The Occupation of Wall Street Spreads

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

On a more serious note, what retard is it that trains the folk using pepper spray over there and tells you water is the go-to solution for it? Fucking shampoo would be a better option by far.

I don't think they're retards so much as sadistic retards. Milk does indeed put the fire out, water does not.

ITT: We learn that Capsaicin isn't water soluble.

Seriously, all water is going to do is spread the "Oh, fuck! BURNING!" around. There's a pretty good reason why fliers telling you to use a solution of Malox are floating about. Apparently the dumb hippies are more savvy about chemistry then the flatfoots dousing people in pepper spray are. Who knew...

I suspect it's because hippies as kids tended to read books, observe, and experiment more than those destined to be cops. When you learn enough about the world, you tend to want to fix it and help people get along better. If you don't learn on your own time, you tend not to care about the world's problems other than using them to make money. If you're a control freak, you definitely tend toward jobs that pay you to enforce the status quo.

[Ryan Thunder]

Did I say their families, if they even have any, deserved to be punished? If Anonymous has to identify them because the police department won't, then well, it's unfortunate but necessary.

Acceptable collateral damage, yes?

EDIT: Maybe that wasn't called for just yet.

[White Haven]

In an ideal world, the police expose those among their ranks who are guilty and they're properly punished. If we were in an ideal world, among other things, people wouldn't be getting tear gassed for trying to help someone with a skull fracture caused by the police themselves.

If it comes down to 'possible splash damage and the identities of those responsible bared to the world' versus not having the identities at all, I'd pick the former every time. Abuse of the public trust is, for me, an absolutely huge thing, and something that needs to be viciously eradicated at every turn. Ideally, the justice system does the job, and does it promptly. If that's not the case, better someone unauthorized releasing the information than no one at all.

Also, belatedly as all hell, KS: There will always be people who use various and assorted laws as a shield in an unintended fashion. Right now, it's all manner of assorted laws being used to suppress the right of free assembly and speech. In your alternate hate-group scenario, it's free assembly being used to harass legitimate businesses/interests. Given that one's being done by hate groups and one's being done by deliberately-nonviolent protesters, I think it's far more likely that the assorted hate groups you mentioned will break something a good deal less ambiguous before long. Once that happens, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, and you're free to use violence to suppress a violent protest.

[Eulogy]

In an ideal world, the police expose those among their ranks who are guilty and they're properly punished. If we were in an ideal world, among other things, people wouldn't be getting tear gassed for trying to help someone with a skull fracture caused by the police themselves.

I heard that the Blue Wall is so prevalent because cops tend to need each other on jobs, and those who do the right thing and expose pigs tend to be ostracized by their peers, and as such backup "forgets" to arrive for them - among other things.

Until and unless you change that, the Blue Wall will still stand in the way of justice.

[Simon_Jester]

Cops are doing their jobs, if one or some step out of line sue em. Don't make it a war between protestors and cops, keep to the message about the 99% (which blue collar cops are definitely part of) and the 1%ers.

Even if we take the social role of the police at face value - that their job is to enforce the law - then it follows that since it's the 1% of society that effectively dictates what the law is, using the power granted to them by their (ill-gotten) enormous share of our collective wealth, then the cops as a social group are not "one of us" but rather are the hired enforcers of one of the most powerful gangs on the planet, whose goals do not coincide with those of the 99%.

How many more bright young heads will have a baton broken over them before that sinks in?

NoXion, I'm not going to hit you over the head, but I hope this sinks in anyway:

Would you like to have a civilization when all of this is over?

I'm not asking you what sort of civilization you'd like to have. I'm asking you if you want one. Because if you do, then that civilization will need police to enforce whatever law code you manage to enact over the trampled oligarchs you just got rid of.

Now, it may be that you need to scrap the entire enforcement system and start over. This is called a "revolution." They kill millions of people. Have you ever stopped to seriously imagine what a million dead means? Have you stopped to consider what kind of government you're likely to get after the revolution has killed millions? The kind of bloody-handed mass murderer you can depend on to kill millions for you will not become all smiles and sunshine after he wins. Look at what happened in France or Russia if you don't believe me.

Me, I want a reformation, not a revolution. I want organic change to the system, big and ambitious but not done by blasting everything to anarchic pieces and rebuilding from scratch. Which means I need to worry about things like continuity of government, and making it possible for the rank-and-file of the current system to find a place to live in the new one, because I for one am not planning to kill them all.

