Penn State would rather football than justice for child rape

[Broomstick]

If there are allegations and you do nothing but report it to flunkies and then follow up with nothing, you are a despicable coward and anybody supporting him is as well.

If I recall correctly, coaches, like teachers and certain other officials, are "mandated reporters" who are legally required to pass on reports of abuse (of any sort) to the police. Failure to do so is, in fact, a crime in the US (probably other places as well, I can only hope so). It's more than just cowardly, it's criminal.

[Broomstick]

Okay, so crime committed, crime committed, and crime committed. I'm a little bit puzzled regarding the public conversation over 'what should we do?' Prosecute, prosecute, and prosecute. How is there any question?

It's because all too many people can't reconcile the notion that the same person can do things that are great good AND do things that are terrible. Society wants everyone to be a sinner OR a saint and doesn't have a narrative for those encompassing both.

Yes, Paterno did some great things. He also did a terrible thing by failing to act properly in response to the reports of abuse/rape.

[Kanastrous]

The problem of punishing people for not reporting something is that you have to find out about it and then prove they knew.

This is true, but it's true of -any- crime, at all. And since we are discussing a particular series of crimes which we already know -were- known to the perpetrator's associates (if we're going to accept the reports so far), providing that proof doesn't seem to be an issue.

Encouraging people to come forward and breaking down the cultural resistance to talking about it has been helpful with other sex crimes.

Maybe I'm focusing too narrowly on the case at hand, but it doesn't appear that the problem here was so much a reluctance to talk about a crime in and of itself, but a desire to protect the widely-respected (hell, venerated) perpetrators.

[Kanastrous]

Yes, Paterno did some great things. He also did a terrible thing by failing to act properly in response to the reports of abuse/rape.

Teasing heliocentrism out of the observational data was a great thing. Promulgating sterile procedure was a great thing. Classifying blood types was a great thing. This guy was effective at winning a large proportion of the games that other people played, under his direction. Ephemeral, dispensible, no-contribution-that-will-matter-in-fifty-much-less-one-hundred-years games.

If that's our standard for 'great things' then perhaps as a society we collectively deserve this kind of thing.

And, I think your characterization is off. He facilitated the anal rape of children. This He also did a terrible thing by failing to act properly business sounds like something I'd expect of a defense attorney, not a neutral observer.

[Stark]

Sure, this case is largely about people looking the other way because football is super, but it we're looking at the actions of the witness and thinking he could have done more, it's important to think about the cultural roadblocks around interfering in these kind of crimes or situations. If he wasn't driven to simply forget about it (by his parents, his school or whatever) it's possible that this would have.come out much sooner.

And proving someone did something isn't he same as provig people saw it. Until someone comes forward you don't even know there's a coverup. Would the kid come forward later if he knew he'd be punished?

[Havok]

If there are allegations and you do nothing but report it to flunkies and then follow up with nothing, you are a despicable coward and anybody supporting him is as well.

If I recall correctly, coaches, like teachers and certain other officials, are "mandated reporters" who are legally required to pass on reports of abuse (of any sort) to the police. Failure to do so is, in fact, a crime in the US (probably other places as well, I can only hope so). It's more than just cowardly, it's criminal.

Obviously not or Paterno would have been arrested.

Sandusky in 2002, was not in the employ of Penn State. The children that he was molesting were not affiliated with Penn State and therefore, not technically their responsibility.

He was given upon his retirement, an office to use and access to the facilities, as a consideration for his years of service to the community and the school, but there was no official connection to the school anymore. Based on that Paterno, legally did what he was supposed to do, even if it were the absolute bare minimum.

This wasn't some creepy guy that kept to himself... He has written well received books, been given medals by congress, and up until last week, was a very positive influence in thousands of young men's lives who were completely blindsided by this. Seeing him with young boys, which in hindsight now, seems like a huge red flag, is nothing that would cause suspicion in people as the man founded The Second Mile which is a children charity group, in 1977.

