Airwolf vs bay transformer

[inviz345]

all transformer form Michael Bay movies vs Airwolf if to much add laser upgrade. who will win
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airwolf_%28helicopter%29

[StarSword]

JasonB? Is that you?

[Crateria]

Airwolf, obivoulsy. Airwolf is awesome wrapped in amazing oozing win.

When the Airwolf theme song starts up, you know there's going to be some pure cool ass kicking.

Exactly. Plus Airwolf isn't about CGI explosions with mediocre plots like the Bayformers are.

[StarSword]

In terms of pure capabilities, and leaving aside rule of cool, Airwolf is out of its league. As I recall the Airwolf helicopter has never exhibited the ability to regenerate from what little damage it takes. (This is not a surprise, since it was built using 1980s Earth technology.) Transformers definitely have that ability. According to the Wikipedia page, Airwolf's absolute straight-line top speed is Mach 2, and its flight ceiling as of season three is 100,000 feet. Starscream and Megatron (and probably many others; how else did they get off Cybertron in the first place?) can achieve escape velocity quite easily and have no problem in hard vacuum.

Then there's the question of whether or not Airwolf can withstand the Transformers' weaponry. Here the lines blur a little due to lack of information. The helicopter is known to be impervious to small arms, but I don't recall any instances where somebody scored a successful hit with a missile. (Missiles were usually foiled by Airwolf's ECM, flares, and chaff.) Based largely on how easily Blackout was able to shred the base in Qatar (his weapons quite readily threw Abrams tanks dozens of feet), my money's on the Transformers.

Then there's the little problem that there are at least a dozen known Transformers as of Dark of the Moon, but only one Airwolf.

[Crateria]

JasonB? Is that you?

If it is, BURN! BURN THE HERETIC! SUFFER NOT THE UNCLEAN TO LIVE!

[LadyTevar]

You should have gone for Blue Thunder, another super-copter out at the same time.

[Connor MacLeod]

Depends. What does Airwolf transform into, and do the copter blades become swords?

[Stofsk]

Look all Airwolf needs to do is equip itself with 10000 degree sabot rounds and then it's bye-bye bayformers

[StarSword]

Look all Airwolf needs to do is equip itself with 10000 degree sabot rounds and then it's bye-bye bayformers

As I recall, even the sabot rounds require several hits to vital points for a kill (unless that changed in Dark of the Moon, which I haven't seen yet). Just blasting away doesn't work, as Scorponok demonstrated by surviving the attack of an AC-130 gunship. (Its broken-off tail, burned through in at least one place, was still alive too, remember?) That was after surviving several minutes of small arms fire, grenades, and missile hits and anti-tank Gatling guns of two A-10 Thunderbolts.

I say again: Airwolf is out of its league.

[Stark]

You mean the attack that near-totally missed? One shot hit during the strikes and blew off stupid robots tail. Missing a lot = high durability!

'Just blasting away doesn't work' sounds like no-limits to me anyway. Next we hear that blowing limbs off won't work because the bits will be alive - like in the other movies, right? :V

[StarSword]

You mean the attack that near-totally missed? One shot hit during the strikes and blew off stupid robots tail. Missing a lot = high durability!

I would've sworn they scored with more than just one shot. Maybe I'm misremembering.

All right, try this: during the city battle in the first movie, the Decepticons lasted quite a while despite heavy fire from sabot-armed troops, the Autobots, and multiple missiles from a squadron of F-22s. That does speak to extreme durability.

D13 noted that the (presumably) similarly equipped Airwolf II was blown away by a single direct hit from a 1980s-vintage missile.

'Just blasting away doesn't work' sounds like no-limits to me anyway. Next we hear that blowing limbs off won't work because the bits will be alive - like in the other movies, right? :V

I'm not saying it doesn't work at all, I'm saying it appears to be way less effective than a direct hit to the "spark" (the way Blackout got killed).

[inviz345]

Airwolf has armor and missle that cause damage to a moutian. Airwolf vs Redwolf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcahV1JfCmY
in To Snare A Wolf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IKeJmhCJBg he dodges bombs form the planes.
here are is wepons
The weapons were state-of-the-art, with machine guns that could rip apart tanks and bunkers. The belly missile pod could fire a variety of rockets, including air-to-surface Mavericks, Hellfires, and heat-seeking air-to-air Sidewinders.

AGM-12 Bullpup missiles
AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles
AIM-95 Agile missiles
AGM-45 Shrike missiles
AGM-114 Hellfire missiles
Paveway Bombs
SECOND – FOURTH SEASONS
(ADF Pod launched)
M712 Copperhead shells (×6)
FIM-43 Redeye missiles (×12)
AGM-114 Hellfire missiles (×6)
(Auxiliary bay launched)
AIM-4 Falcon missiles (x4)

[inviz345]

here are the defences
Sunburst anti-missile Flares
Chaff (radar countermeasure) anti-missile decoys
Bullet-proof armoured fuselage
Learning flight/combat computer
Radar/Radio Jammer
90% Radar absorbent skin

made a mistake on the guns it 50-cal machine guns and 20mm autocannons

[Stark]

Do we need to laugh at how ineffective the Autobot weapons were, or talk about the 'US navy kills everyone' sequence in TF2? Devastator taking ages to die is really only embarrassing because he barely moved.

