Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it.

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Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it.

Post by SpaceMarine93 »

This had gone far enough, doesn't it? From Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/ ... 8Z20110922
(Reuters) - Republican leaders scrambled on Thursday to find the votes to keep the government funded after the embarrassing defeat of a spending bill threw into question Congress' ability to pass basic laws.

The bill's unexpected failure suggested that, even in the face of rock-bottom approval ratings, Democratic and Republican lawmakers may not be able to bridge their differences to pass a measure that would help disaster victims and avoid a government shutdown.

The House of Representatives and Senate must pass legislation to keep the government fully functioning beyond October 1 while lawmakers continue to debate a full budget. They also need to replenish a disaster-relief fund that could run dry on Monday during one of the most extreme years for weather in U.S. history.

Democrats and Tea Party-aligned Republicans united to defeat the spending bill on Wednesday, albeit for opposite reasons.

House Speaker John Boehner, the top Republican in Congress, said the dispute would not lead to a government shutdown.

Republicans prepared to bring the bill up for another vote later in the day. An aide said the legislation may be modified to eliminate a $100 million loan for Solyndra, a failed solar company whose government loan guarantees are drawing scrutiny.

In a closed-door meeting, Boehner warned conservatives who had pushed for deeper spending cuts that their stubbornness would only strengthen the hand of Democrats who want to increase disaster aid and block a cut to an electric-vehicle loan program.

Some conservatives said they would switch their votes, according to participants, but others remained unmoved.

"We promised we would make serious cuts. We have not made serious cuts yet," said Republican Representative Louie Gohmert.

Boehner and other top Republicans have vowed to lower the temperature on Capitol Hill after fierce budget battles with Democrats pushed the U.S. government to the brink of a shutdown in April and the edge of default in August.

The months of turmoil on Capitol Hill have spooked consumers, rattled investors and led to a cut in the country's top-notch AAA credit rating.

LAWMAKERS TO DELAY DEPARTURE?

World stock markets tumbled as a grim outlook from the Federal Reserve renewed fears of a global recession. The turmoil in Washington could add to the uncertainty among nervous investors, traders said.

"There is such a lack of belief that we can expect any kind of help to come out of our political leaders," said Mitch Stapley, chief fixed-income trader at Fifth Third Asset Management in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

The bill in question would provide billions of dollars in relief to communities that have been ravaged by tornadoes, floods and other disasters in one of the most extreme years for weather in U.S. history.

It also would keep the government running beyond September 30, the end of the fiscal year.

Analysts said a government shutdown is unlikely at this point as Congress has more than a week to resolve its differences. Every spending debate this year has gone down to the wire.

Lawmakers had hoped to leave town on Thursday night for a weeklong break but leaders warned that weekend votes may be necessary.

Deeper spending cuts would prompt a standoff with the Democratic-controlled Senate and increase the probability of a government shutdown. Any moves to placate Democrats, however, could undermine Boehner's position as the Republican leader.

Republican leaders have struggled at times to rein in a conservative Tea Party faction that has shown no appetite for compromise, even as a special bipartisan committee searches for hundreds of billions in budget savings that will likely require painful sacrifices for Republicans and Democrats alike.

About 60 Tea Party Republicans have defied Boehner on other high-profile budget bills this year, but he has previously been able to rely on Democratic votes to win a majority.

(Additional reporting by Thomas Ferraro and Richard Cowan in Washington and Karen Brettell in New York; Editing by Doina Chiacu)
Word says that of the 100 million involved, 36 million of the money would had gone to aid the victims of Hurricane Irene.

The Tea Party of America had now done so much as to blatantly denied aid to the hundreds of thousands of Americans that needed desperate help in the wake of a natural disaster.

The Tea Party of America had done so much as to cause the global stock markets to plummet in the wake of a potential government shutdown and affect global economic recovery.

The Tea Party had gone as far as to defy the orders of their Republicans leaders, who had for the first instance in a long time to had an agreement with the Democrats on a high profile bill, and wrecking any chance of beginning the process of reconciliation between the two parties, crucial for the US to begin its economic recovery.

And all because they can't stand the government spending one more cent on anything because they think it is irresponsible. Well, no one else is being irresponsible here other then the Teabaggers

You tell me, people, had the Teabaggers went too far? At this point I don't think anyone saying "no" would make any difference, because this is definitely too far.

