Doctor Who S6e13 "The Wedding Of River Song" [spoilers]

[Crazedwraith]

Objective Interim Spoiler Policy: All prior episodes of Doctor Who up to and including this one may be discussed without spoilers. Recent EU publications and upcoming episodes must be spoiler tagged and labelled. Previews (as released on BBC, website, etc) of the next episode are not spoilers, nor is speculation derived from them.

---

As for myself. It was a surprising satisfying end to a lack luster plot arc. Perhaps I was being dumb but I didn't see the solution coming. Alas this plot arc is still not finished though. From the sound of 'fall of eleven' sounds like its going to run through out Matt Smith's tenure. Which is sad for him I think.

[Iroscato]

Absofuckinglutely brilliant. All that needs to be said. Goodnight.

[Atlan]

Brilliant solution to his demise. River Song willing to let all of time and space die because she loves the Doc so much, not so brilliant. At least he got her aware of what he was pulling off.

And we haven't seen the last of the Silence, but they think the Doctor is dead...

[Crazedwraith]

Oh and they threw in a tip of the hat for the Brigadier which was kinda cool but runs into the age old problem: the Doctor has a time machine. Just because he's got a call saying the Brig's dead doesn't mean he can't go back to before then and see him.

I know, the explain away is timeline crossing. That since he's heard he never met the Brig again then he can't see him again without paradox but hell that's surely one of the little changeable things not a big deal for him. He could just see the brig without anyone else knowing.

But I'm overthinking a simple tribute to a cool character and departed actor.

[Gemini-Preserver]

This has be grinning all the way through, apart from one moment which had me pretty much in tears.
The Doctor being told about the Brigadiers passing. Very well written and touching I felt.
Oh and death by skull swarm, that's a new one. but yeah this epsiode gets a big from me

[Bedlam]

Does this mean the end of the Pond family then? New companion (s) next year?

Also as if he told her to look in his eye at the wedding, what does she tell him when she first meets him in silence in the library? Does she say look in my eye which gives him the idea later? or does he tell her a secret / name later?

I guessed the obvious question when the first mentioned it, intersting how the end of each series now has the main plot for the next, last years had silence will fall, this year had doctor who?

[Revy]

What?

Seriously, what the fuck was that?

... shite. Utter shite. Lemme see if I get this - the universe IMPLODES because River refuses to PRETEND to kill the Doctor?

And that's the oldest question in the universe? Seriously? That?!

Garbage. Last season finale had me grinning and laughing all the way through. This one had me constantly waiting for it to get good. It didn't.

... and why the fuck did he need to MARRY goddamn Mary-River-Sue? Aside from the painfully obvious reason that she's Moffat's little pet brainbug?

I was so expecting this to be great, I was practically bouncing with excitement when it started. I ended up enjoying Merlin more. Sheesh.

[Big Orange]

The Doctor being told about the Brigadiers passing. Very well written and touching I felt.

I wouldn't be surprised if a similar scene occurs when the Doctor tries to contact Sarah Jane Smith.

[Captain Seafort]

Pretty good episode overall, worth a four.

The tip of the hat to Courtney and the Brig bumps it up to a five.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Good enough, though I could see the easy way out for the Doctor a mile off. I am glad that the Timecops reappeared though.

The whole wedding thing was kinda wtf but oh well.

I get the impression a major part of the start of next season will be Rory and Amy tracking down the Doctor again.

[DarkSilver]

That was....brilliant..and makes absolute sense.

The fixed point was that the Doctor (or at least his look-a-like) was to get shot by River in the suit at the lake at that time. Nothing EVER said it had to be the Doctor himself. We just assumed the entire time, that it was the Doctor because we had no other information.

But the Doctor we see shot in Utah in the first episode of the Series was the Teselector, with the Doctor inside to say all the stuff he needed to say - and BAM, the Fixed Point in Time remains as it was originally. The Doctor sinks into the shadows and goes behind the scenes again, in order to keep the Silence thinking he's dead and gone.

It even makes sense, because the Teselector could mimic the Doctor and being a robotic craft, I'm pretty sure could pull off the fake regeneration effect with some special effects.

Even the question makes sense, if you keep track of what's been said throughout this series. In "A Good Man Goes to War" it's said that the entire reason we know the word "Doctor" and what it means, is BECAUSE of the Doctor. he's been throughout all of time and space, even he himself has said (paraphrasing) point to a star, I know when it begins, and when it ends, and I've probably been there both times" "You make all of Time and Space your backyard and that's what you wind up with...a backyard"). The first question that's never been answered for many, may very well be "Doctor Who?" Now why must it be the question that should never be answers.....hell if I know. But I guess we'll find out next season.

I loved the tribute back to the Brigadier. It was a good homage...and Smith played off the emotion the Doctor would feel at the time excellently.