And I think before we decide to have a revolution, I think we'd better make sure we know what we're doing. As a rule, you shouldn't resolve to have a revolution, as opposed to a reformation, before you've found out you have nothing to lose. At the moment, you, we, do have something important to lose: our lives.

When protestors start getting massacred a la Bloody Sunday, when machine guns and napalm rather than rubber bullets and tear gas are the order of the day, then we will know we are in need of a revolution. Until then, the Establishment is still playing by a set of rules which they did not write, rules which forbid the Establishment from butchering the opposition to stay in power, rules which quite a few of them would be happy to get rid of... but which they can't get rid of, because they aren't actually as all-powerful as you think.

I realize it's an emotional issue, for a lot of people, I just think remaining calm while expressing that frustration in things like the Occupations, and this disrupting of Walker's speech, and various other activities is really important, because otherwise it's really easy to dismiss people as being irrational or a raving liberal or whatever other labels get thrown around.

Yes, it's very emotional. And it's about damned time people got this upset about things! However, while we do need that emotion and passion it's extremely important that our actions in response to that emotion be rational and measured. Of course, not everyone is up to that particular task, but part of acting in a group is relying on peer pressure to maintain certain types of conduct. It's easier to be brave when there are others standing next to you.

There is a great deal to be said for the kind of person who can form groups that react in a disciplined, measured, and efficient way to some tremendous emotional force.

That's, well... people like that are the foundation layer you need to build civilizations, which is about as high a compliment as I can pay a collective group.

I'm talking about the not infrequent departure of people from colonial society into Native society, which happened regularly during the 18th century, and did not happen during the 19th century, and so there was clearly a transition between these states which cannot be explained by population pressures alone, you fucking idiot.

Bakustra, there's a simple explanation: distance. During the 1600s and 1700s, the frontier between British/American colonists and the native population didn't move very fast; in over 150 years it really hadn't pushed much past the Appalachians. There was a fairly stable relationship between whites and Indians, one that could last for a generation without changing too much. Indians could build large, stable communities that would have some attraction to whites- just as white communities attracted a certain number of natives who came across and assimilated even when they could have stayed home.

After 1800, that changed. The frontier started moving very quickly, and native populations anywhere near a white population could count on being dispossessed and driven off choice bits of land in... oh, about ten years, give or take. The frontier went from the Ohio valley to the Dakotas in eighty years.

So, no stable relationship between white and native communities that had both been settled in place long enough to get to know each other on basically peaceful terms. The sheer numbers of colonists pouring west swamped the native communities, pushing them into violent opposition or simply pushing them away, with no chance to build stable relationships with nearby white societies as the Iroquois, Cherokee, and other similar groups managed during the 1700s.

And the bulk of the American population still lived so far from the frontier that they had little or no contact with native communities, and thus no impulse to run off and join them. Be realistic, Bakustra; if you live three hundred miles from the nearest Indian village, you're not going to run off and join the Indians.

So the claim that all this is due to demonization and propaganda needs a lot more evidence backing it than you seem to believe.

There are, of course, plenty of cases of powerful people in the US (and everywhere) exploiting and stirring up divides among the have-nots. That doesn't mean you can write the entire history of the United States in terms of such divides; it's never that simple.

Trying to write the history of a large country as "The conspiracy by X to oppress Y" suppresses so much detail and so many facts that it's foolish.

[Eulogy]

Look at Libya: they basically had little choice but to have a revolution, although it remains to be seen whether the new government will be better than Gadzooks.

[SVPD]

It does matter whether it is water soluble. Mechanical action alone has an incredibly hard time shifting it compared to chemicals it's soluble in. The stuff is effectively "sticky" in that respect, much like trying to wash off grease with water alone. Want a simple proof that can be conducted in your own home?

Get the strongest chilli peppers you can lay your hands on, the chemical that makes chilli hot is the active ingredient in pepper spray. I suggest a habanero pepper for the best comparison even though it's chemically about 1/50th the heat of pepper spray. Now, try eating it raw. See how long it takes with just water to stop your mouth from burning through mechanical action. Once you're done with that, try it again with a chemical it is soluble in. For one that isnt toxic, but still way more effective than water a good choice is milk. Now you appreciate the difference...

