Costume Stereotypes

[Mr. Coffee]

Eat shit, Coffee. I didn't say white stereotypes were okay, either, but there's a vast fucking difference between a confederate hat with some buckteeth and mocking a race or culture that's been the victim of slavery and genocide. I understand a huge chunk of your internet persona relies on being "edgy" and not giving a fuck, but I actually have to deal with people who think these stereotypes are true/funny and making people aware of how offensive these costumes can be is a good start.

And yet there's Chappelle making fun of both, and he did it so well when he says "I'm rich, bitch!" he ain't jokin' either. Seriously, if it's so hurtful then why is it that it's gotten such mainstream acceptance across pretty much every ethnic boundary in the US that people are willing to pay guys like him or Carlos Mencia money to watch them do pretty much nothing but racial stereotype references? Fuck, even the Redneck comedians do this shit and people are still laughing despite Jeff Foxworthy not having written a new joke in the last twenty years. But hey, you say it's hugely offensive, so it MUST be true.

Also, this has nothing to do with an internet persona (whine more, pussy, your rage gives me a hard on), I just think you're being an overly sensitive, hypocritical pussy about the whole issue is all. As far as dealing with people who might find this offense, most of my employees are racial minorities and they make more fun of this shit then I ever do. Seriously, get the fuck over yourself.

[Losonti Tokash]

So, let's just be clear. Your arguments consist of "most people think it's funny to make fun of minorities," "I can't be racist, I have black friends," and "if minorities can joke about themselves, why is it inappropriate for me as a white man to also make fun of them?"

[Mr. Coffee]

So, let's just be clear. Your arguments consist of "most people think it's funny to make fun of minorities," "I can't be racist, I have black friends," and "if minorities can joke about themselves, why is it inappropriate for me as a white man to also make fun of them?"

Same as your arguments basically amount to "lol white guilt, therefore white stereotypes aren't offensive". Never mind that you're claiming that stereotypes as humor are massively hurtful to everyone, yet somehow they're massively popular in entertainment enjoyed by not just us supposedly racism proof white people, but by just about every ethnic and racial minority you can name. Seriously, just because you've got a massive dose of white guilt stop trying to project it on me, jackass.

edit: changed "racist" to "offensive".

[Losonti Tokash]

First off, I'm not white, but it's not important and I can understand the assumption.

Second, you need to decide between "white stereotypes are offensive too" or "no stereotypes are offensive." You swing back and forth in the same paragraph and it's pretty nonsensical.

Third, I specifically said white stereotypes aren't okay, either. They just don't have the teeth behind them that blackface or suicide bomber costumes do. Add in that you literally have people saying "I find this depiction of my race/culture offensive" and you can't just go "no one is hurt by this." What you're doing is literally an appeal to popularity.

Last, not only is humor based on stereotypes incredibly lazy and all around terrible, saying "humor takes the hate out of it" makes no sense whatsoever. Does a suicide bomber costume make people less prejudiced against Muslims? Do white supremacists cry "argh I am defeated" when they see hack comedians build an entire routine on "black people are like this, white people are like this"?

[Mr. Coffee]

First off, I'm not white, but it's not important and I can understand the assumption.

Well, learn something new every day. Sorry for the assumption. Out of curiosity, and this has no bearing on the topic, what eithnicity are you? Like I said, just curious, like to get to know who I'm calling a fuckhead this week is all.

Second, you need to decide between "white stereotypes are offensive too" or "no stereotypes are offensive." You swing back and forth in the same paragraph and it's pretty nonsensical.

I'm not the one that needs to figure that one out. You are (and anyone else that keeps this silly assed idea that somehow white stereotypes are less offensive). You answered that later in your last post, but while you think stereotypes, even white stereotypes, aren't ok, I disagree. I think these can be humor found in it, and like pretty much anything, there's a difference between Chappelle using them for laughs and some skinhead fuckwit using them to spread hate. Context is the key here.

Third, I specifically said white stereotypes aren't okay, either. They just don't have the teeth behind them that blackface or suicide bomber costumes do. Add in that you literally have people saying "I find this depiction of my race/culture offensive" and you can't just go "no one is hurt by this." What you're doing is literally an appeal to popularity.

I never said no one is hurt by it. What I did say is that it seems a lot more people find humor than find offense.

Last, not only is humor based on stereotypes incredibly lazy and all around terrible, saying "humor takes the hate out of it" makes no sense whatsoever.

Most of the time that's pretty much spot on. Sometimes you end up with some of the genuinely funny skits like some of the ones Chappelle did on his show. Most of the time you end up with Carlos Mencia though. Then again, what you think is funny or what I think is funny, or what people that actually pay money to see Jeff Foxworthy rehash the same old shit he's been doing since the late 80s think is funny is wildly different.