The Republicans better start considering doing something to stop that raging forest fire that they started, because in my point of view the Tea Party is about to go out of their control and making things bad for EVERYONE, like a animal about to become wild once again

And we all know there's only two things we can do to deal with wild animals. We either tame them, or Put Them Down.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by SpaceMarine93 »

Sorry, I might had sound too forceful. I was worked up by all the political debates on the forum the other night. Please excuse anything that you find overly aggressive or hyper-ventilated.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

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I assume that includes the call for the Tea Party to be put down and the grammar of "had, have and has".
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by SpaceMarine93 »

Yeah, pretty much, sorry. I mean, of all the atrocious things mankind could do the worse is to deny aid to anyone in need of it. To think the Tea Party could so such a thing to the victims of hurricane Irene REALLY pisses me off. You tell me sir, would you be angry as well?
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by Count Chocula »

SpaceMarine93 wrote:The Republicans better start considering doing something to stop that raging forest fire that they started, because in my point of view the Tea Party is about to go out of their control and making things bad for EVERYONE, like a animal about to become wild once again

And we all know there's only two things we can do to deal with wild animals. We either tame them, or Put Them Down.
Well I guess we know where you stand. Do liberals even own guns? :wink:

This is a $1 trillion"stopgap" spending bill, just another continuing resolution rather than, you know, a BUDGET. Why don't you get pissed about the fact that we haven't had a federal budget for about TWO FUCKING YEARS!! Congress is required to vote a yearly budget. If they had, this piddling $36m could have been passed on a single subject emergency resolution. But no, we're wrangling over what is amounting to a quarterly budget. It's kinda funny that the CR had another $100m for Solyndra, on top of the $500m they already pissed away, which was about 2.5 times the hurricane aid amount. But NO, it's all the Tea Party's fault! PUT THEM DOWN!

I'm frankly tickled that Boehner has failed to continue business as usual. Perhaps you could find something in the failed resolution that would have helped "the children" so I could pretend to feel bad. Fuck, any bank in Manhattan could drop $36 million to disaster relief and write it off, plus get great publicity.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by Darth Fanboy »

Spess Mehren, why are you also ignoring the part of the article where it said Democrats also voted against the bill? J
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by Simon_Jester »

SM93, this is such a pattern with you that it's disturbing. It's like you have two speeds: "ignore it" and "AAAH IT IS UNHOLY KILL IT KILL IT NOW!"
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by Zaune »

Simon_Jester wrote:SM93, this is such a pattern with you that it's disturbing. It's like you have two speeds: "ignore it" and "AAAH IT IS UNHOLY KILL IT KILL IT NOW!"
Everybody's young once. It'll wear off.

And honestly, I think he kind of has a point. The left in the United States has been generally playing by civilised debating rules, while certain sections of the right have turned up to Presidential rallies carrying firearms and made none-too-veiled threats of "Second Amendment solutions". Which side is currently getting more of their agenda backed by Congress?

It's a bloody depressing thought, but maybe they're onto something.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Oh God, not this shit again.

If your idea of how to improve things is for the Left to start carrying guns to rallies and making threats, then you're a fucking moron and you should be ashamed of yourself. No thank you, I will not be crawling into the gutter with the Teabaggers.

This is not to say that we should compromise our ideals. Simply that we do not have to, nor should we, be thugs to defend them.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by Simon_Jester »

Zaune wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:SM93, this is such a pattern with you that it's disturbing. It's like you have two speeds: "ignore it" and "AAAH IT IS UNHOLY KILL IT KILL IT NOW!"
Everybody's young once. It'll wear off.
Zaune, I don't think I was ever quite this young, even when I was a toddler.
And honestly, I think he kind of has a point. The left in the United States has been generally playing by civilised debating rules, while certain sections of the right have turned up to Presidential rallies carrying firearms and made none-too-veiled threats of "Second Amendment solutions". Which side is currently getting more of their agenda backed by Congress?

It's a bloody depressing thought, but maybe they're onto something.
And yet no one is really motivated by fear of the gun-wavers. It just makes them look ridiculous, because we all know what real revolutionaries look like and the Tea Party ain't it.

SM93 would probably look even more idiotic waving a pistol and squealing about how Tea Partiers were dangerous wild animals. In fact, he'd probably look like a wild animal himself.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by Zaune »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Oh God, not this shit again.

If your idea of how to improve things is for the Left to start carrying guns to rallies and making threats, then you're a fucking moron and you should be ashamed of yourself. No thank you, I will not be crawling into the gutter with the Teabaggers.

This is not to say that we should compromise our ideals. Simply that we do not have to, nor should we, be thugs to defend them.
You know, I really hope you're right and I'm wrong. I want to believe you are, in fact.

But do you really think peaceful protest and reasoned argument will amount to a hill of beans if Perry, or Bachman, or some other lunatic actually gets elected? They're not even 100% reliable for chivvying Obama into following through on what he claimed he wanted to do in the first place.
Simon_Jester wrote:And yet no one is really motivated by fear of the gun-wavers. It just makes them look ridiculous, because we all know what real revolutionaries look like and the Tea Party ain't it.
Yeah, but do they know that? Sure, they'd get their heads handed to them so badly it makes the War of Southern Aggression look evenly matched by comparison, but they could take one hell of a lot of innocent bystanders with them first. It kind of reminds me of the government shutdown threats: "Do things on our terms or we'll take you and the country down with us."