I find it rather frightening that someone as fucking retarded about the chemical weapons they're using is actually given any power and authority SPVD. Any chance you might throw yourself off something tall for the benefit of the gene pool?

On a more serious note, what retard is it that trains the folk using pepper spray over there and tells you water is the go-to solution for it? Fucking shampoo would be a better option by far.

Hey dumbass.. No one is claiming that it wouldn't wash away faster with a chemical that it actually is soluble in. That isn't the issue.

The fact remains that water is perfectly adequate for decontamination, is readily available almost anywhere, costs practically nothing, and is completely safe.

Second, you worthless dipshit, I specifically mentioned that baby shampoo does help, but it's not necessary to decontaminate someone. More importantly, since the active ingredient isn't simply sprayed in unadulterated form directly onto the person, but can be in one of a number of carrier modes such as foam, gel, spray, or stream, (which water readily pushes off your face) trying to compare it to simply eating a pepper is totally idiotic.. not to mention the fact that if you use running water over he face, like you're supposed to, that creates a lot more mechanical action than you can inside your mouth since you can't easily just run water inside your mouth. The best you could do would be to swish the water around which would just tend to move the stuff around inside your mouth.

No one needs your "simple proofs that can be conducted in your own home". Moreover, I know vastly more about chemical weapons of ALL types than your worthless journalism-majoring ass. The fact that you seriously proposed your silly pepper test above is proof positive of the fact that you're just trying to sound intelligent on a subject of whih you are completely ignorant.

What's frightening is that you think sitting there on the internet, reading about this shit, and then pontificating about the chemistry of it as if you actually had a clue what the fuck you are talking about is somehow a substitute for proper training. But no, in your little fantasy world, you somehow know better than people who are properly trained on how to use this stuff, including not just me, but instructors and manufacturers - not to mention that my instructors and I have all actually been exposed to the shit. Why don't you go hand out with all the idiots that contested Mike on science and engineering issues; your little "amateur study" on this issue puts you on about the same ground discussing this as they were with their silly "independant study" of physics when arguing with him.

[SVPD]

ITT: We learn that Capsaicin isn't water soluble.

Seriously, all water is going to do is spread the "Oh, fuck! BURNING!" around. There's a pretty good reason why fliers telling you to use a solution of Malox are floating about. Apparently the dumb hippies are more savvy about chemistry then the flatfoots dousing people in pepper spray are. Who knew...

Again, substances other than water can indeed help decontaminate faster. Water does not just "spread it around", however; the point of it is to get the vast majority of the contaminate off your face. This greatly reduces how long it will keep affecting you.

When I got exposed to it, I took 3 showers later that day. The following day, I felt no re-activation effects. Some of my classmates that didn't want to do that DID feel it again when their pores opened and they started sweating. Nowhere near the levels of the initial exposur, but they noticed.

[Mr. Coffee]

O'rly...

Capsaicin is not soluble in water, and even large volumes of water will not wash it off. Victims are generally encouraged to blink vigorously in order to encourage tears, which will help flush the irritant from the eyes.

A formal study of five often-recommended treatments for skin pain (Maalox, 2% lidocaine gel, baby shampoo, milk, or water) concluded that:[15][16]

"...there was no significant difference in pain relief provided by five different treatment regimens. Time after exposure appeared to be the best predictor for decrease in pain..."

Dilute Chlorine Bleach has been used with very good results in ER situations for external use only (non-occular application). A 1 part to 5 part water solution is recommended. Using contact lens wetting solution seems to help occular relief.

To avoid rubbing the spray into the skin, thereby prolonging the burning sensation, and in order to not spread the compound to other parts of the body, victims should try to avoid touching affected areas. There are also wipes, manufactured[17] for the express purpose of serving to decontaminate someone who has received a dose of pepper spray. Many ambulance services and emergency departments use baby shampoo to remove the spray and with generally good effect. Some of the OC and CS will remain in the respiratory system, but a recovery of vision and the coordination of the eyes can be expected within 7 to 15 minutes.[18]

Some "triple-action" pepper sprays also contain "tear gas" (CS gas), which can be neutralized with sodium metabisulfite (Campden tablets, used in homebrewing), though it, too, is not water soluble and needs to be washed off using the same procedure as for pepper spray.