[StarSword]

<snip list of weapons and defenses>

Airwolf's capabilities are not in dispute. However, said capabilities are demonstrably inferior to those of the Transformers. At least one of them (Scorponok) has been shown to withstand cannons of a larger caliber than any mounted on Airwolf. (Specifically, the A-10 Thunderbolt's chin-mounted 30mm Gatling, which fires depleted-uranium shells.)

Let's look at some of the things you mentioned (in no particular order):

Bullet-proof armoured fuselage

Assumes there is no limit to the size of bullets it will withstand (not true). On the several episodes of the show I've seen in reruns, Airwolf was never hit by anything other than small arms. Being able to withstand small arms does not automatically equate to being able to withstand, say, one of Ironhide's arm-cannons.

Learning flight/combat computer

Transformers are fully sapient.

While I'm at it, it doesn't really matter that Airwolf has a learning ability. Leaving aside the fact that it's usually under manual control of its pilot, you can't learn from an encounter if you don't survive it.

Sunburst anti-missile Flares
Chaff (radar countermeasure) anti-missile decoys
Radar/Radio Jammer
90% Radar absorbent skin

That only helps if the Transformers use anything remotely like radar, and that any homing weapons they have are infrared- or radar-guided.

The weapons were state-of-the-art

in the 1980s.

Do we need to laugh at how ineffective the Autobot weapons were, or talk about the 'US navy kills everyone' sequence in TF2? Devastator taking ages to die is really only embarrassing because he barely moved.

Hardly matters, I think.

[Stark]

By 'withstand' he means 'have limbs severed by', in case you were wondering.

Unless he's saying that an A-10 has high accuracy against underground targets. But then the US military ruling Deceptions 'hardly matters'! We've seen what happens when transformers are hit by regular weapons; they die or are severely wounded. Luckily, displayed accuracy suggests none of them can hit Airwolf anyway, since they missed a stationary tank at 50m.

[Batman]

Airwolf's capabilities are not in dispute. However, said capabilities are demonstrably inferior to those of the Transformers. At least one of them (Scorponok) has been shown to withstand cannons of a larger caliber than any mounted on Airwolf. (Specifically, the A-10 Thunderbolt's chin-mounted 30mm Gatling, which fires depleted-uranium shells.)

Three guesses as to what the calibre of Airwolf's cannon was? Also, you're happily ignoring that Airwolf does damage way in excess of what the weapons it allegedly is using aught to be able to do.

Let's look at some of the things you mentioned (in no particular order):

Bullet-proof armoured fuselage

Assumes there is no limit to the size of bullets it will withstand (not true). On the several episodes of the show I've seen in reruns, Airwolf was never hit by anything other than small arms.

So 30mm cannon count as small arms. Sorry, I hadn't noticed we switched to discussing WH40K. Redwolf did jack shit to Airwolf when firing its guns at it. Heck it did jack shit wen hitting it with the laser. You know, the one that caused a rather largish explosion when hitting the ground?
Whereas Bayformers can apparently at least be inconvenienced by low velocity 40mm grenades (would it kill Hollywood to listen to a military adviser every once in a while? Sabots are kinetic penetrators).

Being able to withstand small arms does not automatically equate to being able to withstand, say, one of Ironhide's arm-cannons.

Apparently Bayformers CAN be hurt by modern day infantry weapons too, and since when is 30mm small arms (see above)?

Learning flight/combat computer

Transformers are fully sapient.

But apparently not particularly smart.

While I'm at it, it doesn't really matter that Airwolf has a learning ability. Leaving aside the fact that it's usually under manual control of its pilot, you can't learn from an encounter if you don't survive it.

What makes you think it wouldn't?

Sunburst anti-missile Flares
Chaff (radar countermeasure) anti-missile decoys
Radar/Radio Jammer
90% Radar absorbent skin

That only helps if the Transformers use anything remotely like radar, and that any homing weapons they have are infrared- or radar-guided.

I'll agree that that's moderately irrelevant as the Bayverse Transformers apparently don't have any guided weapons. Airwolf, however, does, and even more important has weapons with ranges worth mentioning whereas the Bayformers always duke it out at infantry fighting ranges. Airwolf wins by default due to being able to stay out of range and sniping at them from a distance.

[inviz345]

air wolf got hit by redwolf laser beam 2.46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2PFFhEQggQ Airwolf vs redwolf

[Purple]

Whereas Bayformers can apparently at least be inconvenienced by low velocity 40mm grenades (would it kill Hollywood to listen to a military adviser every once in a while? Sabots are kinetic penetrators).

Having watched only the first movie I have to ask. Is there anywhere mentioned that they used sabot rounds? I mean, presumably against a target of unknown composition like a giant robot firing HEAT would make much more sense as there is a higher potential to make a horrible wound rather than just punching clear through. Although on that note HE makes even more sense when you look at the surface of some of them. I mean, it's like they don't have any skin.