As far as taking the hate of it goes, racist assholes are going to be racist assholes. What my point was is that hopefully by marginalizing the offensive racist aspects people stop and think about it before they buy into racist ideology. Not many people will want to become skin heads if all anyone does is laugh at them and their silly ideas. Might not work, but it beats the shit out of tip toeing over each other trying our best not to offend anyone.

[Losonti Tokash]

Here's the issue as I see it: I am not literally saying that everyone who wears these costumes is an ass or that it will automatically be offensive. But people should be aware of what they say or do can mean to people, even if their intent really is just an innocent joke. Ignorance in and of itself isn't a bad thing, it's just a lack of information.

What I think the goal of this campaign is (and this may not actually be the case, oh well) is to make people aware of and put a human face on this issue. Obviously most costumes aren't as high on the scale of "fucking awful" like blackface or taping the corners of your eyelids.

But what we can all agree on is that Carlos Mencia should go choke on a bucket of dicks. :V

[Mr. Coffee]

Here's the issue as I see it: I am not literally saying that everyone who wears these costumes is an ass or that it will automatically be offensive. But people should be aware of what they say or do can mean to people, even if their intent really is just an innocent joke. Ignorance in and of itself isn't a bad thing, it's just a lack of information.

I can agree with that. That's the other reason why I don't mind stereotypes as actual humor (when someone makes an actual effort to be funny that is). It might just make people think about what it is they're laughing at and try to gain a better understanding off it. Probably not gonna happen much, but who knows.

What I think the goal of this campaign is (and this may not actually be the case, oh well) is to make people aware of and put a human face on this issue. Obviously most costumes aren't as high on the scale of "fucking awful" like blackface or taping the corners of your eyelids.

Then why didn't you say that in the first place. Could've avoided a lot of bullshit here.

But what we can all agree on is that Carlos Mencia should go choke on a bucket of dicks. :V

Amen to that...

[Losonti Tokash]

What can I say? My initial posts were made in a state of semi-consciousness and misdirected aggravation? :p

[Mr. Coffee]

What can I say? My initial posts were made in a state of semi-consciousness and misdirected aggravation? :p

Same. three or four AM is a terrible time to post. No hard feelings, homie.

[Phantasee]

How do y'all feel about Raffi Torres dressing up in black face as Jay-Z for Halloween? Apparently it's "not racist because Torres is Mexican" or something, or because he "dressed up as his favourite rapper" but I'm thinking it's pretty racist.

[spaceviking]

The fact that he is Mexican does not matter. How is it 'racist' exactly? Does his costume promote discrimination against black people? I would say given the legacy of 'minstrel shows' it was in poor taste, but hardly racist.




This is the costume in question. As far as I can see he is trying to create as close a Jay Z likeness as he can. This is not mocking black people, it is showing ones particular affinity for a specific person.

[Todeswind]

Amos and Andy was, inarguably, a minstrel show. It was a radio program from the 1920s where two white men pretended to be two black men and wandered through their daily misfortunes. It is a very loving and good natured representation of a stereotype, but it is still a terrible representation of black people as a whole. It was not only a good show, it was arguably the best show from the golden age of radio. I happen to love characters like Rochester from the Jack Benny show, I find their shows and their roles within them to be hilarious but I understand how someone could be be horribly offended to see one of those characters portrayed on modern television the way they were portrayed within those shows. It's all about context and the audience you are preforming for.

I don't think that people should be banned from doing offensive things or saying offensive things, it is entirely contrary to free speech. But "I have a right to express myself" and "you don't have a right to get offended" do not mean the same thing. We can argue how offensive or inoffensive an individual consume might be, but to state that I am barred from ever dressing up to emulate another culture seems excessive and sort of misses the point just as much.

In any discussion of this sort it seems like the subtext of what a lot of people say is "I don't want to admit I have views on race." I don't mean that people are racist, I simply mean that people don't feel comfortable admitting some of the assumptions they make about other cultures. I think to a certain degree we are hyperconscious of race because we don't really like to admit that race does affect our decision making in daily life, as though somehow pointing out how tolerant we are will make others less willing to suspect that we do in fact hold arguably racist views.

To be honest it's very liberating for me to live in Japan as a minority ethnicity, I can literally do or say anything I please about any race/group I please and expect it to be received with relatively good humor.

[Mr. Coffee]

The fact that he is Mexican does not matter. How is it 'racist' exactly? Does his costume promote discrimination against black people? I would say given the legacy of 'minstrel shows' it was in poor taste, but hardly racist.

Sounds like a really horrible attempt at a "Yo, Dawg" meme.