Seriously, what part of "not water soluble" isn't transferring through that thick fucking skull of yours? Water doesn't do shit, it isn't even very useful for removing capsaicin, much less making the burning sensation stop. You'd be better off dunking your head in a bucket full of tequila, it'd actually do something about the capsiacin and being drunk will probably lessen the amount of pain your in.

[Keevan_Colton]

So, have you done chemistry at a university level? Because, guess what asshole, while I eventually opted for a degree in journalism, I have. I personally felt that it might be a good idea for people with a grasp of science to be involved in journalism to help redress some of the bullshit that flourishes. Thanks for reminding me why that's needed.

You've demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the nature of the chemical weapon being used here and its properties. Water does jack shit with regards to alleviating pepper spray.

There are a lot of oils that water does not help to remove. This is why we have solvents to remove them. Try and degrease an engine using water and see how far that will get you. This is a similar situation in terms of the chemistry and physics involved.

As for the simple kitchen experiment. The chemical which induces the inflammation in pepper spray is exactly the same as that which provides the "heat" in chilli. The fact that you cannot understand the similarities between them is proof all by itself that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Either conceed this point or face action on it. Just because you've got a badge and someone was retarded enough to let you play with weapons does not mean you have the slightest understanding of how they work.

[Kamakazie Sith]

If it comes down to 'possible splash damage and the identities of those responsible bared to the world' versus not having the identities at all, I'd pick the former every time. Abuse of the public trust is, for me, an absolutely huge thing, and something that needs to be viciously eradicated at every turn. Ideally, the justice system does the job, and does it promptly. If that's not the case, better someone unauthorized releasing the information than no one at all.

I don't know if people just aren't paying attention but releasing the names of those responsible is NOT the issue and this has been repeated several times. It is releasing their private information that is the issue such as addresses, SSNs, and other information that you or anyone else does not need to call for the offending officers resignation and prosecution. This is what Anonymous does except en mass.

Source

Along with the IACP data, Anonymous revealed 1000 names and passwords from the Boston Police Patrolmen’s Association; 1000 names, ranks, social security numbers, addresses, phone numbers from the Alabama law enforcement systems; and the full contact database Matrix Group, a web development agency serving government websites.

Anonymous does not deserve your praise or that of anyone else that truly believes in civil rights.

Also, belatedly as all hell, KS: There will always be people who use various and assorted laws as a shield in an unintended fashion. Right now, it's all manner of assorted laws being used to suppress the right of free assembly and speech. In your alternate hate-group scenario, it's free assembly being used to harass legitimate businesses/interests. Given that one's being done by hate groups and one's being done by deliberately-nonviolent protesters, I think it's far more likely that the assorted hate groups you mentioned will break something a good deal less ambiguous before long. Once that happens, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, and you're free to use violence to suppress a violent protest.

It may be likely it also may not be likely. Just because a hate group is blocking off a business peacefully doesn't mean they have the right to do. Now, this isn't the case with a majority of the OWS protesters.

[Formless]

Nitpick: capsacin and tear gas are not the same things. Tear gas can be composed of a number of irritating chemicals, often CS as mentioned in Coffee's quote. Capsacin can break down due to heat while you are trying to store it, but it also won't cause chemical burns because it stimulates pain receptors directly. In fact, they even use the stuff as a long term topical pain reliever at doses as high or higher than found in pepper spray because believe it or not burnout is a real phenomenon-- it means your nerves have depleted their supply of "GODDAMN HOT" neurotransmitter.

The thing is? The only one of these chemicals that is even slightly water soluble that I know of is CR gas, and the US doesn't use that shit because its suspected to be a carcinogen.

[White Haven]

Two points I was trying to make that appear to have slipped by, KS.

First, while I'd prefer that the police themselves divulge the relevant identities without collateral damage, IF IT BECOMES A CHOICE between no identities and WAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION outed by Anonymous, I'd pick the latter every time. It's not my first choice, but allowing this sort of shit to slip under the radar is more of a problem, in my opinion.

Second, either way, someone is hiding behind a law and using it in an unintended fashion. Either laws intended to suppress malicious protests are being used to suppress nonmalicious protests (OWS), or laws intended to allow nonmalicious protests are being used to shield malicious protests. Neither situation is good, but one situation doesn't result in riot police gassing and beating nonviolent protesters, so it's a real easy choice from where I sit.

