Yogi wrote:To answer the original question is if poetry, literature, and history are irrelavent or not, I will merely say that Star Wars borrows a lot from both literature and history.
The person mentioned at the beginning of the thread is wrong to dismiss history; it is useful information. Poetry and literature, however, are luxuries, not necessities. Star Wars does not change this rule; it is also a luxury.
*wonders where DW will place porn*
"everytime a person is born the Earth weighs just a little more."--DMJ on StarTrek.com
"You see now you are using your thinking and that is not a good thing!" DMJay on StarTrek.com
"Watching Sarli argue with Vympel, Stas, Schatten and the others is as bizarre as the idea of the 40-year-old Virgin telling Hugh Hefner that Hef knows nothing about pussy, and that he is the expert."--Elfdart
Yogi wrote:To answer the original question is if poetry, literature, and history are irrelavent or not, I will merely say that Star Wars borrows a lot from both literature and history.
The person mentioned at the beginning of the thread is wrong to dismiss history; it is useful information. Poetry and literature, however, are luxuries, not necessities. Star Wars does not change this rule; it is also a luxury.
*wonders where DW will place porn*
Porn is most definitely a luxury
Overall while an arrogant statement has a pure idea behind it...science provides us the basis of survival...literature doesn't.
But to completely dismiss them considering where we are at this time is basically shut oneself completely socially because it's only needed to go as far as pro-creation and anymore inclination towards sexual conduct is just pointless.
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Darth Servo wrote:*wonders where DW will place porn*
Porn is most definitely a luxury
I don't know about that, the way Mike talks about it at times.
Last year, South Park did a spoof on LOTR. Butters gets his hands on a copy of 'Back Door Sluts 9'. He watches it for five minutes and it is then taken away by Stan, Kyle and Eric. Butters immediately turns into Gollum.
*wonders if the same would happen to DW if the fundies ever succeeded in banning porn*
"everytime a person is born the Earth weighs just a little more."--DMJ on StarTrek.com
"You see now you are using your thinking and that is not a good thing!" DMJay on StarTrek.com
"Watching Sarli argue with Vympel, Stas, Schatten and the others is as bizarre as the idea of the 40-year-old Virgin telling Hugh Hefner that Hef knows nothing about pussy, and that he is the expert."--Elfdart
The humanities are not a luxury to the scientist, maybe to a technician, but not a scientist, it is a tool. Literature, poetry, art, philosophy, even dream interpertations helps to keep a scientists mind flexible and open. A lot of science is indeed following point a to its logical conclusion at point b, but that only takes you so far in terms of innovation and discovery. A SCIENTIST needs to think outside of the box.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm talking from a biological research point of view.. perhaps it doesn't apply to engineering, computers or whatnot. But in my sciences.. if your mind is not flexible and open you're not going to get anywhere. The humanities helps keeps the mind open.
The spirit of porn was invented when the first guy spied on a hot girl bathing in some water hole.
It is obviously older and thus more complex and a more vital part of human identity than music and literature.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
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Without art, what's the whole point of civilization beyond bare survival (which we're so good at that we try to REDUCE our calorie intake and worry about OTHER species)? This twink, brilliant as he undoubtedly is, hasn't contemplated life without music, movies, novels, television, computer games, plays, paintings, sculpture, pornography, or sports cars. Science is undoubtedly more useful than art (his comments about history are so ignorant I won't even remark on them), but what's the damned point of making life longer and more comfortable if life itself is void of anything beautiful? I don't think art is a luxury in the same sense that a diamond necklace is a luxury--it's part of some need within the human psyche to create and experience something more profound than the raw stuff of everyday life.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963 X-Ray Blues
RedImperator wrote:Without art, what's the whole point of civilization beyond bare survival (which we're so good at that we try to REDUCE our calorie intake and worry about OTHER species)? This twink, brilliant as he undoubtedly is, hasn't contemplated life without music, movies, novels, television, computer games, plays, paintings, sculpture, pornography, or sports cars. Science is undoubtedly more useful than art (his comments about history are so ignorant I won't even remark on them), but what's the damned point of making life longer and more comfortable if life itself is void of anything beautiful? I don't think art is a luxury in the same sense that a diamond necklace is a luxury--it's part of some need within the human psyche to create and experience something more profound than the raw stuff of everyday life.
