Danny wrote:DO illuminate me. I would really like to know where always fighting to the death (you know the TNG Klingon way) has historically had advantages, because the first thing that comes to mind is WW2 Japan, where it essentially led to a lot of japanese and americans dieing in a war the japanese had no hope of winning.
1) The battle of Cannae between the Romans and Carthage. Romans were virtually annihilated in that battle [and lost all of the battles up to that point] fighting to the death, never surrendering or retreating. It only emboldened Rome more to continue fighting, and eventually they won the war
There's a great book you ought to read. It's called
How to Lose a Battle by Bill Fawcett. In it, he covers Cannae, which was basically a curbstomp because a political appointee with a personal agenda allowed Attila the Hun to choose the battlefield and used unimaginative tactics. Also, the Carthaginian forces were typically better-equipped and -trained than the Romans, who far from being the efficient, professional legions of the AD years, were citizen levies who had previously won battles simply by human wave tactics.
2) Battle of Thermopylae. Over 6000 greeks [including the 300 spartans] remained behind to cover the greek retreat, and were slaughtered by Persian Forces. Their last stand would later be used as a morale booster and motivator in the battle of Plataea and Mycale, which ended the Persian conquest of Greece.
No argument here, but keep in mind that Thermopylae was always meant as a holding action, and was partially offset by Greek naval victories.
3) The battle of Fushimi Castle. Mototada was a loyal retainer to Japanese Warlord leyasu, who was besieged by opposing warlord Mitsunari. Rather than surrendering his men and arms and outnumbered over 20 to 1, his men fought to the death, and Mototada committed seppeku to preserve his honor. His sacrifice reverberated throughout Japan as a true example of Samurai Bushido/Loyalty. Mototada's sacrifice emboldened leyasu to commit into a decisive battle, leading to Sekigahara. The castle was retaken months later. Without the valiant deaths of Mototada, leyasu's army would not have been able to keep morale up and continue fighting. Had they surrendered- leyasu's military and political fate would have been sealed.
I hadn't honestly heard of this one, so no comment.
4) Battle of the Alamo. Texan/American militia men fought to the death when they could have surrendered in the entirety of their 2 week siege. Their sacrifice so emboldened the texan cause, they destroyed Mexican forces in San Jacinto shouting "remember the alamo". Texas became independent shortly after the battle.
Bill Fawcett's book covers the Alamo and its sequel, San Jacinto. The reason the Texans fought to the death at the Alamo was because Santa Anna did not ever accept surrenders. He responded to a previous uprising in the province of Zacatecas by essentially killing and raping everyone his troops could get their hands on and burning every damn thing to the ground, reducing the formerly populous state to a wasteland. He then said the infamous line, "If you kill your enemies, it saves you the trouble of having to forgive them."
The Japanese may have lost the war, but dont forget the A bombs were the deciding factor. The Japanese were fully prepared to fight to the last child, and I dare say American forces would have been raped had we invaded the home islands. They surrendered only after hiroshima and nagasaki. Had we not been such fuckwads, we would never recovered.
The Japanese fought to the last man because of centuries of cultural pressure regarding death with honor, the "samurai ideal" as it were. Once it becomes clear that you can't win, the objective becomes to lose in an honorable fashion, which to the Japanese meant to take as many of the enemy with you as you possibly can. Japanese soldiers were often only captured when they were too badly wounded to commit
hara-kiri.
JasonB wrote:<not even going to bother trying to decipher this>
Dude, either make sense and back up your claims or STFU and GTFO.
LETS GO!!!!"
Jason