[SVPD]

So, have you done chemistry at a university level? Because, guess what asshole, while I eventually opted for a degree in journalism, I have. I personally felt that it might be a good idea for people with a grasp of science to be involved in journalism to help redress some of the bullshit that flourishes. Thanks for reminding me why that's needed.

Yes, as a matter of fact I have.

You've demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the nature of the chemical weapon being used here and its properties. Water does jack shit with regards to alleviating pepper spray.

Actually, no, water does help because water removes the carrier agent. That's the point of it. It is not supposed to alleviate the pain of what is already there. However, I was incorrect about the other treatment regimes (and so were you); None of them help any more than water does; time is what alleviates the symptoms.

Forty-nine volunteer, adult law enforcement trainees were exposed to OC during a routine training exercise and were randomized to one of five treatment groups (aluminum hydroxide-magnesium hydroxide [Maalox], 2% lidocaine gel, baby shampoo, milk, or water).

CONCLUSION: In this study, there was no significant difference in pain relief provided by five different treatment regimens. Time after exposure appeared to be the best predictor for decrease in pain.

There are a lot of oils that water does not help to remove. This is why we have solvents to remove them. Try and degrease an engine using water and see how far that will get you. This is a similar situation in terms of the chemistry and physics involved.

Except that it is not a similar situation in regards to either the chemistry or physics. Again, the point of the water is to remove the carrier agent; and with it, the excess OC that would greatly prolong the effects. The OC that is already acting is thereby exposed to the air and can begin to alleviate.

You are demonstrating not only a complete lack of understanding of the physics and chemistry of the situation, you are also either ignoring or unable to understand what I'm saying - once agian demonstrating you have no business posting on adult topics.

As for the simple kitchen experiment. The chemical which induces the inflammation in pepper spray is exactly the same as that which provides the "heat" in chilli. The fact that you cannot understand the similarities between them is proof all by itself that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

I already pointed out that it was the same chemical in my initial post, moron. The fact that you have totally ignored that proves once again that you are just trolling and attempting to score points.

Either concede this point or face action on it. Just because you've got a badge and someone was retarded enough to let you play with weapons does not mean you have the slightest understanding of how they work.

You will take no action whatsoever against me on this, or I will lodge an official complaint that you have engaged in discussion and then attempted to use moderator power to intimidate me. I will not concede anything; I have given evidence as to why I am correct, both from formal training and from a cited source. Moreover, that same source demonstrates that you have no idea what you are talking about; contrary to your assertions other solvents do NOT work any better than water; thus, water is perfectly adequate for the purpose of mechanical removal of excess contaminate and carrier agent.

Just because you sat in a chemistry class at one point and someone gave you a green name does not mean you know what you are talking about, especially when you are talking to someone who has formal training on the subject. You will now concede this argument, or I will make an official complaint.

[SVPD]

Seriously, what part of "not water soluble" isn't transferring through that thick fucking skull of yours? Water doesn't do shit, it isn't even very useful for removing capsaicin, much less making the burning sensation stop. You'd be better off dunking your head in a bucket full of tequila, it'd actually do something about the capsiacin and being drunk will probably lessen the amount of pain your in.

I'm going to explain this one more time, since you, and everyone else, are apparently not paying attention:

Water does not alleviate the burning sensation, except to mask it while the water is actually flowing. What it does is to push off the carrier agent, such as gel, foam, or something else, and with it excess, so that air and time can begin to lessen the effects of the OC that is actually affecting you. I cited an article in response KC that discusses that other common treatment regimes don't work either.

OC spray is never pure OC; it's always in some sort of carrier agent. Different agents have different behaviors, advantages, and disadvantages.

You guys are harping on this "not water soluble" thing as if it were some sort of major issue, despite the fact that none of you seemed to know that any of these other methods of treatment work any better. Frankly, it's a little suspicious that pepper spray is all of a sudden such a big deal when it's OWS protestors getting hit with it.

[Formless]

Why the fuck does the carrier agent even matter? YOU HAVE AN IRRITANT IN YOU GODDAMN EYES AND IT ISN'T GOING ANYWHERE. Are you some kind of retard, or is there something you know that you aren't sharing, SVPD? Oh, wait, you just said yourself that it won't take away the pain.



You know what, just go smash a jalapeno in your eyes and go away you trolling fucktard.

[Lord Zentei]

Why the fuck does the carrier agent even matter?

Presumably if the carrier agent is removed, any extra pepper is removed too. This would prevent more pepper getting into the affected area.

