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No, a SWAT team would not be necessary. Your standard patrol officer is armed with a pistol - which is more than enough for your protesting dog.Shroom Man 777 wrote:You guys heard of that dog in Greece? The one who accompanies protesters in their, uh, protests? God, imagine if someone tried that in the USA. The police would probably send a SWAT team to open up on the dog with shotguns loaded with white phosphorus buckshot, or bayonets.
Ah, so you were making just a content-less general comment without referring to any of the incidents mentioned in this topic.Kamakazie Sith wrote:I'll gladly accept your evidence that I was specifically referring to any video.Thanas wrote:I'll gladly accept your evidence that the persons the cop is hitting with his baton broke the law now.
Wrong. I'm referring to Wall Street Protests in other cities and the results when people follow the law. IE - No arrests, no use of force, everyone is happy. I'm shocked I have to spell this out for you...a second time. Are you feeling ok?Thanas wrote:Ah, so you were making just a content-less general comment without referring to any of the incidents mentioned in this topic.Kamakazie Sith wrote:I'll gladly accept your evidence that I was specifically referring to any video.Thanas wrote:I'll gladly accept your evidence that the persons the cop is hitting with his baton broke the law now.
If you've obtained the necessary permits for lawful assembly then you'll have it in writing where it is lawful to be. If the officer continues on that course of action then document the incident as best as possible.Alphawolf55 wrote:So what about when people are following the law, then the cops direct movement to an unlawful part of the city as an excuse to start arresting people?
Did my post not answer your question?Alphawolf55 wrote:I'm referring specifically to the Brooklyn Bridge incident, where the protestors were specifically walking on the side walks in a peaceful manner, only for the NYPD to be leading the protestors onto the main street then arresting en masse.
Actually, I didn't claim that at all. I simply stated it is amazing how well things go when people follow the law. I never said things go perfectly and mistakes aren't ever made. With the Brooklyn Bridge incident it seems confusion was to blame on both sides.Alphawolf55 wrote:But that doesn't really answer the point. You claimed arrest and abuse doesn't happen when people follow the law, yet people follow the law and arrest and abuse still happen. Your post reeked of blaming the protestors and now you're saying that the cops might overstep but it's okay because "things will be straighten out" ?
No, he's saying it's always the protestors doing shit to get themselves ganked, ya fuckin' waterhead. What he is saying is that when protestors actually do shit with in the law they're much less likely to get cornholed with a baton.Alphawolf55 wrote:Yeah you're clearly not implying that when the police use batons and shit, it's because the protestors did something wrong rather then the police being hot headed and over zealous even when we have police officers openly stating that they'd love to crack some skulls.
Either you meant to say "he's not saying it's always the protestors doing shit to get themselves ganked." Or you just repeated yourself twice like an idiot and confirmed my statement.Mr. Coffee wrote:No, he's saying it's always the protestors doing shit to get themselves ganked, ya fuckin' waterhead. What he is saying is that when protestors actually do shit with in the law they're much less likely to get cornholed with a baton.Alphawolf55 wrote:Yeah you're clearly not implying that when the police use batons and shit, it's because the protestors did something wrong rather then the police being hot headed and over zealous even when we have police officers openly stating that they'd love to crack some skulls.
P.S. Learn how to use quote tags, jackass.
This, but I gotta admit that it's pretty goddamn hilarious you can pay attention enough to nit pick that while simultaniously being completely fucking unable to understand what it was KS was telling.Alphawolf55 wrote:Either you meant to say "he's not saying it's always the protestors doing shit to get themselves ganked."
You can't even tell the difference between a lawful protest and an unlawful one and I'm the idiot? Seriously, save us all the drama and just get the fuck out of the thread already, you hatfucking retard.Alphawolf55 wrote: Or you just repeated yourself twice like an idiot and confirmed my statement.