[Havok]

Sure, this case is largely about people looking the other way because football is super, but it we're looking at the actions of the witness and thinking he could have done more, it's important to think about the cultural roadblocks around interfering in these kind of crimes or situations. If he wasn't driven to simply forget about it (by his parents, his school or whatever) it's possible that this would have.come out much sooner.

And proving someone did something isn't he same as provig people saw it. Until someone comes forward you don't even know there's a coverup. Would the kid come forward later if he knew he'd be punished?

It's less about football and more about The Institution.

There is no doubt someone saw it. That happened in 2002.

[Stark]

Sure, but if you lose the door on people coming forward about things they saw in the past, that doesnt really help.

Is there any indication what his dad said to him? I'd be curious if he was an evil coverup for football guy or just negated what he saw by saying 'are you sure that's what you saw? This is a serious matter'.

[Kanastrous]

I should think one could craft a law mandating that if you come forward at the time of witnessing the crime or at any point thereafter, you are protected from prosecution, but that if it's determined that you had knowledge of such a crime and refused to report it you may be prosecuted. If anything I should think that would encourage a rush to be the -first- to file the report.

[Havok]

Yes, Paterno did some great things. He also did a terrible thing by failing to act properly in response to the reports of abuse/rape.

Teasing heliocentrism out of the observational data was a great thing. Promulgating sterile procedure was a great thing. Classifying blood types was a great thing. This guy was effective at winning a large proportion of the games that other people played, under his direction. Ephemeral, dispensible, no-contribution-that-will-matter-in-fifty-much-less-one-hundred-years games.

If that's our standard for 'great things' then perhaps as a society we collectively deserve this kind of thing.

And, I think your characterization is off. He facilitated the anal rape of children. This He also did a terrible thing by failing to act properly business sounds like something I'd expect of a defense attorney, not a neutral observer.

I'm not going to turn into a defender of Paterno here, but you are going overboard.

JERRY SANDUSKY facilitated the anal rape of children, by finding devious and varied ways to do it for decades. Joe Paterno is not some omniscient entity. He is now an 85 year old man, and in 2002 was 76. If you know the situation that he has been in for years, as it has been reported, he is an isolated state and argued to be out of touch with pretty much anything but football and it's directly related issues.

And to say that Paterno isn't considered a great man, I will point you to the thousands of people that profess their love and respect for him because of the positive influence that he has been in their lives over the course of 60 plus years. It's only about football to idiots. Note as well, those weren't football players rioting last night.

And right, no one is going to remember great football coaches and players in 50 or 100 years because it was just a "game"

[Stark]

Then you get into thorny questions around 'refusal' and 'witness'. In this case, who would you consider open to this sort of punishment? The faculty?

Edit - at kanastrous

[Havok]

Sure, but if you lose the door on people coming forward about things they saw in the past, that doesnt really help.

Is there any indication what his dad said to him? I'd be curious if he was an evil coverup for football guy or just negated what he saw by saying 'are you sure that's what you saw? This is a serious matter'.

If you guys actually READ the articles and grand jury testimony, you would know what his dad told McQuarrie. He told him to come home. He did what his dad said, then they went to Paterno in the morning, who then went to his technical superiors. They failed to do anything at that point outside of telling Sandusky to not bring little boys to the campus anymore.
Paterno's failure was to trust people that he had known since they were children, one of which oversaw the campus police, therefor having a connection to the actual police, along with not following up with the outcome.

[Kanastrous]

Then you get into thorny questions around 'refusal' and 'witness'. In this case, who would you consider open to this sort of punishment? The faculty?

Edit - at kanastrous

I would nominate any eyewitness who failed to go directly to law enforcement, as well as any person in the university's chain of administration who was informed by that eyewitness, or by another agent of the university acting to transmit that information within university management, at the expense of law enforcement. I certainly wouldn't propose prosecuting any person with neither first- nor second-hand knowledge of the assaults, or an eyewitness report of any of them.