[Formless]

But that's shifting the goalposts. SVPD's initial assertion is that you don't need antacids to decontaminate the affected area and that "water will do the job by itself" through "mechanical action". This is flat wrong, but he refuses to concede and own up to his idiocy. And this is after he admitted that only time will dull the pain-- the point everyone is trying to make.

[Block]

Why the fuck does the carrier agent even matter?

Presumably if the carrier agent is removed, any extra pepper is removed too. This would prevent more pepper getting into the affected area.

Exactly why they have us get hosed off after we get CS gassed in the military.

[SVPD]

But that's shifting the goalposts. SVPD's initial assertion is that you don't need antacids to decontaminate the affected area and that "water will do the job by itself" through "mechanical action". This is flat wrong, but he refuses to concede and own up to his idiocy. And this is after he admitted that only time will dull the pain-- the point everyone is trying to make.

Water will decontaminate the affected area nicely, and you don't need anything else. "Decontaminate" means "Take away the excess", not "make the burning stop." The point of decontamination is to get rid of excess, so that it doesn't get spread to unaffected areas or replace the stuff that's already working.

You guys are focusing on dulling the pain, which is not the issue. I'm not "refusing to concede" or anything like that. The fact is that you guys have constructed this standard of dulling the pain arbitrarily and are demanding that water do that, because you assume that's what I meant, when it wasn't.

The fact is that you guys simply do not know what you are talking about.

[Formless]

Water will decontaminate the affected area nicely, and you don't need anything else. "Decontaminate" means "Take away the excess",

de·con·tam·i·nate (dkn-tm-nt)
tr.v. de·con·tam·i·nat·ed, de·con·tam·i·nat·ing, de·con·tam·i·nates
1. To eliminate contamination in.
2. To make safe by eliminating poisonous or otherwise harmful substances, such as noxious chemicals or radioactive material.

Wrong again, idiot. Now you're trying to redefine terms of the english language. How utterly pathetic.

[SVPD]

Why the fuck does the carrier agent even matter? YOU HAVE AN IRRITANT IN YOU GODDAMN EYES AND IT ISN'T GOING ANYWHERE. Are you some kind of retard, or is there something you know that you aren't sharing, SVPD? Oh, wait, you just said yourself that it won't take away the pain.



You know what, just go smash a jalapeno in your eyes and go away you trolling fucktard.

No shit you do, you fucking moron. That's the way it's supposed to incapacitate. That isn't either A) under debate or B) a problem - or at least it wasn't a problem for the bumper crop of hypocrites on this board until it was OWS getting sprayed with it, at which point we got a lot of yelling and screaming about pepper spray, as if pepper spray was somehow the problem and not the cases in which it was used properly and those where it wasn't. One wonders if we'd see the same level of concern if it were the Tea Party getting sprayed.

The reason it matters if you wash away the carrier agent is that it has a fucking lot more of the agent in it , and it keeps the air from getting to the affected area. That's why it's important to get the carrier agent off; it greatly reduces the chance of the contamination spreading to other parts of the body or other people, and allows time and air to do their job in making the actual burning go away.

[SVPD]

Water will decontaminate the affected area nicely, and you don't need anything else. "Decontaminate" means "Take away the excess",

de·con·tam·i·nate (dkn-tm-nt)
tr.v. de·con·tam·i·nat·ed, de·con·tam·i·nat·ing, de·con·tam·i·nates
1. To eliminate contamination in.
2. To make safe by eliminating poisonous or otherwise harmful substances, such as noxious chemicals or radioactive material.

Wrong again, idiot. Now you're trying to redefine terms of the english language. How utterly pathetic.

No, fuckhead, I'm not trying to do any such thing. Decontamination is the term used in instructional materials when training to use this stuff.

Furthermore, you are eliminating a large amount of the chemical when you wash away the carrier agent. I never claimed it was a complete decontamination that would also eliminate all burning sensations. Quit with the semantic nitpicking.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I think you're saying 'decontaiminate' when you mean 'dilute' which are two different things. When you've got a chemical irritant in your eyes, you just flush it with a ton of water to dilute.

[Kryten]

I think you're saying 'decontaiminate' when you mean 'dilute' which are two different things. When you've got a chemical irritant in your eyes, you just flush it with a ton of water to dilute.

Except it doesn't dilute, because it isn't water soluble.