Or the fact that some of the NYPD cops are basically directly on the payroll of the Wall Street Corporations while still having their gun and badge and liabilities handled by the city. A system called the Paid Work Detail. Sounds like a really great idea doesn't it‘Mock And Undermine’ The Movement
I'm still trying to find out more about this work program. I know police often work security for events and such, being rightfully paid for doing so. But I was under the impression that the police were usually being paid overtime and were technically not "on the clock" of their city at the time. This Paid Work Detail sounds like Wall Street can order up extra cops at any time, for any reason, so long as they pay the city their fee. If anyone knows more about this program, could you fill us in. I've not had much time to google this, but what information is out there on this makes it very hard to give see these officers as anything other then a security force trained at public expense and working for private ends.When the program was first rolled out, one insightful member of the NYPD posted the following on a forum: “… regarding the officer working for, and being paid by, some of the richest people and organizations in the City, if not the world, enforcing the mandates of the private employer, and in effect, allowing the officer to become the Praetorian Guard of the elite of the City. And now corruption is no longer a problem. Who are they kidding?”
I'm not blaming anyone. If I were blaming the protestors then I would say "When police have to use force it is always the fault of the other person". I try and say what I mean on my first post. Each police use of force should be considered on an individual basis.Alphawolf55 wrote:Are you just coming in here to be a fucking idiot on purpose?
1) Kamikaze is clearly blaming the protestors. Imagine if instead of saying "Oh notice how batons don't get used when everything legal" if someone said "Hey no one got raped, funny how nothing bad happens when girls don't dress like sluts". Both are clearly blaming a specific group. In this case, Kamikaze clearly stating that the police using batons and shit is the protestors fault because they didn't gather lawfully. Let ignore that just because protestors are gathering illegally is not a blank check allowance for police brutality but maybe Kamikaze is right, maybe this is all the protester fault for gathering illegally he should just be honest that's what he said...except.
You make it sound like this is a normal procedure. You have one example of a confusion situation. Yes, I'm sure the police wanted to arrest over 700 people. Let me tell you something - police hate arresting that many people. Creates a lot of paper work and uses up a lot of time.2) You completely ignore my point that even when the protestors try to do things legally, the police try to trick them into breaking the law to create an excuse for arrest.
So go fuck off.
A lot of cities have police part time work such as this. Usually there's a policy in place that says "Police working part time shall NOT enforce policies of the part time employer." Basically, the officer is being paid to enforce city ordinances, and state law at this specific location. They're there for situations in which the police would be called to deal with the problem anyway. If it isn't a police matter then the officer is to take no action.Broken wrote: I'm still trying to find out more about this work program. I know police often work security for events and such, being rightfully paid for doing so. But I was under the impression that the police were usually being paid overtime and were technically not "on the clock" of their city at the time. This Paid Work Detail sounds like Wall Street can order up extra cops at any time, for any reason, so long as they pay the city their fee. If anyone knows more about this program, could you fill us in. I've not had much time to google this, but what information is out there on this makes it very hard to give see these officers as anything other then a security force trained at public expense and working for private ends.
Yeah you didn't blame the protestors you just wondered in amazement how violence doesn't occur when protestors follow the law, in no way does apply that when batons are used, it's because the protestors are breaking the law. Like I said, it's the same as if someone said "Oh amazing how no one gets raped when girls stop dressing slutty" you're not outright saying that it's her fault she got raped but you're definitely implying it. You might've meant to say "Each police use of force should be considered on an individual basis" but you used a poor choice of words to convey that and I'm not the only one who interpreted your words that way.I'm not blaming anyone. If I were blaming the protestors then I would say "When police have to use force it is always the fault of the other person". I try and say what I mean on my first post. Each police use of force should be considered on an individual basis.
One, I was referring to coffee just busting in with no regard to the situation. Also Hahahahah yeah police just hate arresting people in NYC, it's not like police in NYC are actually graded on the number of arrest they make and it's not like there was ton of evidence to suggest that departments inflated arrest numbers to make themselves look good. Lets also forget that as long as these actions go on, the police are getting good overtime pay while getting donations from banks.You make it sound like this is a normal procedure. You have one example of a confusion situation. Yes, I'm sure the police wanted to arrest over 700 people. Let me tell you something - police hate arresting that many people. Creates a lot of paper work and uses up a lot of time.