Would a Tea Party Republican president back down in the face of similar scorched-earth tactics from the left? Honestly I doubt it, but I don't reckon you'll have much left to lose by trying at that point.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

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Zaune wrote:The left in the United States has been generally playing by civilised debating rules
Right. I don't remember there being a number of media pundits and a US Congressman blaming Gabrielle Gifford's near-death on your political movement when a looney-tunes psychopath shot her. Now, maybe I'm being unfair because you don't consider assjackal Raúl Grijalva to be on the same playing field as the civilized left (open to debate I suppose).
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

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BrooklynRedLeg wrote:
Zaune wrote:The left in the United States has been generally playing by civilised debating rules
Right. I don't remember there being a number of media pundits and a US Congressman blaming Gabrielle Gifford's near-death on your political movement when a looney-tunes psychopath shot her. Now, maybe I'm being unfair because you don't consider assjackal Raúl Grijalva to be on the same playing field as the civilized left (open to debate I suppose).
Really? Cause I do. Maybe not the congressman, but all the major right wing pundits first tried to deflect blame and then once the gunman's reading list came out, they tried to claim he was a liberal.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

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Block wrote:Really? Cause I do. Maybe not the congressman, but all the major right wing pundits first tried to deflect blame and then once the gunman's reading list came out, they tried to claim he was a liberal.
Which is a natural reaction to being unfairly blamed. I hate Glen Beck with a passion, but blaming shitheads like him for what happened to Giffords, when there was not even a shred of proof to back it, was beyond uncalled for at the time.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Count Chocula wrote:Do liberals even own guns? :wink:
It used to be a rightwing only thing, but thats been slowly going away. Still far too right wing oriented a scene sadly.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Zaune wrote:You know, I really hope you're right and I'm wrong. I want to believe you are, in fact.

But do you really think peaceful protest and reasoned argument will amount to a hill of beans if Perry, or Bachman, or some other lunatic actually gets elected? They're not even 100% reliable for chivvying Obama into following through on what he claimed he wanted to do in the first place.
The kind of methods you refer to should be a last resort in the most extreme circumstances. And I would note that we have options besides simply protest and arguing. Ie:

-Lawsuits.
-Impeachments.
-Future elections.
-Civil Disobedience.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

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SpaceMarine93 wrote:Yeah, pretty much, sorry. I mean, of all the atrocious things mankind could do the worse is to deny aid to anyone in need of it. To think the Tea Party could so such a thing to the victims of hurricane Irene REALLY pisses me off.
And, uh, why wouldn't they? After all, it's yet another form of the evil socialism. They should have, uh, insure themselves or used the tax-cuts money to relief themselves, durr.

Frankly, the thing that surprised me the most in this news was how big sum is supposed to be spend on relief, though, in the US scale, it's pretty much peanuts.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

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SpaceMarine93 wrote:Yeah, pretty much, sorry. I mean, of all the atrocious things mankind could do the worse is to deny aid to anyone in need of it. To think the Tea Party could so such a thing to the victims of hurricane Irene REALLY pisses me off.
Understand this about the Tea Party and their buddies, the Randroids:

They really do believe that people should be self-reliant. Those people now suffering from having everything own obliterated by a tornado or a hurricane? They should have socked the money away to allow them to recover from such an event. They should have lived somewhere else if they couldn't stomach the risks involved in the local weather. The fact that these people lost everything and are now destitute and homeless is, in their eyes, proof those same people are lazy and irresponsible. Because, you see, we all have complete control over our destiny. Luck does not exist, it's just an excuse for failure. A truly responsible, self-sufficient adult would be able to cope with anything on their own.

They really do think that way. Probably because, while things are good, that belief provides comfort that they, being intelligent, self-reliant, and not lazy, are immune to disaster themselves. Because bad things could never happen to them.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by Flagg »

God Boner is the worst speaker ever, which is hilarious. You never ever ever bring a piece of legislation to floor that you want to pass without knowing for a fact that you have the votes.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by SirNitram »

To the OP, I am forced to wonder: If the Dems crushed a spending bill with sufficient aid for those affected, because it was too generous to the GOP, would most Democrats celebrate a victory in politics, or be upset that aid didn't go to those that need it? Too often, lately, I fear it might be the first.
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Re: Spending bill vetoed, Irene aid halted, Tea Party did it

Post by Connor MacLeod »

You know the only real conclusion I can draw from this is "God American politics is incredibly fucked up." because I can't be certain whether to focus on the Dems actually not caving into the REpublicans in something (albeit in a manner that manages to appear heartless), or the fact the Dems basically threw hurricane survivors to the wolves over some sort of principles that the Tea Party align with. Or if its something other than that - it really looks that fucking messed up, and on so many levels.
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