Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
I dont know might have been interesting if Dad got permanently Cybered but retained one emotion 'anger at the Doctor' which proved to be the seed of the Conspiracy of Silence.
best bits were all Stormageddon.
best bits were all Stormageddon.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
I thought the episode was great. I found it to be funny, and the way they downplayed the Cybermen threat (instead of the incessant stomping around) was a nice change. Something about the way they said "You know that is enough. You know us." struck me in particular. Moreover, I especially liked Eleven in this episode when you compare it to the exact same things happening in Ten's last season. At least they stuck with Eleven's fear of keeping anyone close, compared with, say, ditching "Time Lord Victorious" in a matter of minutes. Or compare how the two of them are going off to meet their deaths: Ten literally ran away (only to sort of stumble back after going on some kind of binge), whereas Eleven just accepts it with a kind of resignation Smith is really good at doing as an actor.
That said, yeah, Craig saving himself with the power of love was annoying. I couldn't help but think of all the other people the Cybermen converted. Constantly teasing that the Doctor and Craig were gay was sort of eyeroll-worthy.
There were also some unneccesary distractions. At several points I couldn't help but think I'd missed something, like "Why is some kid asking for Amy's autograph?" (and, for that matter, what are they doing in Colchester?) and "Why are some random kids monolouging to the camera?" Yeah, they answer those questions within seconds of raising them, but it was distracting nonetheless.
One last thing, did anyone else notice the store employee with the Newcastle accent at the beginning sounded like she was speaking through a garbled radio? Could have just been an issue with the video, though.
That said, yeah, Craig saving himself with the power of love was annoying. I couldn't help but think of all the other people the Cybermen converted. Constantly teasing that the Doctor and Craig were gay was sort of eyeroll-worthy.
There were also some unneccesary distractions. At several points I couldn't help but think I'd missed something, like "Why is some kid asking for Amy's autograph?" (and, for that matter, what are they doing in Colchester?) and "Why are some random kids monolouging to the camera?" Yeah, they answer those questions within seconds of raising them, but it was distracting nonetheless.
One last thing, did anyone else notice the store employee with the Newcastle accent at the beginning sounded like she was speaking through a garbled radio? Could have just been an issue with the video, though.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
So does anyone think we're ever going to get an explanation as to why the Doctor ditched everyone at the end of the Demon's Run thing and then ran off by himself for a while? At the time it seemed like he had something important to do, but looking both back and at his apparent resignation towards his fate, it seems like he did bugger all during that time and we're left with no real explanation.
Also, it kinda bugs me that Amy and Rory have just accepted the Doctor leaving them and moved on, despite them both knowing he is going to die pretty soon and they saw it happen. Neither one of them even tries to warn him, much less offer to help. They don't even seem concerned about it anymore. Nice friends.
Also, it kinda bugs me that Amy and Rory have just accepted the Doctor leaving them and moved on, despite them both knowing he is going to die pretty soon and they saw it happen. Neither one of them even tries to warn him, much less offer to help. They don't even seem concerned about it anymore. Nice friends.
Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
I wonder what was up with the Doctor being 300 years older at the beginning of the series or if that was a joke.
The Doctor who got killed at the beginning mentioned he was 300 years older than he was generally considered to be now none of the episodes we've seen seems to suggest that that amount of time passed. We have companionless periods between the end of the last series and the beggining of this one, between demons run and lets kill hitler and between last weeks episode and this one but none of them seem to indicate they are longer than a few months for the doctor.
The Doctor who got killed at the beginning mentioned he was 300 years older than he was generally considered to be now none of the episodes we've seen seems to suggest that that amount of time passed. We have companionless periods between the end of the last series and the beggining of this one, between demons run and lets kill hitler and between last weeks episode and this one but none of them seem to indicate they are longer than a few months for the doctor.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
umm so these are the cybermen from the other planet right, and not the ones from the alternate dimension that invaded in season two? How the hell did a ship crash and nobody noticed, how long have the other cyberman been kicking around? there were cybermen kicking around under stonehenge for crying out loud.