4/5

[Iroscato]

I get the feeling this is all gearing up for the 50th anniversary of DW, which of course will be MASSIVE. It seems that the question of the Doctro's name may soon be answered, and an event that big sounds fitting for the Doctor's 50th birthday...

[Rassilon]

I doubt they will reveal his name but, if they do I hope it's a good one and not thought up while having a shit.

[Andehtron]

I doubt they will reveal his name but, if they do I hope it's a good one and not thought up while having a shit.

I don't know I'm sure some of humanities best ideas have come about that way......

Great episode, although the whole River Song marriage thing....yeah.

[Eternal_Freedom]

WE can only hope that this marks the high point of River Song's appearances. After all, we've had their whole relationship now. All we need is the final send-off to the Library world and her death and she's over with.

It's a vain hope I know.

[Iroscato]

I doubt they will reveal his name but, if they do I hope it's a good one and not thought up while having a shit.

I don't know I'm sure some of humanities best ideas have come about that way......

Great episode, although the whole River Song marriage thing....yeah.

The wedding bit made sense, it allowed the Doctor to get close to River, then whisper for her to look into his eye, without raising any suspiscion (spelling?).

[Drooling Iguana]

The fixed point was that the Doctor (or at least his look-a-like) was to get shot by River in the suit at the lake at that time. Nothing EVER said it had to be the Doctor himself. We just assumed the entire time, that it was the Doctor because we had no other information.

We assumed that it was the Doctor because a character set up to be the Voice of Exposition said "That is surely the Doctor, and he is surely dead." Bit of a cheat to have him simply be lying.

Most people still didn't suspect that it was actually the Doctor, though. Just about everyone I've talked to thought it was a Ganger.

It's interesting that the Doctor's been running from his identity "all his life," though. That leads me to believe that the answer to "Doctor Who" isn't something as simple as his name. My guess is that he found out something about himself when he looked into the Untempered Schism when he was a child and it terrified him. The Other, maybe?

[Captain Seafort]

The Other, maybe?

Possibly, especially given the symbol on the hangings at Demon's Run.

[2000AD]

Also as if he told her to look in his eye at the wedding, what does she tell him when she first meets him in silence in the library? Does she say look in my eye which gives him the idea later? or does he tell her a secret / name later?

Pretty sure he told her his name in 'Let's Kill Hitler' when he was dieing, she was still Melody Pond and he whispered to her to tell something to River Song and afterwards she answered with something like "Well I'm sure she know's that".

Overall I liked it but I was really hoping for more Canton Delaware the 3rd or at least an explanation as to why he was at the lake (as in why was he picked, not what he was doing there, 1st episode made it clear he was there to dispose of the body before it could examined in detail), so far he's the ony one that sticks out in the guests at The Doctor's 'death', in that he's (to date) only gone on one adventure. Maybe he was a last minute replacement for the Brigadier. Here's hoping he's going to be back next season, I certainly got the vibe off of old Delaware that he had more than one trip with The Doctor.

And did we see enough to account for the 200 year age difference between the Doctor's in the Impossible Astronaught? There was the mid season gap, his 'farewell' tour and (if it counts) the time he spent in the 'everything at once' universe in this episode. It would be a little lame IMO if it all happened off screen and it certainly didn't seem like 200 years, nor did it go into any of the adventures the older Doctor mentioned in Impossible Astronaught when syncronising with River.
Then again, Rule 1 was layed out again, maybe he took a sneaky look at River's diary to get some spoilers and bluff his way through pretending to be 200 years older.

[2000AD]

The Other, maybe?

Possibly, especially given the symbol on the hangings at Demon's Run.

For those of ous who weren't even alive during most of the early series, who's The Other? Same guy as The Valeyard?

[Drooling Iguana]

The Other, maybe?

Possibly, especially given the symbol on the hangings at Demon's Run.

For those of ous who weren't even alive during most of the early series, who's The Other? Same guy as The Valeyard?

The Other is part of the Cartmel Master Plan, named after Andrew Cartmel, the last script editor for the original Doctor Who before its cancellation. He had a plan to substantially alter the Doctor's backstory that was never implemented in full (but was hinted at, such as with the Doctor's remark that he was "far more than just a Time Lord" in Remembrance of the Daleks.) Had the plan gone through, it would have established the Doctor as having once been the Other, an ancient Gallifreyan that, along with Rassilon and Omega, help establish the Time Lord civilization.

The full details are in the book "Lungbarrow," which I haven't read so I might have gotten some of it wrong.

[Broomstick]

The fixed point was that the Doctor (or at least his look-a-like) was to get shot by River in the suit at the lake at that time. Nothing EVER said it had to be the Doctor himself. We just assumed the entire time, that it was the Doctor because we had no other information.