[Themightytom]

Didn't the cell phone that turned into a transformer shoot teeny tiny guided miissiles? I feel like if IT had them, the bigger guys must

[StarSword]

Three guesses as to what the calibre of Airwolf's cannon was?

20mm according to the information I've got. That's a shell only two-thirds the size of the ones Scorponok withstood pretty well.

So 30mm cannon count as small arms. Sorry, I hadn't noticed we switched to discussing WH40K. Redwolf did jack shit to Airwolf when firing its guns at it. Heck it did jack shit wen hitting it with the laser. You know, the one that caused a rather largish explosion when hitting the ground?

I haven't seen that episode, and unless my Internet connection improves within the next day or so, I probably won't. Conceded.

Being able to withstand small arms does not automatically equate to being able to withstand, say, one of Ironhide's arm-cannons.

Apparently Bayformers CAN be hurt by modern day infantry weapons too, and since when is 30mm small arms (see above)?

For some bizarre reason they nerfed the Transformers' defenses starting in ROTF. I'm going by their highest observed numbers (and the highest numbers I have personally observed from Airwolf). In TF, small arms had virtually no effect.

While I'm at it, it doesn't really matter that Airwolf has a learning ability. Leaving aside the fact that it's usually under manual control of its pilot, you can't learn from an encounter if you don't survive it.

What makes you think it wouldn't?

Weight of numbers is in the Transformers' favor, even if you just count the flight-capable ones (the ones I know about are Starscream, Megatron, and Jetfire). And I had evidently underestimated the strength of Airwolf's armor.

That only helps if the Transformers use anything remotely like radar, and that any homing weapons they have are infrared- or radar-guided.

I'll agree that that's moderately irrelevant as the Bayverse Transformers apparently don't have any guided weapons. Airwolf, however, does, and even more important has weapons with ranges worth mentioning whereas the Bayformers always duke it out at infantry fighting ranges. Airwolf wins by default due to being able to stay out of range and sniping at them from a distance.

I'll buy the sniping argument, but as Themightytom pointed out, even the newborn Nokia-former had guided missiles. Also, you're forgetting the missiles Starscream used to destroy the generators powering the Megatron deep-freeze.

[SylasGaunt]

Having watched only the first movie I have to ask. Is there anywhere mentioned that they used sabot rounds? I mean, presumably against a target of unknown composition like a giant robot firing HEAT would make much more sense as there is a higher potential to make a horrible wound rather than just punching clear through. Although on that note HE makes even more sense when you look at the surface of some of them. I mean, it's like they don't have any skin.

If you go by the novelization the F-22s are using some kind of explosively fired penetrator.. could be the same thing with the 40mms. Or they could just be HEAT and someone got their terminology screwed.

Three guesses as to what the calibre of Airwolf's cannon was?

All 30mm cannons are not created equal. If airwolf is packing 30mm guns then they're short barreled ones, not the car sized weapon an A-10 is packing.

Also, you're happily ignoring that Airwolf does damage way in excess of what the weapons it allegedly is using aught to be able to do.

Whereas Bayformers can apparently at least be inconvenienced by low velocity 40mm grenades

Yeah, would it kill TVland to listen to a military adviser every once in a while?

Heck it did jack shit wen hitting it with the laser. You know, the one that caused a rather largish explosion when hitting the ground?

The explosion we have no way to gauge either the size or the penetration of because we don't see the impact point or have anything to scale it with?

Apparently Bayformers CAN be hurt by modern day infantry weapons too, and since when is 30mm small arms (see above)?

By using either heavy weapons, unknown firearms with massive barrel sizes (seriously, actually look at the size of the barrels on a lot of the NEST guns), or by hitting them in vulnerable places like the optics. There's very little that we've seen the US military bring to bear that has been capable of one-shotting a transformer.

I'll agree that that's moderately irrelevant as the Bayverse Transformers apparently don't have any guided weapons. Airwolf, however, does, and even more important has weapons with ranges worth mentioning whereas the Bayformers always duke it out at infantry fighting ranges. Airwolf wins by default due to being able to stay out of range and sniping at them from a distance.

As opposed to say Redwolf that was fighting at such a close range its pilot could be blinded by a flare?

[Connor MacLeod]

Airwolf's armament seems to vary according to which source you believe. There was this image I found on one website, but on others I hear audio commentary lists them with 30mm instead of 40mm cannon. And I then further hear some sources (like what comes with the DVD) gives them 30mm chainguns and 40mm cannon, plus a shit-ton of missile variants. No mention of the 3-shot rocket launcher thing (unless THAT is what is supposed to be launching the missiles. If it is it's a fucking huge launcher system thats all I can say. And I dont know where they carry all those damn missiles.)

[Connor MacLeod]

I even hear they got a laser at some point. Its been ages since I saw that show (and I was a kid when I watched it) so the details elude me

[Stark]

Some of Airwolf's stuff changed in the middle of the show because they realized they were stepping on some weapon maker's trademarks...

How does this stuff work? Obviously I guess the owner of weapon trademarks and names can lean on people to not use their marks, but I wonder what makes them do that. Plenty of fiction depicts their weapons in a neutral or bad way, but plenty also pre-empts problems by having EMPY-5s and stuff.