[Stark]

This leads to one of those cultural roadblocks - with some crimes, people prefer to keep it 'inside'. They don't want to take it to the police if they think it can be dealt with 'internally' for whatever reason. This isn't just true of sex crimes, but of things like corruption or anything embarassing. That attitude leads to people reporting to their superiors rather than law enforcement (probably not helped by attitudes toward law enforcement either), which creates the possiblity for abuse.

That said, it's my understanding that campus police are 'proper' police, and not private security guys. If you're prosecuting people on their reporting of crimes, you would probably also want to prosecute the police for the way they follow up on crimes or allocate cases (or whatever). If someone reports a crime to campus police, should they really be expected to report to other police too? Is it normal or good for campus police to be so closely linked to the business of the university they're supposed to serve?

[Havok]

New disgusting possible development...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/1 ... nk3|111562

[Kanastrous]

I'm not going to turn into a defender of Paterno here, but you are going overboard.

JERRY SANDUSKY facilitated the anal rape of children, by finding devious and varied ways to do it for decades.

No, Sandusky perpetrated the rapes. As in, did the raping. Paterno facilitated the rapes, by providing space in which they could continue to happen, and - much more to the point - doing so after having been informed by an eyewitness that this was going on. That's what 'facilitation' is: providing the perpetrator with assistance in committing his crimes. The degree to which Paterno may be a nice guy, a wonderful role-model, whatever, is not relevant. He did what he did: heard an eyewitness report of child-rape and failed to act in a responsible or even by most any definition moral manner.

Joe Paterno is not some omniscient entity.

Thing is, you don't need to be omniscient when an eyewitness walks up to you and describes what he has seen happening, on your watch. If we had no reason to think that Paterno was aware of what happened, we would not be having this conversation. No, he's not omniscient. He doesn't need to be, to fulfill his responsibilities here.

He is now an 85 year old man, and in 2002 was 76. If you know the situation that he has been in for years, as it has been reported, he is an isolated state and argued to be out of touch with pretty much anything but football and it's directly related issues.

Making a decision not to report the rape of children excusable? Sorry, 'buried in football thoughts' is not an acceptable reason for his inaction.

And to say that Paterno isn't considered a great man, I will point you to the thousands of people that profess their love and respect for him because of the positive influence that he has been in their lives over the course of 60 plus years.

Popular <> great. Do you -really- believe that anyone save die-hard sports fans or sports historians will give a tin shit what his record is, in fifty or one hundred years? Can you point to one -single- way in which mankind will be better off, because he was good at coaching football? Really? It's a fucking game. The fact that a number of fans choose to assign importance to it doesn't mean it has the slightest practical importance outside the world of athletics. Which against the backdrop of human history is an absolutely fucking insignificant little world, by any practical or rational judgment.

It's only about football to idiots. Note as well, those weren't football players rioting last night.

Yeah, they're a sad sub-species of humanity who confuse someone else's success at chasing an inflated pigskin with their own identities. Not that they aren't welcome to that, if it makes them happy.

And right, no one is going to remember great football coaches and players in 50 or 100 years because it was just a "game"

People obsessed with football may remember, just as people obsessed with badminton can probably tell you all about the great badminton players of 1911. So what? Will that save a life, create a product, open a field of science, lift a kilogram of anything to orbit, or achieve anything of the slightest practical value at all?

I don't begrudge people enjoying their sports; hell, I have interests that others would no doubt find silly and/or pointless. But I don't try to promote said interests as being somehow more important, than they are.

[Havok]

This leads to one of those cultural roadblocks - with some crimes, people prefer to keep it 'inside'. They don't want to take it to the police if they think it can be dealt with 'internally' for whatever reason. This isn't just true of sex crimes, but of things like corruption or anything embarassing. That attitude leads to people reporting to their superiors rather than law enforcement (probably not helped by attitudes toward law enforcement either), which creates the possiblity for abuse.