Incorrect, we had Canton III saying that yes it was the Doctor and he was surely dead. And River was probably in on it, given that she had a medical monitor that might well have told her that it was the Tesselecta, and she was insistent on burning the body - which also conveniently takes care of the evidence.

The surprise for me was that it was an adult River who shot him, and not a child.

It even makes sense, because the Teselector could mimic the Doctor and being a robotic craft, I'm pretty sure could pull off the fake regeneration effect with some special effects.

Given that both the actual Doctor and the TARDIS were on board, they might have used either one for a little of that energy.

I get the feeling this is all gearing up for the 50th anniversary of DW, which of course will be MASSIVE. It seems that the question of the Doctro's name may soon be answered, and an event that big sounds fitting for the Doctor's 50th birthday...

I think it's better if we never actually know the Doctor's name.

Great episode, although the whole River Song marriage thing....yeah.

The wedding bit made sense, it allowed the Doctor to get close to River, then whisper for her to look into his eye, without raising any suspiscion (spelling?).

The other thing was that the marriage was something the Doctor did for River. Instead of being his murderer she would be his wife. The Doctor, for all his social awkwardness, does have a certain understanding of human psychology. That, and River is the closest thing to another Time Lord that's around and clearly there is an off-screen relationship there (that I'm quite happy to NOT see too much of).

Most people still didn't suspect that it was actually the Doctor, though. Just about everyone I've talked to thought it was a Ganger.

That was true until we met the Tesselecta - then we had a subset of fans saying it was the Doctor in the Tesselecta.

It also explains the missing TARDIS, as you can see it behind the Doctor when he was in the Tesselecta.

It's interesting that the Doctor's been running from his identity "all his life," though. That leads me to believe that the answer to "Doctor Who" isn't something as simple as his name. My guess is that he found out something about himself when he looked into the Untempered Schism when he was a child and it terrified him. The Other, maybe?

^ This.

What, after all, is a name anyhow? Who you are is more than just the label applied to you.

Maybe he is more than just a Time Lord - he certainly isn't a typical Time Lord, is he? Never content to stay at home, afflicted with unusual curiosity and wanderlust. He cares more about other species than other Time Lords.

Well, hell, maybe his parents got it on in a TARDIS and he's not only a Time Lord but another child of a TARDIS - wonder what that would mean? Or maybe he is part human somehow. Or something else.

[The Romulan Republic]

Didn't really like this one much. The opening sequence was fun, in a silly, over the top sort of way- especially the don't feed the pterodactyls sign. But as for the Doctor, he was really ruthless- disecting a Dalek and threatening to kill a man for information. What bothers me about this scene the most though is the abrupt about-face. Last episode he was going willingly to his death, and now suddenly he's fighting back against his death almost at Time Lord Victorious levels, and they think they can wave that away with a single line? What brought about that change of heart? Then he switches back to thinking his death is inevitable again? And then the whole thing just seemed full of the usual rushed, nonsensical, over the top silliness that this whole season has been plagued by. Kovarian's presence made no sense either. So, there's an organization trying to help fight the Silence, but Kovarian's in it, and she's suddenly rigged all their eyepatches to kill them?

From pretty much the moment the shapeshifting robot showed up again, I thought that might be how the Doctor survives. I'm almost surprised that possibility never occurred to me before. But does this mean he altered a fixed point or not? I'm presuming not, since time is still working and all. But still.

Interesting to see the Doctor trying to be low profile now. Yeah, let's see how long that lasts. I hope Rory and Amy come back again though. Well, mainly Rory. Amy is so so, but Rory is just cool.

[Drooling Iguana]

Or maybe he is part human somehow.

DO. NOT. BLASPHEME.

[Broomstick]

But as for the Doctor, he was really ruthless- disecting a Dalek and threatening to kill a man for information.

Oh, really - the Doctor has been the Dalek boogeyman for a while now. He's been ruthless towards them before.

Last episode he was going willingly to his death, and now suddenly he's fighting back against his death almost at Time Lord Victorious levels, and they think they can wave that away with a single line?

I read it more that he was no longer delaying what he thought was inevitable, and hadn't found a way to get around.

Kovarian's presence made no sense either. So, there's an organization trying to help fight the Silence, but Kovarian's in it, and she's suddenly rigged all their eyepatches to kill them?

No, the Silents rigged them - she specifically said the Silents wouldn't give anyone an advantage without taking one in turn for themselves.

But does this mean he altered a fixed point or not? I'm presuming not, since time is still working and all. But still.

Apparently, "fixed points" can be altered in details as long as the overall effect remains - we saw that at the end of "The Waters of Mars" when it turned out not to matter if the expedition leader died on Mars or died on Earth - either way, she died, and remained an inspiration.