The only reason i voted so high was for Stormageddon.The Docotr trying not to notice something odd? That bothers me.d i don't like that he would even try, and I'm sick of seeing his character so rattled. Sure he's been through a lot, but he's the doctor, when are we going to see him pull out of this shit.
Amy's a model now. Well we've acknowledged the elephant in the room... she's HHHHot....!
The entire concept of bring your baby with you to have an adventure with the doctor is beyond my belief. hanging that little lantern on it? "The safest place around is by your side?" Dude you're a fucking lunatic, I'm calling child services.
By the way, why is the TARDIS useless now? We have the doctor using his fucking NOSE to detect teleport traces? Come on man, you have a spaceship, use your scanners. While you're at it, materialize onto their spaceship so you have an escape route handy. He leaves that thing in so many random places, I'm still pissed at Waters of mars for that scene with the robot.
The only reason i voted so high was for Stormageddon.The Docotr trying not to notice something odd? That bothers me.d i don't like that he would even try, and I'm sick of seeing his character so rattled. Sure he's been through a lot, but he's the doctor, when are we going to see him pull out of this shit.
Amy's a model now. Well we've acknowledged the elephant in the room... she's HHHHot....!
The entire concept of bring your baby with you to have an adventure with the doctor is beyond my belief. hanging that little lantern on it? "The safest place around is by your side?" Dude you're a fucking lunatic, I'm calling child services.
By the way, why is the TARDIS useless now? We have the doctor using his fucking NOSE to detect teleport traces? Come on man, you have a spaceship, use your scanners. While you're at it, materialize onto their spaceship so you have an escape route handy. He leaves that thing in so many random places, I'm still pissed at Waters of mars for that scene with the robot.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
But we might see some of those things before the season ends - yes, just one episode left, but there's still time. In series 5 the last episode tied up many lose ends from earlier episodes, I'm assuming the same will happen this year.Revy wrote:So does anyone think we're ever going to get an explanation as to why the Doctor ditched everyone at the end of the Demon's Run thing and then ran off by himself for a while? At the time it seemed like he had something important to do, but looking both back and at his apparent resignation towards his fate, it seems like he did bugger all during that time and we're left with no real explanation.
Amy DID warn him, at the acid mine during "The Almost People".Also, it kinda bugs me that Amy and Rory have just accepted the Doctor leaving them and moved on, despite them both knowing he is going to die pretty soon and they saw it happen. Neither one of them even tries to warn him, much less offer to help. They don't even seem concerned about it anymore. Nice friends.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
I dont think a specific time for Mondas leaving the solar system has been given in universe, there's been a fair number of fan and EU writing about it could be anywhere from a few thousand to hundreds of thousands of years ago and cybermen could have been created once or several times over that period.Themightytom wrote:umm so these are the cybermen from the other planet right, and not the ones from the alternate dimension that invaded in season two? How the hell did a ship crash and nobody noticed, how long have the other cyberman been kicking around? there were cybermen kicking around under stonehenge for crying out loud.
If they do use mondasian Cybermen I'd wish they'd do a redesign rather than just reusing the Cybusmen look.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
This may be one of those red herrings Moffat seems to like to throw out, but....
In "Day of the Moon" when they find the ripped open suit I think it was River who said that it had been ripped open from the inside, and whoever did that had to be incredibly strong.
This episode, after wrestling the cybermat, the Doctor says to Craig "You must be incredibly strong".
Hmm.....
Naw, couldn't be. No connection between "Closing Time", the "Impossible Astronaut", and "Day of the Moon". Well, except for the "TARDIS blue" stationary. And the Stetson.
Naw.
In "Day of the Moon" when they find the ripped open suit I think it was River who said that it had been ripped open from the inside, and whoever did that had to be incredibly strong.
This episode, after wrestling the cybermat, the Doctor says to Craig "You must be incredibly strong".
Hmm.....
Naw, couldn't be. No connection between "Closing Time", the "Impossible Astronaut", and "Day of the Moon". Well, except for the "TARDIS blue" stationary. And the Stetson.
Naw.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
IS it just me or did the Cyberman ship look like the frigate from The OldWho episode Earthshock?