That said, it's my understanding that campus police are 'proper' police, and not private security guys. If you're prosecuting people on their reporting of crimes, you would probably also want to prosecute the police for the way they follow up on crimes or allocate cases (or whatever). If someone reports a crime to campus police, should they really be expected to report to other police too? Is it normal or good for campus police to be so closely linked to the business of the university they're supposed to serve?

No, campus police are just that. They bring in real cops when things get beyond what they can deal with like rape, murder, drugs. But they have direct lines to the police, and the person that oversees them, should have them on speed dial and be able to coordinate with them with no fuss.

What it is looking like is that the two guys that have been actually arrested, gave Sandusky his coverup for him to retire quietly in '99.
I'm also beginning to question the local police's involvement in this as well as the coincidental disappearance of the DA, who was declared dead this past summer who was supposedly prepared to prosecute Sandusky before his disappearance.

[FSTargetDrone]

Screw Paterno. He deserves to be stripped of all records and accomplishments for this great moral cowardice.

As someone who attended Penn State, I think, firstly, the rest of the season needs to be cancelled. The entire football program disassembled and any other people involved in the coverup removed. Clean house, top to bottom. Remove his name from the library. Remove his statue. An example must be made. He failed to act and perhaps a dozen or more suffered for it. Also, anyone found to have caused serious damage in the protest riot needs to be expelled.

[Tasoth]

I have to agree with the sports writer in that article. Mark Madden's show is on weekdays in Pittsburgh and he likes to make inflammatory remarks and stir up emotions. So I won't say immediately that there was never any pimping of boys out from The Second Mile, but I am going to wait for more information before I believe it.

[Kanastrous]

As someone who attended Penn State, I think, firstly, the rest of the season needs to be cancelled. The entire football program dissembled and any other people involved in the coverup removed. Clean house, top to bottom. Remove his name from the library. Remove his statue. An example must be made. He failed to act and perhaps a dozen or more suffered for it. Also, anyone found to have caused serious damage in the protest riot needs to be expelled.

As someone who attended Syracuse U., I concur.

[FSTargetDrone]

Why hasn't Mike McQueary been bounced out yet? Apparently he will be at the game this weekend, on the sidelines.

Last Man Standing

Mike McQueary says that he saw Jerry Sandusky sexually assault a child. Why does he still have a job at Penn State?

By Josh Levin|Posted Thursday, Nov. 10, 2011, at 6:00 PM ET

On March 1, 2002, Mike McQueary allegedly walked into the Penn State locker room and saw Jerry Sandusky raping a young boy. According to the grand jury report in the Sandusky case, McQueary—then a 28-year-old graduate assistant for the Nittany Lions football team—“left immediately, distraught.” McQueary then called his father, who advised him to tell coach Joe Paterno what he’d seen. He did as his father advised, and a short while later, he told Penn State’s athletic director Tim Curley and administrator Gary Schultz as well. A few weeks later, the report explains, Curley told McQueary “that Sandusky’s keys to the locker room were taken away and that the incident had been reported to The Second Mile,” Sandusky’s nonprofit for at-risk children. Until he testified before the grand jury, that’s where the story ended for Mike McQueary. He was never interviewed by Penn State police, and he never reported Sandusky’s actions to any other agency.

In the week since we’ve learned of Sandusky’s horrible crimes and Penn State’s negligence in reporting them, almost everyone who could conceivably have done anything to stop the alleged child molester has resigned or been dismissed. Paterno is out. So are Curley and Schultz and Penn State President Graham Spanier. But Mike McQueary, now Penn State’s receivers coach, still has a job, and as of Thursday afternoon, he’s supposed to coach in Saturday’s football game against Nebraska. How you feel about McQueary’s job status depends on how you choose to parcel out blame. Do you find the most fault with a man who witnessed a disgusting criminal act and didn’t report it to the police? Or do you believe it’s fair to punish those at the top of Penn State’s chain of command most harshly?

