All Good Things was just Q messing with Picard's head, rather than actually putting Picard through an alternate timeline. Aside from that, I don't believe they've ever demonstrated serious capability to go from point A in time, to point B, change things, and then return to a different point A.

[StarSword]

I would add the ancients have a weapon that can kill ascended beings and, we have to assume that the other factions are ascended in stargate terms. Victory for Stargate Ancients( assuming they don't do their non interference crap although I feel they would do something about this).

Um, the Ancients actually don't possess the weapon. The only working model was used against the Ori.

[Lord Baal]

Yup, the ancients where far more power full when alive as mere mortals that when they become omniscient and omnipresent immortal beings of infinite power and wisdom.

[evilsoup]

I seem to recall an episode of Voyager where Q (or at least, one of the Q) went back in time to the moments of the Big Bang.

[Ryag Han]

one more thing: in Full Circle, even though Abydos was destroyed by Anubis, SG-1 was able to gate back, thanks to the Oma's power. she manipulated reality such that a wormhole was actually able to form.
also, being able to TRAVEL in time dose not equal CONTROL over time. going back to the moments of the Big Bang isn't that impressive, if you can travel in time, you can do that...of course, you would die.

Um, the Ancients actually don't possess the weapon. The only working model was used against the Ori.

not quite. they INVENTED it (well, Merlin anyway, but he was not even actually ascendent).

[Metahive]

The Ancients are crippled by a particularly strict version of the Prime Directive. They didn't do anything when the Ori threatened to come after them and they won't do anything when Q comes for them. Moreover, they might even act against individual ancients who try to do something about it.

They're the giant pandas of the ethereal planes, sorted by evolution to go extinct.

[evilsoup]

He (Q) protected Voyager from the start of the Big Bang. But I have no idea how you'd quantify that.

we have to assume that the other factions are ascended in stargate terms.

Why? We don't assume that (for example) the Force from Star Wars works the same way as Psychic powers in 40k, and I don't see why this would be any different.

[StarSword]

Why? We don't assume that (for example) the Force from Star Wars works the same way as Psychic powers in 40k, and I don't see why this would be any different.

Actually, we did assume that.

I would guess Dr Roberts went with "ascended in Stargate terms" because said version of ascended is the only one we have anything close to a mechanic for. Also, it's (I think) the only one where people become ascended during the storylines.

[Dr Roberts]

They can easily build a new version of it.

[Metahive]

They sent Ganos Lal to prevent Merlin from building the weapon, and it's only because she subverted the mission that the weapon could be reproduced later. They even cut her off when she was about to reveal its location to SG-1. Nope, they won't built a new one.

[Lord Baal]

Out of being glorified assholes, not because they don't have the knowledge or power to, but lack the will. It the end, however that's inconsequential, since they wont have it nor use it anyway.

And this is why all this ascension crap is disliked by me! I should start a pool about it.

[CaptJodan]

Let's keep in mind that ascended ancients can't even kill or destroy one another. When Oma finally chose to take out Anubis, himself only half ascended, it was basically implied that she could never win against him, only fight him to a standstill for all eternity. Indeed, the ancients had better firepower as mortals against the ascended than they have in their arsenal as ascended beings.

[Metahive]

The Ori did plan to annihilate the Ancients once they had siphoned off enough "devotion" from their own and a soon-to-be-converted Milky Way galaxy though. Likewise Ganos Lal didn't attack Adria until the Ark of Truth robbed her of most of her power. That implies they can hurt each other, it just requires an immense amount of effort to make it stick.

[Revy]

Oma stopped Daniel from attacking Anubis in Full Circle. Presumably his attack would have done something, or why else would she bother? Even if it was to stop him from interfering that implies that his attack would have interfered with Anubis enough to make some kind of difference. Also, RepliCarter felt certain that there was a way to kill Anubis in Daniel's mind.

Oma said that Anubis would have no choice but to fight her back. Why? Is it possible they can kill each other if their target doesn't defend themself? If Anubis opted not to fight Oma to a standstill, what effect would her attack have on him? Would it be enough to kill him?

Orlin did say that the Ori were coming to destroy the Ancients. Lacking Merlin's weapon that implies they had a way to do it, even if that way simply involved sucking up enough worship power to stomp on the Ancients in a conventional fight.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment:

What if he meant destroy as in "destroying an argument"? What if the Ori's aim was to make the Ancients sacrifice everything they believed in; that "truth, freedom of will, knowledge" stuff from Ark of Truth, take their ideals and shatter them?

Or even convert them to the Ori's point of view. If they managed that with all the Ancients, then the Ancients are destroyed because they're all Ori.

Just throwing that out there.