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
And hell, we've seen this before. Compare Ten's moping "I don't want to go" at the end of The End of Time with Eleven in The Big Bang, when he's writing himself out of history: "I don't belong here any more. I think I'll skip the rest of the rewind. I hate repeats. "TC Pilot wrote:Ten literally ran away (only to sort of stumble back after going on some kind of binge), whereas Eleven just accepts it with a kind of resignation Smith is really good at doing as an actor.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
That would explain when it crashed on Earth.lordofchange13 wrote:IS it just me or did the Cyberman ship look like the frigate from The OldWho episode Earthshock?
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
You were right the first time. The different universe thing refers to E-Space, when she originally left the TARDIS. She later returned to Gallifrey (at least, according to the novels and audios) and became President.Broomstick wrote:Presumably Leela and Romana also died when Gallifrey was destroyed, and those two deaths the Doctor would have been responsible for.Parallax wrote:Off the top of my head, only two companions have died on the Doctor's watch;
Sarah Kingdom (who barely counts anyhow) and Adric (most people cheered at that one).
ETA: Forgot Romana was in a different universe, so just Leela then.
Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
Well I liked it. The Cybermen were rubbish, but then they were meant to be. Remember they were in a crashed ship and had spent goodness knows how long inactive. They were trying to rebuild but didn't have a proper cyberleader yet and were building Cybermen out of spare parts. That they weren't particularly effective was not exactly surprising - it was to be expected.
Yes, I agree that the "triumphed by love" piece was a little mushy, but it fits with the Cybermen battles well ("emotion > unemotional hard logic"). The Doctor's reaction to this was also good, where he tried to explain that it wasn't love that won but millions of years of well-honed evolutionary instincts, before realising that he should just go with the flow.
There was also the point behind this episode that, although the Doctor puts those closest to him in danger, he also needs their help to conquer the bad guys (something we've seen a few times since the relaunch - "Rose" and "The Runaway Bride" come to mind).
I note the usual "River Song OH NOES MARY SUE I HATE HER" comments. Surely, she is being less and less of a "Mary Sue" as this series is progressing. It's clear that her life has been controlled by the Silence without her having any inkling of this. She is merely a tool; everything she is comes from those in charge.
I also don't get this annoyance over the Doctor's dark demeanour. As Romulan Rupublic says, he's plenty of reasons to be depressed and down on himself. He has been too carefree and high-handed - and it's come back to bite him big time. He's also right about the series being extremely dark in places throughout its history. The darkest Doctor we've had since the reboot was 9, or Destro Doctor as Shroom would say. It was also head and shoulders above anything else in the show's history imo.
Revy - just because the Doctor has cheated death many times, it doesn't follow that he should take any threat to his life with a pinch of salt - especially one that is specific enough that he knows where and when it will happen and that at least one of his companions has ACTUALLY SEEN IT. Also, it's silly to say that because the Doctor knows River will turn out alright in the end, he shouldn't care that she has an appallingly abused childhood and try to stop it.
All in all, I gave it a 4. I can't wait for next week. I do wonder whether we might end up with a cliffhanger though.
Yes, I agree that the "triumphed by love" piece was a little mushy, but it fits with the Cybermen battles well ("emotion > unemotional hard logic"). The Doctor's reaction to this was also good, where he tried to explain that it wasn't love that won but millions of years of well-honed evolutionary instincts, before realising that he should just go with the flow.
There was also the point behind this episode that, although the Doctor puts those closest to him in danger, he also needs their help to conquer the bad guys (something we've seen a few times since the relaunch - "Rose" and "The Runaway Bride" come to mind).
I note the usual "River Song OH NOES MARY SUE I HATE HER" comments. Surely, she is being less and less of a "Mary Sue" as this series is progressing. It's clear that her life has been controlled by the Silence without her having any inkling of this. She is merely a tool; everything she is comes from those in charge.
I also don't get this annoyance over the Doctor's dark demeanour. As Romulan Rupublic says, he's plenty of reasons to be depressed and down on himself. He has been too carefree and high-handed - and it's come back to bite him big time. He's also right about the series being extremely dark in places throughout its history. The darkest Doctor we've had since the reboot was 9, or Destro Doctor as Shroom would say. It was also head and shoulders above anything else in the show's history imo.