Mike McQueary made the wrong choice. He—like so many others at Penn State and elsewhere—could have helped put an end to Sandusky’s abuse many years ago. Why didn’t he? He was the low man on the football staff, a grad assistant making little money whose best hope of advancement was to ingratiate himself to his superiors. McQueary was also a former Penn State starting quarterback who grew up in State College, Pa. He played for, worked for, and no doubt idolized Joe Paterno and perhaps Jerry Sandusky, too. When he allegedly saw Sandusky raping a boy in the shower, McQueary shouldn’t have just called the police—he should have rescued the boy. But I can understand why someone in his position, with his background, would have run out of the room immediately and called his father.
Advertisement

In the grand jury report, there’s one more instance in which a low-level employee didn’t act as bravely as he could have. In 2000, a temp janitor named Jim Calhoun allegedly saw Sandusky—a man he didn’t recognize—performing oral sex on a boy in the Penn State showers. According to one of Calhoun’s colleagues, the janitor, who was “upset and crying,” said that he had “fought in the [Korean] war … seen people with their guts blowed out, arms dismembered … I just witnessed something in there I’ll never forget.” Calhoun told his immediate supervisor what he’d seen, and the supervisor “told him to whom he should report the incident, if he chose to report it.” Calhoun never made an official report, and he wasn’t able to testify in front of the grand jury because he now suffers from dementia.

As Luke O’Brien pointed out on Deadspin, what happened at Penn State is a modern version of the Kitty Genovese case, the 1964 rape and murder in which the victim’s neighbors didn’t call the police. The Penn State case, though, seems even worse: While it’s unclear how much Genovese’s neighbors saw and heard, at least two people allegedly saw Sandusky sexually assault a young boy and many more heard about it secondhand. As a consequence, this seems like a better example of “Genovese syndrome” than the attack that inspired that coinage. Nobody at Penn State, from the janitor to the university president, stood up and did the right thing. Those at the top of the school’s org chart were protecting the institution, the program, and their own high-status positions. Those at the bottom were protecting their livelihoods, likely hoping that someone else would be courageous enough to do what they could not.

In the end, it’s possible to comprehend Mike McQueary’s actions but impossible to rationalize them. Though turning in your superiors is a very difficult thing to do—there’s a federal Whistleblower Protection Act for good reason—in this case it was the only thing to do. McQueary has yet to talk publicly; his father told the New York Times that “it’s eating [McQueary] up not to be able to tell his side, but he’s under investigation by the grand jury.” No matter what he eventually says, this fact remains: For almost 10 years after McQueary allegedly saw Sandusky raping a child in the shower, the former Penn State defensive coordinator had access to the school’s football facilities. McQueary, like Paterno and Penn State’s administrators, didn’t have just one chance to turn Sandusky in. He could have gone to the police at any time. And yet, he watched as the old coach used the team’s weight room as recently as last week.

So, does McQueary deserve as much blame as Penn State President Graham Spanier? Probably not. Does he deserve a significant share of it, having stood by when a predator could have been put away? Absolutely.

[Gaidin]

No, campus police are just that. They bring in real cops when things get beyond what they can deal with like rape, murder, drugs. But they have direct lines to the police, and the person that oversees them, should have them on speed dial and be able to coordinate with them with no fuss.

What it is looking like is that the two guys that have been actually arrested, gave Sandusky his coverup for him to retire quietly in '99.
I'm also beginning to question the local police's involvement in this as well as the coincidental disappearance of the DA, who was declared dead this past summer who was supposedly prepared to prosecute Sandusky before his disappearance.

I think that depends on what University you're at. Some of them are cities unto themselves and have a legit police force though for nothing more critical than patrol(at least mine did). If a detective was needed, it went to the city's PD.

[Havok]

Screw Paterno. He deserves to be stripped of all records and accomplishments for this great moral cowardice.