I can see the complaint that this leads to disproportionate coverage of the areas the part-time police are being paid to cover, though. It gives rich areas that want to be sure no one makes a nuisance a way to get fast-reacting law enforcement that is out of the reach of poorer areas.Kamakazie Sith wrote:A lot of cities have police part time work such as this. Usually there's a policy in place that says "Police working part time shall NOT enforce policies of the part time employer." Basically, the officer is being paid to enforce city ordinances, and state law at this specific location. They're there for situations in which the police would be called to deal with the problem anyway. If it isn't a police matter then the officer is to take no action.Broken wrote:I'm still trying to find out more about this work program. I know police often work security for events and such, being rightfully paid for doing so. But I was under the impression that the police were usually being paid overtime and were technically not "on the clock" of their city at the time. This Paid Work Detail sounds like Wall Street can order up extra cops at any time, for any reason, so long as they pay the city their fee. If anyone knows more about this program, could you fill us in. I've not had much time to google this, but what information is out there on this makes it very hard to give see these officers as anything other then a security force trained at public expense and working for private ends.
Does it really though? Think about it. Let's say you have 30 officers assigned to patrol on Wednesday for day shift. Because there's an additional 20 officers working hot spot locations those 30 officers won't have to respond to these hot spots and are free to patrol and respond to higher crime areas - which tend to be the poorer neighborhoods.Simon_Jester wrote:I can see the complaint that this leads to disproportionate coverage of the areas the part-time police are being paid to cover, though. It gives rich areas that want to be sure no one makes a nuisance a way to get fast-reacting law enforcement that is out of the reach of poorer areas.
His point is booking 700 people IN ONE DAY is a logistical nightmare that the police would sooner avoid. Also, they get overtime pay from the city, the banks don't pay the police directly.Alphawolf55 wrote:One, I was referring to coffee just busting in with no regard to the situation. Also Hahahahah yeah police just hate arresting people in NYC, it's not like police in NYC are actually graded on the number of arrest they make and it's not like there was ton of evidence to suggest that departments inflated arrest numbers to make themselves look good. Lets also forget that as long as these actions go on, the police are getting good overtime pay while getting donations from banks.
Rape is always illegal. Police use of force is legal if reasonable. Your example is ridiculous.Alphawolf55 wrote: Yeah you didn't blame the protestors you just wondered in amazement how violence doesn't occur when protestors follow the law, in no way does apply that when batons are used, it's because the protestors are breaking the law. Like I said, it's the same as if someone said "Oh amazing how no one gets raped when girls stop dressing slutty" you're not outright saying that it's her fault she got raped but you're definitely implying it. You might've meant to say "Each police use of force should be considered on an individual basis" but you used a poor choice of words to convey that and I'm not the only one who interpreted your words that way.
Well, since I'm a cop and have been one for over four years I think I can speak to how the average officer would feel in that situation. Though you could also be right. I doubt it though because cops are people and people hate busy work which is what arresting 700 people would be - an absolute nightmare.One, I was referring to coffee just busting in with no regard to the situation. Also Hahahahah yeah police just hate arresting people in NYC, it's not like police in NYC are actually graded on the number of arrest they make and it's not like there was ton of evidence to suggest that departments inflated arrest numbers to make themselves look good. Lets also forget that as long as these actions go on, the police are getting good overtime pay while getting donations from banks.
I'm referring to the 4.6 million JP Morgan Chase donated to the NYPD right around when the protest started picking up. Sure it's only around 1/900th of their yearly budget but still.CaptainChewbacca wrote:His point is booking 700 people IN ONE DAY is a logistical nightmare that the police would sooner avoid. Also, they get overtime pay from the city, the banks don't pay the police directly.Alphawolf55 wrote:One, I was referring to coffee just busting in with no regard to the situation. Also Hahahahah yeah police just hate arresting people in NYC, it's not like police in NYC are actually graded on the number of arrest they make and it's not like there was ton of evidence to suggest that departments inflated arrest numbers to make themselves look good. Lets also forget that as long as these actions go on, the police are getting good overtime pay while getting donations from banks.
Fine then lets change the example what if I said one day "Frank didn't get punched today, it's amazing what happens when he doesn't run his mouth". Would you assume I'm saying 'Frank gets punched for different reasons depending on the circumstances. Or would you assume I'm saying Frank norm to talk shit gets him in trouble?Rape is always illegal. Police use of force is legal if reasonable. Your example is ridiculous.
Does your department use a system like comp stat?Well, since I'm a cop and have been one for over four years I think I can speak to how the average officer would feel in that situation. Though you could also be right. I doubt it though because cops are people and people hate busy work which is what arresting 700 people would be - an absolute nightmare.