Revy - just because the Doctor has cheated death many times, it doesn't follow that he should take any threat to his life with a pinch of salt - especially one that is specific enough that he knows where and when it will happen and that at least one of his companions has ACTUALLY SEEN IT. Also, it's silly to say that because the Doctor knows River will turn out alright in the end, he shouldn't care that she has an appallingly abused childhood and try to stop it.
All in all, I gave it a 4. I can't wait for next week. I do wonder whether we might end up with a cliffhanger though.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
I liked it, the Stormageddon thing was pretty amusing and the Cyberman were nicely done, the way they got defeated wasn't perfect but it worked.
I really do hope it doesn't end on a cliffhanger, since after the Christmas special the new episodes aren't until Fall next year, with the open possibility of yet another split season.I can't wait for next week. I do wonder whether we might end up with a cliffhanger though.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
Forgot the Xmas special - as you were then.Minischoles wrote:I liked it, the Stormageddon thing was pretty amusing and the Cyberman were nicely done, the way they got defeated wasn't perfect but it worked.
I really do hope it doesn't end on a cliffhanger, since after the Christmas special the new episodes aren't until Fall next year, with the open possibility of yet another split season.I can't wait for next week. I do wonder whether we might end up with a cliffhanger though.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
Craig's point about the safest place being right next to the Doctor, that at times those who don't know the Doctor die is also valid, even in this episode.Hillary wrote:There was also the point behind this episode that, although the Doctor puts those closest to him in danger, he also needs their help to conquer the bad guys (something we've seen a few times since the relaunch - "Rose" and "The Runaway Bride" come to mind).
It's not that the Doctor brings chaos and danger, it's that he's charging into battle with it. In an dire emergency there are no guarantees, but sticking close to someone who has some idea of the danger and some notion how to deal with it may well be better than going it alone.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
I guess Craig is actually helping the Doctor realise that, although he can be a dangerous man to be around, he is actually a force for good - I think he needed that.Broomstick wrote:Craig's point about the safest place being right next to the Doctor, that at times those who don't know the Doctor die is also valid, even in this episode.Hillary wrote:There was also the point behind this episode that, although the Doctor puts those closest to him in danger, he also needs their help to conquer the bad guys (something we've seen a few times since the relaunch - "Rose" and "The Runaway Bride" come to mind).
It's not that the Doctor brings chaos and danger, it's that he's charging into battle with it. In an dire emergency there are no guarantees, but sticking close to someone who has some idea of the danger and some notion how to deal with it may well be better than going it alone.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
Yes, that and "if it weren't for you this planet would be a complete ruin". Which is true.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
I liked this episode. The interaction between the Doctor and Craig, along with Stormageddon, was good. Craig reminding the Doctor about the good things he's done is something the Doctor needed at this point. The way the Cybermen were dealt with was a bit silly, but tolerable.
Still, I am still worried though about the next episode. I'm not that confident that they are geing to be able to tie up everything properly in the next episode.
Still, I am still worried though about the next episode. I'm not that confident that they are geing to be able to tie up everything properly in the next episode.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
One thing I forgot was the Doctor's "It's not a rat, it's a Cybermat" comment - which came straight out of the Tom Baker story "Revenge of the Cybermen".
Incidentally, if you thought these Cybermen were rubbish you should check that one out.
Incidentally, if you thought these Cybermen were rubbish you should check that one out.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
The Cybermen in revenge had planet busting bombs and the Cybermat allowed them to poison the crew with the humans thinking its some disease outbreak. The old school Cybermen might not have the best costumes, but at least in the Baker era they were still a threat and weren't defeated by the power of love.Hillary wrote:One thing I forgot was the Doctor's "It's not a rat, it's a Cybermat" comment - which came straight out of the Tom Baker story "Revenge of the Cybermen".
Incidentally, if you thought these Cybermen were rubbish you should check that one out.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
They were, instead, defeated by glitter guns. Hard. Core.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
Yeah, and Superman is a bad ass who gets owned by kryptonite.