As someone who attended Penn State, I think, firstly, the rest of the season needs to be cancelled. The entire football program disassembled and any other people involved in the coverup removed. Clean house, top to bottom. Remove his name from the library. Remove his statue. An example must be made. He failed to act and perhaps a dozen or more suffered for it. Also, anyone found to have caused serious damage in the protest riot needs to be expelled.

Ridiculous. You are going to punish thousands of people because of this? Everyone that had a part in this has been arrested or fired, with the exception of McQuarry, who is probably protected under whistleblower laws, they all also stand to face further charges and civil suits.

On top of that, we still don't know exactly what happened. We assume that the grand jury finding is correct, but what if it comes out that McQuarry changed his story, and when he did report it to Paterno he was vague and in no way indicated actual sexual acts?

You can't just punish the rest of the coaches, students and players that had ZERO to do with this.

[Dark Hellion]

Could we possibly have a thread about a serious issue such as this and not have it be about immature advancement of personal agendas? It would be nice to read an N&P thread and not be assaulted by massive amounts of fucking stupid.

Anyway, here is the Pennsylvania Mandated Reporter Laws

§ 42.42. Suspected child abuse—mandated reporting requirements.

(a) General rule. Under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6311 (relating to persons required to report suspected child abuse), licensees who, in the course of the employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall report or cause a report to be made to the Department of Public Welfare when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse.

(b) Staff members of public or private agencies, institutions and facilities. Licensees who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the licensee, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with subsections (a), (c) and (d).

(c) Reporting procedure. Reports of suspected child abuse shall be made by telephone and by written report.

(1) Oral reports. Oral reports of suspected child abuse shall be made immediately by telephone to ChildLine, (800) 932-0313.

(2) Written reports. Written reports shall be made within 48 hours after the oral report is made by telephone. Written reports shall be made on forms available from a county children and youth social service agency.

(d) Written reports. Written reports shall be made in the manner and on forms prescribed by the Department of Public Welfare. The following information shall be included in the written reports, if available:

(1) The names and addresses of the child and the parents or other person responsible for the care of the child, if known.

(2) Where the suspected abuse occurred.

(3) The age and sex of the subjects of the report.

(4) The nature and extent of the suspected child abuse including any evidence of prior abuse to the child or siblings of the child.

(5) The name and relationship of the persons responsible for causing the suspected abuse, if known, and any evidence of prior abuse by those persons.

(6) Family composition.

(7) The source of the report.

(8) The person making the report and where that person can be reached.

(9) The actions taken by the reporting source, including the taking of photographs and X-rays, removal or keeping of the child or notifying the medical examiner or coroner.

(10) Other information which the Department of Public Welfare may require by regulation.

So, it appears that Schultz and Spanier failed in their responsibility and as such would be punishable as follows.

§ 42.47. Noncompliance.

(a) Disciplinary action. A licensee who willfully fails to comply with the reporting requirements in § § 42.42—42.44 (relating to suspected child abuse—mandated reporting requirements; photographs, medical tests and X-rays of child subject to report; and suspected death as a result of child abuse—mandated reporting requirement) will be subject to disciplinary action under section 16 of the act (63 P. S. § 1516).

(b) Criminal penalties. Under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6319 (relating to penalties for failure to report), a licensee who is required to report a case of suspected child abuse who willfully fails to do so commits a summary offense for the first violation and a misdemeanor of the third degree for a second or subsequent violation.

The punishment for a Summary Offense is up to 90 days in jail while the punishment for a third degree misdemeanor is up to a year.

It should be noted that if Shultz is not a properly designated agent then Paterno may also be guilty.

By the way this took like 15 minutes of google to find out so no one has any excuse for playing the ignorance card.

[Havok]

"that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse."
None of the children Sandusky brought to the campus were "coming before them in their professional or official capacity". I.e., they were not students at Penn State.

This is why Paterno was not charged or arrested. The other two were arrested for perjury, not for failing to report the incident. Under Pennsylvania law, what needed to happen has happened.