Imperial Forces (40K) vs 1980s Soviets

[NecronLord]

it was mentioned that they don't really do pinpoint lasing of targets which modern guys do,

This depends, as far as I know, it's from Game Mechanics, and you can't really imply much about the CEP of their off-table artillery from that unless one wants to be silly and consider 40K a literally to scale game (in which case their gun artillery is freakishly accurate).

While 40K tabletop weapons' CEP compares unfavorably to cruise missiles, which aren't really represented except as Hunter Killer missiles, it shits all over ballistic missiles' accuracy, a far more apt comparison, at least for orbital strikes. For mere artillery, I always imagined the lens-piece on the guy on the right's gauntlet thing to be part of a laser designator (hence how he calls in off-table artillery bombardment to any position in line of sight of him) apparatus.

Of course, you'll not see much laser designation in guard fiction because it's thematically a Tau thing, with their markerlights.

To add to this, okay, we don't know much about 40k infantry MANPADS analogues. But what about the Hydras and other SAMs and heavy AAA? I know for a fact that Hydras were capable of shooting down Tyranid spores coming from space (though at what speeds or altitudes the spores were at during interception, who knows, generous estimates might make them ABM analogues, while conservative estimates might make them out to be less impressive).

Hydras and Manticores (To quote the FW website, "the Manticore is a mobile multiple rocket launcher variant built on the Chimera chassis. The launcher is capable of firing a variety of rockets, from standard high explosive fragmentation warheads to oxyphosphur incendiary warheads, from air-gas to surface-to-air interceptor missiles" so presumably the description of Storm Eagle cluster rockets does not apply) are the chief AAA units for the Guard if Aeronautica is to be believed. In real terms the range of either is unknown.

[Shroom Man 777]

Well, I know jack about tabletop, and was hoping that there was something useful from the fluff regarding that.

I lent out my Ciaphas Cain books. The Hydras were described in the short story where Cain first meets Jurgen, when Mostrue's artillery group's Hydras shot down spores from space, but I forgot the details.

What do we know of Tau precision capabilities though? High-end IG stuff can match Tau stuff. And, at least, in comparing Tau capabilities to Soviet capabilities, we can at least figure out... something.

[Eternal_Freedom]

As a side note, orbital artillery should be be pretty accurate if it's Lance strikes, since they are just massive las weapons IIRC.

[NecronLord]

What do we know of Tau precision capabilities though? High-end IG stuff can match Tau stuff. And, at least, in comparing Tau capabilities to Soviet capabilities, we can at least figure out... something.

Tau have laser designators, called markerlights, on a whole profusion of units, from their scouts, to some of their drones, their commanders, battlesuits and various other things. I've not read their current rules, but they allow them to call in all sorts of guided missiles from other units on the tabletop and so on onto the unfortunate they're targeting.


EDIT To add a bit more on Aeronautica, the vertical 'range' of a Hydra is +3 (Ranges between 0 and 9 for altitude) a Manticore +8, a Heavy Flak Gun +6 and Sabre Weapons Platforms, which use conventional squad-based heavy weapons, but on a dedicated AA mount, all +1 (Heavy Bolter, Autocannon and Heavy Stubber versions; a lascannon variant exists, but I don't think that was around at the time they did Aeronautica)

Aeronautica doesn't have MANPADS type weapons, but that's because it'd be a serious challenge to make a decent model at the scale of a guy with a rocket launcher.

[Connor MacLeod]

The uplifting primer mentions that ground troops and vehicles are supposed to be able to fire up and shoot at a vehicle, whether this is effective or not I dont know, but I do know (for example) the dual autocannon variant of the Russ is sometimes pressed into anti-aircraft duties as well (not as good as a Hydra, but eh.) I'd imagine Chimeras probably do so as well (if not in the same way Cain had them used)

Hell even Earthshakers have in at least one or two cases - the only remember is Conquest of Armageddon (or was it Crusade? It was the first Jonathan Green BT novel either way) had Earthshakers shooting down ork dropships.

Missile launchers have been used, but my memory is fuzzy on exact details. I know of at least tow examples Space Marines did it, although the only one to come to mind is Savage Scars. In another case a Thunderhawk was shot down by a missile launcher of osme sort (I think it was man portable. May have been Emperor's Children or it may have been Guard.) in "Sons of Dorn.") Whether IG missile launchers can shoot them down or not will depend on whether a.) the missile's guidance system can track/recognize/lock on to the target and b.) If they actually have missile launchers. If they only have rocket launchers no way in hell.

Hydras use autocannons for the same reason the IG still uses battle cannons and autoweapons despite having lazers- autoguns are generally as effective/nearly as effective and much simpler to build and maintain than even a lasgun (lasguns generally require you have access to a higher tech industrial base than a gun requires.) And the Munitorum's approach is always an emphasis on reliability and ease of access vs neccesairly "power" (EG why no antigrav vehicles.) A lascannon probably can hit a moving speeder, but direction will play almost as much of a role as speed does. A flyre could be coming at you or going away from you at several hundred km/hr and not neccesarily be harder to track than it if is moving across your vision at that speed. And in some ways tracking at longer distance is easier, since the cannon has to be tracked over a smaller arc to keep trained on teh fighter (but unless you have good targeting gear to see and keep a bead on the fighter, there's still a good dhance you can miss because lasers aren't very wide and its easy to overcompensate.)

[Connor MacLeod]

As a side note, orbital artillery should be be pretty accurate if it's Lance strikes, since they are just massive las weapons IIRC.

Depends on the source and the ship. Some sources say they have to get into low orbit/high altitude to bombard, and evne then as a rule its only accurate to target things up to a certain scale (EG something the size of a baneblade) or an area. It's one of the supposed reasons why orbital bombardment has certain restrictions on it in combat. Use of targeting beacons or ground-level spotters with the right gear (EG naval liasion, like the dude in 13th Legion) can help improve accuracy. Some ships are outfitted with special targeting gear (as per Rogue trader) to make them better at orbital bombardment, such vessels are akin to the "bombardment ships" mentioned in various other sources (dedicated ground attack starships that is)

And of course there are other cases where they do geosynch bombardments that hit pretty much where they demand (such as in Ghostmaker taking out a daemon with an orbital strike.)

Again alot of it comes down to "depends." The IG has access to "precision guided" stuff - I remember Hunter Killers and similar devices having some sort of link between sensors, targeter, an the warhead for guidance purposes (laser guided I think) as well as HK in general being improved in accuracy by the presence of targeters (Muniorum manual vehicle and equipment briefing.) The old 2nd edition fluff on the Griffon mortar had it equipped with a targeter up on a mast that provided long distance precision targeting data to more accurately land shells on target (I'd have to dig it up out of my threads), and the support sentinel forgeworld produced has a missile launcher variant that also has a targeter-assisted setup like that. I already mentioned the sabbat worlds anthology with a "laser guided" setup, and I'm sure the FFG stuff would have similar stuff if I looked for it.

Like most high end stuff it depends on a great many factors as to whether the guard has it, knows it has it, or bothers to use it, and it can go either way.