True, but at the same time, you could live a completely fulfilling life without poetry, for example. While some form of intellectual recreation is essential, it doesn't really matter which one you engage in, even if it's just stories told around a campfire or humming to yourself. The act of making art and literature into a formalized field of study is self-indulgent. Specific scientific discoveries such as germ theory, on the other hand, are crucial to society. And without running water, you might not live a life at all, since you would have been much more likely to die in childhood.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Darth Wong wrote:
True, but at the same time, you could live a completely fulfilling life without poetry, for example. While some form of intellectual recreation is essential, it doesn't really matter which one you engage in, even if it's just stories told around a campfire or humming to yourself. The act of making art and literature into a formalized field of study is self-indulgent. Specific scientific discoveries such as germ theory, on the other hand, are crucial to society. And without running water, you might not live a life at all, since you would have been much more likely to die in childhood.
Self-indulgent? No, not really. It's really akin to history. A lot of poetry and literature are a reflection of their times cleverly written to bring out the experience and emotion through words. Looking through the looking glass so to speak. And to some people, maybe they enjoy a good play on words better than looking at a sequence of DNA and those people who look at those sequences of DNA want to hear a good play on words.
Trytostaydead wrote:Self-indulgent? No, not really. It's really akin to history. A lot of poetry and literature are a reflection of their times cleverly written to bring out the experience and emotion through words. Looking through the looking glass so to speak. And to some people, maybe they enjoy a good play on words better than looking at a sequence of DNA and those people who look at those sequences of DNA want to hear a good play on words.
The fact that you're talking about these things in terms of enjoyment shows that you don't grasp the basic point. Art is a recreational activity that has been formalized into a field of study. It's a past-time and a hobby. Art decorates your walls; it doesn't keep them standing. Science does.
Damien Sorresso
"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
Read my first post though. Art is a way to expand a person's mind. Not everyone can be a scientist and not everyone can be an artist. But both can enjoy the fruit of each others labor to develop more.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:In my opinion...no. Being logical and scientific is perfect for one who has the correct mindset. He does, he can handle it apparently. IMHO in depends on the person in question. Me, I try to think things through logically, and then motivate myself by using my emotions.
Just making sure, but you did read that quote I put, right? About how he thinks literature, history, and such are basically useless junk? Just making sure.
I personally think that liturature, art and history are absolutly beutiful, and could not fathom an existence without them...But if he can do it, more power to him
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There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
Darth Wong wrote:True, but at the same time, you could live a completely fulfilling life without poetry, for example. While some form of intellectual recreation is essential, it doesn't really matter which one you engage in, even if it's just stories told around a campfire or humming to yourself. The act of making art and literature into a formalized field of study is self-indulgent. Specific scientific discoveries such as germ theory, on the other hand, are crucial to society. And without running water, you might not live a life at all, since you would have been much more likely to die in childhood.
The study of art and literature can lend insights into a culture (in dealing with cultures that existed before the formalized study of history, literature is sometimes all you have to work with from the contempoary sources). But much as feel I'm supposed to leap to the defense of my liberal arts bretheren over in the lit department, you're right, the formalized study of the arts is an indulgence. That doesn't mean the arts themselves are worthless, though.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963 X-Ray Blues
Frank Hipper wrote:*Thinks of Frank Lloyd Wright's leaky roof designs*
Frank Lloyd Wright doesn't count. His designs looked like shit.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963 X-Ray Blues
well, I do not think his reaction is "scientific", but pratical. Literature and History have no importance to his field, therefore they are useless. Some may be scietific and study both fields. Some humans are even able to live without knowing anything about science or art or history even...
Muffin is food. Food is good. I am a Muffin. I am good.
lgot wrote:well, I do not think his reaction is "scientific", but pratical. Literature and History have no importance to his field, therefore they are useless. Some may be scietific and study both fields. Some humans are even able to live without knowing anything about science or art or history even...
That last sentence is wrong. One of the first things every child learns is a vague grasp of the law of gravity; those too stupid to figure out how it works become XTreme Sports fanatics and die an early death. Similarly, a lack of knowledge of what electricity is, or how corrosive chemicals tend to interact with the human body are all likely to end your life prematurely. So no, while someone can live without knowing anything about art or history, he MUST learn a few scientific concepts in order to survive, unless he gets through life on monstrous helpings of sheer dumb luck.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
I am sorry, that is not the meaning I wanted.
Of course, by simple pratical, you learn you do not float and things fall. But that is not having scietific knowledge, which have to also with the study of causes and effects and a whole way of perception.
He still affected by natural laws but the person does not have scietific knowledge or scietific aproach to anything. In that sense I meant he live without knowing about Science.
Muffin is food. Food is good. I am a Muffin. I am good.