Meanwhile Daxamites are bad ass that they are like Superman but gets own by lead.
Oh, yeah and Martian Manhunter can has Superman level of resistance to injury, becomes invisible, shape shifts, telepathy and gets owned by fire.
Mumm-ra is a bad ass villain with all these magical powers but is afraid of his own reflection.
And Green Lantern in the 1980s had this cool ring which can create any object he imagined, but had no effect over the colour yellow.
Lets not forget the cosmic cube and likewise cosmic containment units, could make almost any wish come true, but had no power over the spirit.
Or the C'Tan who feast on stars but have limited ability to fight the warp.
Or the Jedi Knights with their awesome force powers which get nullified by some arboreal critter.
Having a weakness in itself doesn't necessarily make a villain lame. Although in the Cybermen case I would agree somewhat as it cheapens their threat, but point out that its largely irrelevant in Revenge of the Cybermen because they were defeated by a rocket blowing up their ship rather than by gold dust from a glitter gun per se. Plus gold dust is less lame than the power of love.
Meanwhile Daxamites are bad ass that they are like Superman but gets own by lead.
Oh, yeah and Martian Manhunter can has Superman level of resistance to injury, becomes invisible, shape shifts, telepathy and gets owned by fire.
Mumm-ra is a bad ass villain with all these magical powers but is afraid of his own reflection.
And Green Lantern in the 1980s had this cool ring which can create any object he imagined, but had no effect over the colour yellow.
Lets not forget the cosmic cube and likewise cosmic containment units, could make almost any wish come true, but had no power over the spirit.
Or the C'Tan who feast on stars but have limited ability to fight the warp.
Or the Jedi Knights with their awesome force powers which get nullified by some arboreal critter.
Having a weakness in itself doesn't necessarily make a villain lame. Although in the Cybermen case I would agree somewhat as it cheapens their threat, but point out that its largely irrelevant in Revenge of the Cybermen because they were defeated by a rocket blowing up their ship rather than by gold dust from a glitter gun per se. Plus gold dust is less lame than the power of love.
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Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
To be fair, this was a knackered spaceship which had (presumably) crashed centuries before and was operating on what little resources they had available. Yes, Craig over-riding the Cyberking coversion unit due to parental instincts was a bit naff - but, as I said above, the Cybermen are the ultimate (in Whoverse) hard, cold, emotionless enemy, who get beaten time and again by being subjected to emotional values.mr friendly guy wrote:The Cybermen in revenge had planet busting bombs and the Cybermat allowed them to poison the crew with the humans thinking its some disease outbreak. The old school Cybermen might not have the best costumes, but at least in the Baker era they were still a threat and weren't defeated by the power of love.Hillary wrote:One thing I forgot was the Doctor's "It's not a rat, it's a Cybermat" comment - which came straight out of the Tom Baker story "Revenge of the Cybermen".
Incidentally, if you thought these Cybermen were rubbish you should check that one out.
The Revenge Cybermen, on the other hand, had a fully staffed Cybership on a planned mission of revenge against a bunch of cowardly locals with glitter guns. And they fucked up stupendously because their equipment couldn't see through gold.
I'm as much a Tom Baker fan as you are, but the Cybermen were total pants in that story.
What is WRONG with you people
Re: Doctor Who S32E12 "Closing Time"
They were actually defeated becausemr friendly guy wrote:in Revenge of the Cybermen because they were defeated by a rocket blowing up their ship rather than by gold dust from a glitter gun per se.
a) the original plan failed because their equipment couldn't detect well through gold and they couldn't defend their relay system against a bunch of cowardly locals and a couple of spacemen; and
b) the back up plan failed because, instead of killing the Doctor and Sarah, they tied them both up and then didn't lock the controls of the bomb ship effectively. Not only that, instead of tying both of them up, they allowed the Doctor to tie Sarah's hands using his Harry Houdini knots - because those damn Cybermen were too lazy to do it themselves, of course.
The fact the Cybership got blown up by the Vogon Rocket was pretty irrelevant to the Cybermen's plans.
What is WRONG with you people